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SPAD at Loughborough, 20/3/2020

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2HAP

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RAIB are investigating a SPAD at Loughborough on 20 March 2020 in which a pair fo Class 57s hauling an unbraked Class 710 overran a signal by 200m .


At around 10:57 hrs on 20 March 2020, a northbound train passed a red signal without authority, about 0.75 miles (1.2 km) south of Loughborough station. The train passed the signal, LR507, by around 200 metres.

The train was formed of an empty four-car class 710 unit and two class 57 locomotives; one at each end. It was operated by Rail Operations Group (ROG)... ... Under these circumstances, a class 710 unit does not run with operational brakes; instead, braking is provided only by the two locomotives, which are connected by a brake pipe which is passed through the carriages of the unit
 
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GB

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Given how crappy loco brakes usually are, I am surprised this was the only method of braking on this train.
 

38Cto15E

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What weight would the 710 unit be, the 57s are around 117 tons each with a reasonable brake force, I suspect a fault somewhere rather than the consist going too fast. RAIB will tell me in time.
 

2HAP

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What weight would the 710 unit be, the 57s are around 117 tons each with a reasonable brake force, I suspect a fault somewhere rather than the consist going too fast. RAIB will tell me in time.

144/152 tonnes for a four car unit, 182 tonnes for a five car unit.
 

sharpley

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Saw a class 710 top and tailed by class 20s and barrier wagons the other day on my daily exercise walk. Thought this was the usual way of moving them about (the use of barrier wagons I mean) rather than loco only. Got a quick photo anyway, they were ROG barrier wagons. Photo taken in Melton Mowbray, it had just come off the Old Dalby test track, heading to London I believe.
20200414_181854.jpg
 

ANDREW_D_WEBB

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The barrier vehicles are primarily there to allow the unit to couple to it and then the loco to couple to the other end. Some 57s, including the ones involved in the SPAD, have couplings which allow it to attach directly to the unit, eliminating the need for the barrier vehicle.
 

Domh245

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I'm willing to bet that's been put in place as a response to this incident! They were at one point putting out press releases about delivering these without any translator/brake force wagons if I remember correctly
 

O L Leigh

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I'm willing to bet that's been put in place as a response to this incident! They were at one point putting out press releases about delivering these without any translator/brake force wagons if I remember correctly

Perhaps so. But there will be a reason why this particular movement ended in the train SPADing a signal where all the others moved in a similar fashion did not. As such, the rationale behind using this sort of formation appears sound and that the cause of this incident may well be found in either a technical or human failing.
 

Tom Quinne

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Unfortunately there are crew out there who will be “eyes down for a full line”...aka Stafford.

It’s public acknowledge a ROC move had a SPAD on the Hereford to Shrewsbury line, the driver was suspected by a MOM of not having correct route knowledge.

200m past a red is a very very long way, you’d have to have not responded to the previous signal correctly, or known where the red was for you to go by so far.
 

Ashley Hill

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I thought unfitted trains were a thing of the past. I remember condemned locos being moved around with additional vehicles being attached for extra brake force. Relying on the loco brakes alone seems like asking for trouble.
What speed was this movement permitted to travel?
 

LowLevel

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Unfortunately there are crew out there who will be “eyes down for a full line”...aka Stafford.

It’s public acknowledge a ROC move had a SPAD on the Hereford to Shrewsbury line, the driver was suspected by a MOM of not having correct route knowledge.

200m past a red is a very very long way, you’d have to have not responded to the previous signal correctly, or known where the red was for you to go by so far.

Not at that location, it's a long straight with good visibility. You can see the signal from a pretty long way away particularly on the slow lines.
 

MarkyT

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The pair of 57s, with 12 fully weighted axles should be able to exert significant brake force, The rear one is effectively acting as a brake tender.
 

Domh245

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I thought unfitted trains were a thing of the past. I remember condemned locos being moved around with additional vehicles being attached for extra brake force. Relying on the loco brakes alone seems like asking for trouble.
What speed was this movement permitted to travel?

