Southern put Evening Standard to right

[ModernRailways]

Came across this article on Google Now earlier. Quite a good read and it shows, if anything, how well Southern are actually doing.: http://www.southernrailway.com/sout...dard-article-18th-september-on-cancellations/

Response to Evening Standard article 18th September on cancellations

The above article which showed we cancelled 34,701 trains in 2012/13 failed to say that we also run over 750,000 trains per year – the second highest number in the country – and that the cancellations listed form 4.6% of that total.

Both part and full cancellations (where a train either skips stops to make service recovery quicker, or terminates short of its original destination), along with trains that are more than 30 minutes late make up the overall number of cancellations as detailed in the Network Rail report. Part cancellations make up the largest proportion of our overall cancellation figure.

When there are incidents which close lines such as fatalities and infrastructure problems, train cancellations are inevitable, but once lines open again, our top priority is to recover the service as quickly and as efficiently as possible which is what our passenger expect. Due to the congested nature of our network, this is something that generally can’t be done without short notice alterations to train services, including part cancellations or full cancellations.

There have also been major changes at London Bridge station as part of the Thameslink Programme where our platforms have been reduced from nine to six, and our lines in to the station reduced from five to three – all with only a small reduction in Southern services calling there. When disruption occurs in the area, the volume of trains timetabled to call at London Bridge means that we have to reduce the service if there are too many trains for the platforms available.

We have also seen the worst winter on record in terms of rainfall and have been subjected to flash floods, high winds and trees and other debris falling onto the tracks, closing lines and causing severe disruption. The South East was the worst hit and these storms alone accounted for 35% of our total cancellations for the year.

All of the above have contributed significantly to the cancellation figure and we are working with Network Rail to minimise future cancellations and to improve our performance.

Network Rail’s South East Route Director, Dave Ward. Has written an open letter explaining the problems they have been experiencing at London Bridge as a result of poor reliability with the infrastructure. His letter is here: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/letter-from-dave-ward/

I couldn't think of a better title so feel free to change it to something better

 

[306024]

That article in the Evening Standard was awful, it provided no context whatsoever. But then I wouldn't expect anything else.

 

[O L Leigh]

And how much notice do we think the Sub-Standard and it's readers will pay to that...? Shall I make a prediction?

O L Leigh

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I do like it when TOC's fight back against the press. You very rarely see the press then backing their original article

 

[paul1609]

Trouble is that Southerns performance on its withered arm services (coast way west and Arun Valley) are diabolical. Largely because of changes to the service made by Govia.
Terminating short of the country end of advertised services is of epidemic proportions. I understand that Southern is sponsoring new platform signs at Frattom for Portsmouth Harbour, Fareham for Southampton Central Chichester for anywhere West of here (your best bet is the 700 bus)/

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Southern should be kicked out of Portsmouth & Southampton,their performance across from Brighton to Chi & beyond is disgraceful.

What would be useful is a turnback siding at Havant, either in the middle where the through roads were or on the Warblington side. The number of times I've logged a SN service as the cause of a delay at Havant jn against a 1Pxx or 2Pxx, is incredible. And I will use RTT to get the train ID as well.

SN haven't (no pun intended) got a clue how to timetable across there. They should be banned from going to Southampton as a first step,so that removes a revenue stream for them,perhaps by hitting them hard in the pocket,they might be inclined to pull their finger out of their corporate backsides and get the problem(s) resolved.

I know if we carried on like this we'd get our backsides sorely kicked!

 

[andy19_64]

Trouble is whatever Southern (and all TOC's) do they are always going to upset someone.
After disruption train company's need to get the services back to normal ASAP, they are given times by NR to have all trains running no later than, for example as in 60 mins after disruption is over no train will be later than 40 mins, after 90 mins no later than say 25 mins and after 120 mins all trains RTR.

