Peter Sarf
Established Member
Occurs to me that more and more the electrification of the GW and NW will be left high and dry *IF* the intruduction of new stock for Thameslink is delayed. I think this involves a new signalling system so the risk is piling up as it is for crossrail. The WCML never achieved what it was supposed to do so I fear delay or compromise might appear for Thameslink or Crossrail.
The delay for Thameslink has already made it more attractive to order 130 extra coaches for Southern. I wonder what else could be sensibly ordered ?. The reasurance for the ROSCOS is that the newer EMUs will inevitably get used sooner rather than later. The worst that can happen is that older EMUs (508s, 313s) lose residual value but could then be affordable as spares/backup. I am clinging to the ideal that no more DMUs should be built btw.
To support this we really need to get to the point where in the UK we are looking at what to electrify next rather than just whether to electrify at all. I fear that electrification will stutter to a halt after GW, NW and transpennine electrification are complete. History will quite likely repeat itself - instead this time we need a rolling program of electrification. Also we are only now on the brink of having our first domestic high speed rail network in 2026 (linking two cities rather than on the back of international). This will be 40 years after I travelled to the South of France from Paris on their high speed line !. We are not slightly late we are TOTALLY BACKWARD.
I cannot help feeling that our domestic ralway manufacturing industry is handicapped by the perception that they can only cater for the quirky British railway. We exported steam engines when the rest of the world wanted what we had. Since then we have been clinging on to the past. Since the 1960s we continued to build outdated steam engines when our neighbours were switching to electric and diesel traction. We then replaced them early (but after our neighbours). We then only replaced steam with diesel mainly !. We are not yet at the stage we should have been at in the 60s or 70s. We dont have the mentality for a prospective build of EMUs while we can still build them ourselves. And before someone talks about EU rules - dont be a mug.
Any thoughts on what we could usefully build and perhaps more importantly how to achieve a sea change in attitude to electrification ?.
The delay for Thameslink has already made it more attractive to order 130 extra coaches for Southern. I wonder what else could be sensibly ordered ?. The reasurance for the ROSCOS is that the newer EMUs will inevitably get used sooner rather than later. The worst that can happen is that older EMUs (508s, 313s) lose residual value but could then be affordable as spares/backup. I am clinging to the ideal that no more DMUs should be built btw.
To support this we really need to get to the point where in the UK we are looking at what to electrify next rather than just whether to electrify at all. I fear that electrification will stutter to a halt after GW, NW and transpennine electrification are complete. History will quite likely repeat itself - instead this time we need a rolling program of electrification. Also we are only now on the brink of having our first domestic high speed rail network in 2026 (linking two cities rather than on the back of international). This will be 40 years after I travelled to the South of France from Paris on their high speed line !. We are not slightly late we are TOTALLY BACKWARD.
I cannot help feeling that our domestic ralway manufacturing industry is handicapped by the perception that they can only cater for the quirky British railway. We exported steam engines when the rest of the world wanted what we had. Since then we have been clinging on to the past. Since the 1960s we continued to build outdated steam engines when our neighbours were switching to electric and diesel traction. We then replaced them early (but after our neighbours). We then only replaced steam with diesel mainly !. We are not yet at the stage we should have been at in the 60s or 70s. We dont have the mentality for a prospective build of EMUs while we can still build them ourselves. And before someone talks about EU rules - dont be a mug.
Any thoughts on what we could usefully build and perhaps more importantly how to achieve a sea change in attitude to electrification ?.
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(Assuming they'd be based out of Longsight) they could not work in multiple with any Longsight EMUs (323s)
