Southern timetable changes consultation Coastway West

[moley]

My point here is that there was no engineering work between Portsmouth and Chichester yet a planned but unadvertised reduction of trains from 3ph to 1ph.

The Brighton - Portsmouth terminated at Chichester and one Victoria was diverted to Southampton.

In total, the 5th service from Havant - Chichester was reduced to 2tph.

It wasn’t on the changes to train times, it wasn’t on their website. It’s not good that this was all unadvertised.

 

[LCRTrainfan979]

My point here is that there was no engineering work between Portsmouth and Chichester yet a planned but unadvertised reduction of trains from 3ph to 1ph.

The Brighton - Portsmouth terminated at Chichester and one Victoria was diverted to Southampton.

In total, the 5th service from Havant - Chichester was reduced to 2tph.

It wasn’t on the changes to train times, it wasn’t on their website. It’s not good that this was all unadvertised.

Thats a very good point. That should have been announced ahead of time. I can see the need to reallocate some resources (as they should have done last year when they were lazy and ran nothing to Brighton for pride), but if they out a warning, then that would have ensured people could plan ahead, particularly if southern directly cause overcrowding though mismanagement.

 

[moley]

I have no problem with the reductions or effective use of resources, just that it should be communicated.

Brighton is a popular summer weekend jaunt from Hampshire, and so Gatwick!

 

[JonathanH]

I have no problem with the reductions or effective use of resources, just that it should be communicated.

Brighton is a popular summer weekend jaunt from Hampshire, and so Gatwick!

Surely it is communicated, just in journey planners. The reality is that using journey planners is now how most people plan their travel, not timetables or the website.

 

[moley]

So if I travel on the 10.xx every Saturday morning, I go to the planned engineering works sign - nothing noted. It should be fair to assume that it’s running.

Why should I then have to check that a train timetabled every after week of the year is running?

Surely commuters don’t check a journey planner every day of the week, assuming they are travelling during normal service hours (i.e. not late nights/early mornings).

It was a substantial change to the service offered. There should have been some note of it in the website.

 

[OrangeJuice]

Surely it is communicated, just in journey planners. The reality is that using journey planners is now how most people plan their travel, not timetables or the website.

Some people will also remember there are trains every half hour from Southampton to Brighton on Mondays to Saturdays at 20 past and 50 past the hour. Admittedly I would probably scour the engineering page for a Saturday to check if it would be affected, but unlikely to check the journey planner

 

[Surreytraveller]

Surely it is communicated, just in journey planners. The reality is that using journey planners is now how most people plan their travel, not timetables or the website.

Journey planners only tell you what's running, not what's altered.
Regular users know the timetable, so alterations to the timetable need to be communicated to them.

 

[OneOfThe48]

From the GTR press release about their Brighton Pride services:

On the West Coastway, services that would normally run between Brighton, Portsmouth and Southampton will instead terminate at Chichester. The revised service will help to focus capacity on areas where demand will be greatest. Those wishing to travel to Portsmouth and Southampton will be able to change at Barnham or Chichester for onward connections.

www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/govia-thameslink-railway/pressreleases/platform-prose-unveiled-at-train-stations-to-inspire-passengers-ahead-of-brighton-pride-3335558

Couldn't find a reference to it on the website, but I think they thought it was covered by their usual 'You can plan and check your journeys at nationalrail.co.uk' refrain.

Why someone would think their trains have been changed if its not mentioned I don't know.

Though at the same time my first port of call would be to check a journey planner like the Trainline rather than the website and base my decisions off of that? So maybe a focus on website updates isn't the be all and end all.

 

[moley]

It wasn’t on their website. I checked having turned up to find my usual train not running but nothing on the engineering notices.

If they buried it in Brighton Pride information, that’s daft as unless that was what I was travelling for, I would not naturally look there.

Travelling from a SWR station, they were none the wiser as to where the other 2/3rds of the services were.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

If they buried it in Brighton Pride information, that’s daft as unless that was what I was travelling for, I would not naturally look there.

But you were aware that Brighton Pride was on?

 

[moley]

But you were aware that Brighton Pride was on?

No. I only know it exists in following up on where my missing train is. I couldn’t have told you how big it is or that it needs changes to train services.

 

[Surreytraveller]

But you were aware that Brighton Pride was on?

If their website has a section which has planned alterations to the train service, then planned alterations to train services should be described within it, regardless of whether those planned alterations are caused by engineering works, Pride, industrial action or whatever.
People shouldn't have to guess that they have to check a section of the website that will only exist when a certain event occurs

 

[Bikeman78]

But you were aware that Brighton Pride was on?

I am aware it exists but I wouldn't really expect the service west of Chichester to be drastically reduced as a result.

 

[winks]

Heading from Brighton to Fratton this afternoon and 1hr30 journey time really is depressing. The services where a change is req’d is 1hr43 !!

Why are we going backwards in terms of journey times.

 

[PGAT]

Heading from Brighton to Fratton this afternoon and 1hr30 journey time really is depressing. The services where a change is req’d is 1hr43 !!