As i said above customers do not understand this when TOC's take out stations or terminate short of destination, all they want to do is get to there destination as quick as they can which is understandable.
If TOC's were just to let trains run it would just make every single train late and would also affect other train company's running where you get more than one operator on that part of the line.
The trouble that Southern and South West have is due to the amount of services it runs there is no chance of building buffer times into their services. The only way would be to reduce the amount of services they run daily and then that would upset people as well so they will never win.
I don't think people in the south/south east realize what a good service these TOC's can provide with the amount of trains they provide to destinations.
You only have to look at towns like Kings Lynn - 1 train per hour, Aberwystwyth - 1 train every 2 hours.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

The problem with SN is they try and run too many services across the route and then when you add a slightly delayed VIC-BOG/SOU/PMH service to it, it has a highly detrimental effect to the services which were running on time.

Time to dispose of portion running across there at Horsham, Barnham & Hayward's Heath and the 377's TMS system is more than a tad temperamental from what I've been told. One driver said it's more mental than anything!

Havant box doesn't help matters by not utilising the reversible working facilities that they have there and the stupid level crossing at Bedhampton with its
TPWS - (you must approach Bedhampton at <=10mph with a red signal on the platform), doesn't help matters either.

 

[Domh245]

I've seen on the TV screens at wimbledon that NR are running a little video explaining how when there is disruption services get cancelled, non-stopped, drivers being displaced etc in the interests of the service and everyone using it, which I think was quite a useful video. Whether or not anyone takes any notice of it...

 

[91103eastcoast]

I've seen on the TV screens at wimbledon that NR are running a little video explaining how when there is disruption services get cancelled, non-stopped, drivers being displaced etc in the interests of the service and everyone using it, which I think was quite a useful video. Whether or not anyone takes any notice of it...

There was a similar video at St Neots yesterday. Is it something being rolled out to all stations?

 

[40129]

Think it might be. The video's also being shown at WVH

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Being shown at Waterloo this afternoon. Rather unfortunately it's on a very small (compared to the departures screens) TV, so may not attract the desired levels of attention.

 

[TEW]

I've seen on the TV screens at wimbledon that NR are running a little video explaining how when there is disruption services get cancelled, non-stopped, drivers being displaced etc in the interests of the service and everyone using it, which I think was quite a useful video. Whether or not anyone takes any notice of it...

On show at Guildford too. I think I've probably seen it about 1,000 times this week!

 

[ModernRailways]

SN haven't (no pun intended) got a clue how to timetable across there.

Because Southern create the timetable right...

Network Rail shouldn't be allowing Southern extra paths if there is likely to be a delay.

 

[LBSCR Times]

Because Southern create the timetable right...

Network Rail shouldn't be allowing Southern extra paths if there is likely to be a delay.

Nothing wrong with the Southern timetable when it works, it is just when it goes wrong, but that is the same anywhere.
If the DfT would allow the same allowances in their timetable that South West Trains has, then there wouldn't be a problem, but they declined to, having been had over with extended journey times and long turnarounds on SWT.

 

[LBSCR Times]

Depending on the company, some of the social media teams are good at giving out information as they understand how the railway works, and others are no more than call centres, with no railway understanding and tend to aggravate the situation.
GTR plan to locate their social media team in the Control at Three Bridges, so at least they will have an understanding of what actually is happening.
Of course that doesn't help drivers, though Conductors get messages via Blackberrys etc, though again, in times of disruption, these tend to go in to overdrive and overload the system. The company formerly known as FCC, the drivers would often phone Control anyway and ask what was happening, and if the Controller knew, then could give a prompt answer, but then it was a smaller company.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

The problem now is of course having a mobile phone or tablet on in the active/leading driving cab is strictly verboten, unless of course all other means of communication have failed. So we still won't know.

If caught using a mobile on the move or without good cause is extremely likely to earn you a trip & a very fast one straight out of the door and it comes with the unions blessing. Which I can fully understand.

 

[jon0844]

The FCC social media team were in house, and are indeed the same people now manning the GTR account. I hope the office move will be okay for them, as changing office location is always a common cause of staff leaving even if they were carried over under TUPE. They do a very good job and are anything but a 'call centre' type operation, giving nothing but standard info or publishing web links all the time. They even show their human side with the odd joke, which of course some people choose to be offended by.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

The FCC social media team were in house, and are indeed the same people now manning the GTR account. I hope the office move will be okay for them, as changing office location is always a common cause of staff leaving even if they were carried over under TUPE. They do a very good job and are anything but a 'call centre' type operation, giving nothing but standard info or publishing web links all the time. They even show their human side with the odd joke, which of course some people choose to be offended by.