I can see moves in RTT for Old Dalby - Worksop that are timetabled for 60mph, although those might not be the same as this one (there are also 720s at Old Dalby & Worksop but those are GBRf operated I think.
 

edwin_m

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The pair of 57s, with 12 fully weighted axles should be able to exert significant brake force, The rear one is effectively acting as a brake tender.
However locos (or at least older designs like the 56) have less brake force relative to their weight than passenger coaches. This is why loco-hauled trains shorter than about five coaches were subject to special speed restrictions. So two locos with four or five unbraked coaches would have to be subject to some pretty severe speed restrictions to be able to stop within signal braking distance.

I thought also the ROG locos fitted with auto-couplers also had built in brake translators so they could work the brakes on the coupled unit. But RAIB said the unit was unbraked and had a pipe through it to connect the brakes on the locos.
 

cockneyviking

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When we were transferring class 345 units from old dalby to Wembley with class 67 and 2 braked wagons eiither end of the unit with brake pipe running through the unit the brakes were the bloody awful,
 

MarkyT

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However locos (or at least older designs like the 56) have less brake force relative to their weight than passenger coaches. This is why loco-hauled trains shorter than about five coaches were subject to special speed restrictions. So two locos with four or five unbraked coaches would have to be subject to some pretty severe speed restrictions to be able to stop within signal braking distance.

I thought also the ROG locos fitted with auto-couplers also had built in brake translators so they could work the brakes on the coupled unit. But RAIB said the unit was unbraked and had a pipe through it to connect the brakes on the locos.
I'd forgotten that. A very short formation is classified as a light engine movement, which is limited to 75mph I think where signal spacing normally allows 90mph or more.
 

43096

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However locos (or at least older designs like the 56) have less brake force relative to their weight than passenger coaches. This is why loco-hauled trains shorter than about five coaches were subject to special speed restrictions. So two locos with four or five unbraked coaches would have to be subject to some pretty severe speed restrictions to be able to stop within signal braking distance.

I thought also the ROG locos fitted with auto-couplers also had built in brake translators so they could work the brakes on the coupled unit. But RAIB said the unit was unbraked and had a pipe through it to connect the brakes on the locos.
Not all ROG locos have the brake translator equipment. The 37s that have ben modified with auto-couplers do (there's an extra socket on the nose to plug into the unit, I believe), but I don't believe the 57s have been so modified.
 

Ashley Hill

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I'd forgotten that. A very short formation is classified as a light engine movement, which is limited to 75mph I think where signal spacing normally allows 90mph or more.
Or can be as low as 60mph depending on line speed.
Was this train classed as partially fitted or unfitted?
 

sharpley

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Not all ROG locos have the brake translator equipment. The 37s that have ben modified with auto-couplers do (there's an extra socket on the nose to plug into the unit, I believe), but I don't believe the 57s have been so modified.
That explains the single ROG 37 pulling a 9 car class 345 in the video below (08:40 mins in)
 

2HAP

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The pair of 57s, with 12 fully weighted axles should be able to exert significant brake force, The rear one is effectively acting as a brake tender.


OK, but would a single 57 have enough brake force to stop a 710 and another 57?
 

edwin_m

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OK, but would a single 57 have enough brake force to stop a 710 and another 57?
It would eventually, assuming the brakes didn't overheat, but how long it took would depend on speed and gradient. One hopes the brakes on the rear 57 were working (as noted there was a pipe through the train to control them) otherwise if a coupling failed the rear part would be totally unbraked.
 

38Cto15E

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On leicestershire Live the headline is 'freight train shoots a red light', cheap headline hunter.
 

Dunfanaghy Rd

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OK, but would a single 57 have enough brake force to stop a 710 and another 57?
The rear loco should have been braked; there was a through pipe run through the unit.
Would it have required the engine to be running to supply its air? And if so should the rear loco have been manned?
Pat
 

edwin_m

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The rear loco should have been braked; there was a through pipe run through the unit.
Would it have required the engine to be running to supply its air? And if so should the rear loco have been manned?
Pat
A loco can be braked off an external air supply without having to have the engine running. This may require certain valves to be changed from their normal settings - I don't know the specific case of a 57 but a few years ago it wasn't done correctly on a 66 and after a coupling broke it was rolling around south Manchester unbraked for some time (search RAIB for East Didsbury). No doubt RAIB will be looking into whether the rear loco was unbraked (in fact they should know this already) and if so why.
 
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