Why are we going backwards in terms of journey times.

Bear in mind today is Sunday and the Coastway timetable change has left Sundays untouched. Normally it is about 1h19

 

[LCRTrainfan979]

Bear in mind today is Sunday and the Coastway timetable change has left Sundays untouched. Normally it is about 1h19

Correct. It literally creates anomolies like Bedhampton getting a southern service it doesn't usually get, at the expense of Hilsea, as well as Aldrington and Fishersgate getting double services, and the lack of a Horsham Express with Arun Valley trains dividing at Barnham. It is absolutely stupid, and ought to be looked at someday, because a timetable where quiet stations get boosted services while busier stations get reduced services is absolute nonsense.

 

[winks]

I did wonder why the train called at Bedhampton and not Hilsea and went straight on to Fratton.

From memory (pre 2015) the trains were still faster on a Sunday.

 

[LCRTrainfan979]

I did wonder why the train called at Bedhampton and not Hilsea and went straight on to Fratton.

From memory (pre 2015) the trains were still faster on a Sunday.

It must be some historical anomaly behind it, as its the same case with SWR, where they go straight from Bedhampton to Fratton on Portsmouth direct line services. Either way, given that passenger numbers at Hilsea outnumber those of Bedhampton, it does need to be looked at someday. Rather naughtily, that means that if there is engineering work affecting westbound trains, where all hilsea sunday stops run to, that means Hilsea gets replacement buses, despite trains still passing straight through.

 

[moley]

The immediate area around Hilsea is largely industrial (except for one housing estate). Hence Sunday usage numbers being low and at one point the station having no Sunday service.

Because of the need to fit the SWT (as it was) timetable into a two track railway north of Woking, direct services couldn’t have a Sunday stop added without causing pathing issues.

The solution was to put the Sunday stops into the Southampton or Eastleigh services. Nowadays, both have Sunday stops.

My understanding was that Southern don’t serve Hilsea on Sundays so as not to have bus replacements call.

 

[LCRTrainfan979]

The immediate area around Hilsea is largely industrial (except for one housing estate). Hence Sunday usage numbers being low and at one point the station having no Sunday service.

Because of the need to fit the SWT (as it was) timetable into a two track railway north of Woking, direct services couldn’t have a Sunday stop added without causing pathing issues.

The solution was to put the Sunday stops into the Southampton or Eastleigh services. Nowadays, both have Sunday stops.

My understanding was that Southern don’t serve Hilsea on Sundays so as not to have bus replacements call.

I suppose that does make some degree of sense, but surely, i have looked on google maps, and there are a reasonable number of houses near to Hilsea, and i would say it is the closest you come to Portsmouth north. Fair enough usage is inevitably lower, but maybe a solution could be to have the London via Guildford trains depart from Portsmouth around 2-3 minutes earlier, giving extra time to call at Hilsea. In regards to Southern, i dont get why they need to increase services at any stations on sunday like bedhampton, so they probably could swap the call, or SWR for that matter could do the same, although obviously not for both companies.

 

[moley]

I suppose that does make some degree of sense, but surely, i have looked on google maps, and there are a reasonable number of houses near to Hilsea, and i would say it is the closest you come to Portsmouth north. Fair enough usage is inevitably lower, but maybe a solution could be to have the London via Guildford trains depart from Portsmouth around 2-3 minutes earlier, giving extra time to call at Hilsea. In regards to Southern, i dont get why they need to increase services at any stations on sunday like bedhampton, so they probably could swap the call, or SWR for that matter could do the same, although obviously not for both companies.

For a lot of North Portsmouth, Cosham is just as, if not more convenient than Hilsea.

I take your point about adding Hilsea to Pompey Direct services but add it to the Southbound and you then delay the fast Southbound as they are close together at the Portsmouth end.

It’s worth remembering that the Pompey Direct Sunday timetable has two Southampton - Guildford diversionary paths factored in, so less wiggle room than it ordinary appears.

 

[LCRTrainfan979]

For a lot of North Portsmouth, Cosham is just as, if not more convenient than Hilsea.

I take your point about adding Hilsea to Pompey Direct services but add it to the Southbound and you then delay the fast Southbound as they are close together at the Portsmouth end.

It’s worth remembering that the Pompey Direct Sunday timetable has two Southampton - Guildford diversionary paths factored in, so less wiggle room than it ordinary appears.

So maybe, could swapping out Bedhampton for Hilsea on Southern services to Brighton be a potentially viable solution. In practice, it would mean it would mean that the sunday change is more similar to smaller stations between Havant and Chichester, where their service to London Victoria is swapped for a service to Brighton, while Bedhampton is still skipped due to low usage of the station. It would still mean no direct services between Bedhampton and Hilsea, but I suspect any potential demand would be too small to justify messing with train paths. In this hypothetical scenario, SWR would remain as they are, serving Bedhampton but skipping Hilsea, with southern simply being the other way round.