Yeah. Rather unfortunately having or showing any form of humour to lighten & brighten things up, to try and relieve the stress of things going wrong, isn't always taken the right way.

At the end of the day, I & everyone else can only do our best, we cannot wave a "magic wand" and get everything working perfectly all the time, it's impossible and the sooner that people realise that the better.

I'm afraid asking for Japanese style running isn't going to happen soon, because the investment isn't there & nor is the pride or enthusiasm by staff, because they're constantly being harassed & harangued by managers who knock any of that sort of thing straight out of their staff. Or by some who like to interfere! ARRGH!

Some managers obviously haven't heard of the adage: If it ain't broke... Don't fix!

 

[LBSCR Times]

The problem now is of course having a mobile phone or tablet on in the active/leading driving cab is strictly verboten, unless of course all other means of communication have failed. So we still won't know.

If caught using a mobile on the move or without good cause is extremely likely to earn you a trip & a very fast one straight out of the door and it comes with the unions blessing. Which I can fully understand.

So, how come some companies provide drivers with company mobiles?
And they use them too, so there must be some form of agreement, although trains are stationary at the time calls are received.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

because they're constantly being harassed & harangued by managers who knock any of that sort of thing straight out of their staff. Or by some who like to interfere! ARRGH!

Some managers obviously haven't heard of the adage: If it ain't broke... Don't fix!

I always remember one Operating Officer, many years ago, saying "I didn't see that, but don't let me catch you doing that again".
I was taught similar, but too often get caught out by some junior manager wanting to make a name for themselves.......

 

[455driver]

So, how come some companies provide drivers with company mobiles?
And they use them too, so there must be some form of agreement, although trains are stationary at the time calls are received.

FGW supply their drivers with mobiles, they still have to be turned off when in the driving cabs!

They are meant to be used by the driver to contact <whoever> when the guard has informed the driver of the need and once the train has stopped, the company to contact the driver during their off time, the trouble is most drivers turn them off when they are not at work sort of defeating the purpose of them. Other drivers will allow the company to contact them on their personal phones.

 

[Squaddie]

The Evening Standard article that Southern has taken such exception to was merely reporting analysis done by the transport union TSSA.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/rail-commuters-hit-by-200000-cancellations-9740674.html

Frustrated rail passengers suffered more than 200,000 train cancellations last year, official figures confirmed today.

Commuters in London and the South-East were the worst hit with nearly 90,000 trains failing to arrive, increasing the overcrowding on following services.

London train operators Southern, South Eastern, First Great Western and South West Trains occupied the first four places in the top 10 “no show” list of shame revealed by the TSSA transport union.

The union analysed figures which were supplied to Network Rail by the train operators.

TSSA chief Manuel Cortes said: “These figures show the private rail firms are failing to deliver for passengers when it really matters, particularly for those in the South East who pay the highest fares to get to work.

“Late trains are bad enough but cancellations on this scale are unacceptable — they are a real slap in the face for passengers.”

The figures are the third tranche of bad news for rail passengers in London and the South -East.

Two weeks ago it was revealed that on some routes one in three trains were late last year.

Train cancellations among all companies across the network came to a total of 211,960.

Why blame the messenger?

And for Southern to say that "only" 5% of their services were cancelled last year merely draws attention to the poor service that Britain's rail passengers, particularly commuters, have to endure on a daily basis.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Southern's response is pathetic. 5% of trains being cancelled is a disgraceful figure and one they should be ashamed of, rather than trying to spin it as "only 5%" before rattling off a list of excuses. The TSSA and the Standard are right to pull them up on it, if I had a 5% failure rate in my job I'd be sacked.

As for the "open letter from Dave Ward", again it's more waffle and excuses about how his ineptitude is everyone else's fault. That letter should be one sentence long: "I'm sorry I'm not doing my job properly".

