Speculation: Services which don't exist yet but likely to in future

[Jorge Da Silva]

What suggests that? National Express don't see Manchester to Leicester as an untapped market for coaches and they aren't constrained by awkward junctions on the rail network. The road network (ie A50) allows for a coach to directly link Manchester and Leicester if there was untapped demand.


How many Shrewsbury to London services are there a day? They are in marginal time at best.

London to Shrewsbury is about 2tpd

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Feb 2022 ==

Both are fairly large cities and urban areas so there will be reasonable numbers of people making the complete journey both for leisure and commuting purposes.

The argument about changing at Sheffield being sufficient could be applied to a number of existing direct routes which have been created in the last 20 years; Shrewsbury to London can be done with a simple change at Wolverhampton or Birmingham, so why have London trains running through from Shrewsbury at all when the units could be utilized by strengthening the London-Birmingham-Scotland service?

There is no case for Manchester to Leicester service. Plus the Shrewsbury service is 2tpd thats all. Not going to make any difference to Scotland route end of. The difference with the other routes from Sheffield is that there is demand for a stand alone service for each of them, im not convinced there is enough Manchester to Leicester demand for a new service

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Feb 2022 ==

Services from Liverpool to Nottingham (and Norwich) has more than enough demand in fact its often overcrowded. Liverpool to Cleethorpes (currently Manchester to Cleethorpes) has demand as it will provide a second link to Liverpool from Sheffield which is needed. Pre-Covid Manchester to Cleethorpes was very overcrowded but with it being 6 coaches now that wouldn’t be a problem. Plus it provides the only link between Sheffield and Cleethorpes via Doncaster which is needed, and the Manchester to Sheffield end has enough demand for sure. The point with Leicester to Manchester is that does it justify an extra service a full hourly path?.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

How about revamping the St. Pancras to Sheffield service by extending the trains to Barnsley and terminating there? Barnsley with a population in excess of 100,000 merits a direct service to London but is a town strangely neglected by the railway which now urgently needs to win new business.

 

[adrock1976]

I assumed Nuneaton to Leicester was an electrified line.

I think Manchester to Leicester justifies a direct service nonetheless; if the quicker route via the WCML isn't an option then as an extension of the EMR Liverpool-Nottingham service from December, which would also create a new direct service to Derby.

Maybe rather than joining up routes and sending existing trains to Leicester, there could be a quality connection at Sheffield to/from the London trains?

As an alternative, concentration on quality connections at Stoke-on-Trent and either Derby/Long Eaton for Manchester - Leicester journeys via Uttoxeter.

Post HS2, depending on the capacity of the junctions at Trent/East Mids Parkway, perhaps a Manchester - Leicester via Stoke, Uttoxeter, and Derby may be worthwhile, calling Stockport, Macclesfield, maybe Congleton, Stoke-on-Trent, Uttoxeter, Derby, Long Eaton, East Mids Parkway, Loughborough, Barrow upon Soar, Sileby, Syston, and Leicester. This would double the frequency at the Ivanhoe Project Phase I stations, and would compensate Leicester - Derby section when both the London - Sheffield and Nottingham InterCity trains are dropped to every 60 minutes each. Bi mode trains could be used as there are/will be wires Manchester - Stoke, and Derby - Leicester.

 

[geoffk]

Given how the remodelling of Huddersfield as part of TRU only leaves one east facing bay platform, I’d say that it’s likely that there will be an all stations Leeds to Manchester Victoria via Huddersfield all stations service.

or Wakefield to Manchester Victoria (as we used to have and which TPE was suggesting not long ago). Already covered in #28!

 

[cle]

Picc/Vic to Wakefield via Huddersfield is a contender (and yes, did exist!) - would be a lot of diesel under wires by then, but may be bi-modes available.

Solves the loss of bays for the local services, and of course, the Hudds>Wakefield (aka London) connection which needs to exist. Makes sense to merge them for more throughput. And Manchester-Wakefield direct would exist again too, I guess?

 

[cr767055]

How about revamping the St. Pancras to Sheffield service by extending the trains to Barnsley and terminating there? Barnsley with a population in excess of 100,000 merits a direct service to London but is a town strangely neglected by the railway which now urgently needs to win new business.

That's a sensible idea. Given LNER have just introduced direct services between Middlesbrough and Kings Cross, this makes sense. I'd expect new infrastructure, including a bay, would be required at Barnsley given it only has two through platforms.

 

[A S Leib]

Huddersfield and Kings

I think you mean Middlesbrough and King's Cross.

 

[Starmill]

This is only partly true. The market also needs to be grown, and that future market is mostly leisure. We don't want a policy of managed decline.

However easy you and I know walking across from Euston to St Pancras is (though I'm happy walking it at night as a 6' 4" bloke, I wouldn't be were I a 5' woman) crossing London does put people off. This might not be the right service for it, but ways of avoiding London (e.g. the current Southern service) do have value.

This is one of those really funny ones - the bus service from Euston to Kings Cross is actually very good and very easy to use because it doesn't require any crossing of roads. But trying to use the bus the other way is a nightmare! It's quite a walk from the platforms at Kings Cross to the stop on Grays Inn Road and even further from the stop on Tavistock Square to the platforms at Euston, both crossing very busy polluted roads.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is one of those really funny ones - the bus service from Euston to Kings Cross is actually very good and very easy to use because it doesn't require any crossing of roads. But trying to use the bus the other way is a nightmare! It's quite a walk from the platforms at Kings Cross to the stop on Grays Inn Road and even further from the stop on Tavistock Square to the platforms at Euston, both crossing very busy polluted roads.

The trick from KX is to go through the Tube station tunnel, but it is far from obvious.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Manchester - N Wales via Altrincham.

 

[Railcar]

From 2018, a semi-fast service started from Epsom to London Bridge. It moves to the Up Fast leaving Norwood Junction and gets to LBG platforms 12 and 13 to form a xx.25 and xx.55 service theoughout the day. It demonstrates that a fast service to a London terminal from Epsom and the London borough of Sutton is popular. If there were enough paths on the Up and Down Fasts into Victoria from Selhurst then a similar semi-fast from West Croydon to Victoria wuld eliminate the slow drag through Thornton heath, Norbury, Streatham Common, etc

 

[cle]

From 2018, a semi-fast service started from Epsom to London Bridge. It moves to the Up Fast leaving Norwood Junction and gets to LBG platforms 12 and 13 to form a xx.25 and xx.55 service theoughout the day. It demonstrates that a fast service to a London terminal from Epsom and the London borough of Sutton is popular. If there were enough paths on the Up and Down Fasts into Victoria from Selhurst then a similar semi-fast from West Croydon to Victoria wuld eliminate the slow drag through Thornton heath, Norbury, Streatham Common, etc

Sutton also has/had the fast to Clapham Junction services - which aren't that fast but perception of fast is more about number of stops than journey time for many people.

East Croydon covers that fast function for Central Croydon to both termini. West Croydon is more of a local hub station - Croydon to the rest of South London along three lines (Norbury, CP, Forest Hill via LO) and of course Tramlink too.