 

[LBSCR Times]

Of course, it was always better in BR days......not!
It's just that is measured a lot more now, and of course those who complain the most are those that wanted the railways privatised in the first place!
As for the TSSA, they need to realise a lot of their members are not all anti-privatisation.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As for the "open letter from Dave Ward", again it's more waffle and excuses about how his ineptitude is everyone else's fault. That letter should be one sentence long: "I'm sorry I'm not doing my job properly".

Not waffle and excuses, it's fact. But that doesn't suit your agenda.

The equipment is life expired and should have been replaced years ago, as a lot of the parts are no longer available. That's why the project was called Thameslink 2000, it's a clue to when it should have been finished, not 18 years later.

 

[Squaddie]

Southern's response is pathetic. 5% of trains being cancelled is a disgraceful figure and one they should be ashamed of, rather than trying to spin it as "only 5%" before rattling off a list of excuses. The TSSA and the Standard are right to pull them up on it, if I had a 5% failure rate in my job I'd be sacked.

Cancellations are probably the only reliable statistic by which we can measure the performance of a train company, because punctuality can be flattered by stretching of timetables and generous definitions of what "late" actually means.

In 2012/13, for example, even though 93% of trains in the UK officially arrived "on time", the number arriving within one minute of their advertised arrival time (so-called "right time punctuality") was only 68%. For a network that has complete control over what runs on its tracks and when, that is pretty poor.

 

[jon0844]

We need to run less trains. Then we could have more recovery time and any delay ahead won't make much of a difference.

(no, I'm not serious - but that's about the only way to fix things)

What a shame passenger action isn't recorded more, as I bet lots of delays are caused by doors behind held etc.

 

[nidave]

Cancellations are probably the only reliable statistic by which we can measure the performance of a train company, because punctuality can be flattered by stretching of timetables and generous definitions of what "late" actually means.

In 2012/13, for example, even though 93% of trains in the UK officially arrived "on time", the number arriving within one minute of their advertised arrival time (so-called "right time punctuality") was only 68%. For a network that has complete control over what runs on its tracks and when, that is pretty poor.

But if loading takes longer at one or two stations then you will be running late.. People holding doors open etc etc... weather conditions and other issues
So there is slack to allow for that... then the companies get blasted for having such a slack timetable... so they tighten it up or there may not be the facilities to allow for longer dwell times ... so they get blasted for running late services.... and so on...

You cant win.

 

[Chrisgr31]

We need to run less trains. Then we could have more recovery time and any delay ahead won't make much of a difference.

(no, I'm not serious - but that's about the only way to fix things)

What a shame passenger action isn't recorded more, as I bet lots of delays are caused by doors behind held etc.

Well someone has suggested further up the thread that Southern should run less trains. Seems like a good idea, lets cut 20% of the trains out the timetable, lets see how over crowding goes?

Personally I have a great deal of sympathy for Southern even if it is annoying that my train is always a few minutes late. However the converse is that if it was not for Southern my train probably wouldnt exist at all.

Certainly the number of trains that I have wanted to catch that have been cancelled is minimal, and of course it is entirely possible to travel on a "cancelled" train and arrive at your destination on time. This is because intervening stops have been missed to catch up time.

 

[LBSCR Times]

Certainly the number of trains that I have wanted to catch that have been cancelled is minimal, and of course it is entirely possible to travel on a "cancelled" train and arrive at your destination on time. This is because intervening stops have been missed to catch up time.

Yes, if you travel on the west coastway, then unless you use Brighton, Hove, Shoreham, Worthing, Angmering, Barnham, Chichester or Havant, you have a very good chance of either standing on the platform and watching the train go through fast, or west of Havant, not seeing it at all.
Of course, if you use one of those mentioned stations, then you'll say 'what cancellation!'.
Even London-bound peak services are not immune down that part of the world.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Not waffle and excuses, it's fact. But that doesn't suit your agenda.

"Not my fault guv" is waffle and excuses.

If the equipment is repeatedly fails then the buck should stop with the manager responsible for that equipment. Sadly, within Network Rail that isn't the case, as we see with the bonuses paid to the managers each and every year.

I'm not sure how running fewer trains would help with the cancellation statistics. These are not trains that are running late, these are trains that didn't run at all.