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Southern Class 455 Withdrawal

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Goldfish62

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Indeed, given that 3 out of the 6 C2C 387s are now directly leased by GWR, and I’d have thought it quite likely that the remaining 3 would also head to the west too.
I've been told that that is what's going to happen (that's unconfirmed and not an official source).

In any case the proposed cascades speculated on don't assume any service cuts with consequently less stock required.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

The 455s drop down dead on 14th May 14th. They will not be used after that and will go direct to scrap.

The cost to run a 455 is much more expensive than to run a unit with AC traction equipment. If the demand suddenly returns then there will be a lot of unhappy punters on busy trains and that’s a fact. There will also be driver competency factors to consider and so on and so forth. My understanding is that it’s not a long drawn out process like it has been with the Class 315s but rather a Big Bang in May where they all go. Considering the amount of money spent on C4 overhauls it really is amazing.
I thought perhaps they might be kept on standby for short term use with SWR. If the 701s aren't in service by August and the last 707s go SWR is well and truly stuffed, especially as passenger numbers are evidently increasing.
 
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Class455

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Im one of them. The compressor going is kinda relaxing and rhythmic
I'm also in the minority of people who like the sound of the 455's compressors, and will certainly miss the sound of them when they leave.
 

cjmillsnun

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I've been told that that is what's going to happen (that's unconfirmed and not an official source).

In any case the proposed cascades speculated on don't assume any service cuts with consequently less stock required.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


I thought perhaps they might be kept on standby for short term use with SWR. If the 701s aren't in service by August and the last 707s go SWR is well and truly stuffed, especially as passenger numbers are evidently increasing.
They aren’t much good for SWR as they are now very different to SWR’s 455s
 

Deepgreen

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The 455s drop down dead on 14th May 14th. They will not be used after that and will go direct to scrap.

The cost to run a 455 is much more expensive than to run a unit with AC traction equipment. If the demand suddenly returns then there will be a lot of unhappy punters on busy trains and that’s a fact. There will also be driver competency factors to consider and so on and so forth. My understanding is that it’s not a long drawn out process like it has been with the Class 315s but rather a Big Bang in May where they all go. Considering the amount of money spent on C4 overhauls it really is amazing.
The railway apparently has no cohesive rolling stock deployment policy under privatisation. Some dire investment decisions have been made and seemingly continue. Shambolic.
 

HamworthyGoods

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The railway apparently has no cohesive rolling stock deployment policy under privatisation. Some dire investment decisions have been made and seemingly continue. Shambolic.

how can it when the stock is leased and performs under commercial arrangements in the same way as leasing a car!?
 

JonathanH

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The railway apparently has no cohesive rolling stock deployment policy under privatisation. Some dire investment decisions have been made and seemingly continue. Shambolic.
How is it shambolic to withdraw life expired units that are no longer needed?
 

JonathanH

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Southeastern are going to be short of stock when the 377/5s transfer back to Southern.
The suggestions are that they aren't releasing any 377/5s until there are a) the remaining 707s transferred from SWR and b) service reductions.

How do we know that the stored Networkers are going to work? Are they in warm store?
The stored Networkers (eg the 16 465/2s) have been reported not to be coming back into service - they are finished.

The Networkers to displace 377/5s are those which are currently in service and scheduled for withdrawal but now won't be.
 

Islineclear3_1

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The suggestions are that they aren't releasing any 377/5s until there are a) the remaining 707s transferred from SWR and b) service reductions.
At the risk of going OT, as outlined in other threads, it's good to know they are staying. If SWR don't get their 701s into service, then, from what I've read here, the remaining 707s are not coming to SE.

Then I suppose any clapped out suburban rolling stock on the Maidstone East and Canterbury West circuits is better than no rolling stock at all....
 

brad465

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Southeastern are going to be short of stock when the 377/5s transfer back to Southern.

How do we know that the stored Networkers are going to work? Are they in warm store?
They were in warm store, but have now gone too Ely, which is cold store.
At the risk of going OT, as outlined in other threads, it's good to know they are staying. If SWR don't get their 701s into service, then, from what I've read here, the remaining 707s are not coming to SE.

Then I suppose any clapped out suburban rolling stock on the Maidstone East and Canterbury West circuits is better than no rolling stock at all....
If 701s don't enter service it would be the rail financial scandal of the century. The 12x 707s with SWR still are still destined for SE, but their arrival has been delayed. Networkers used to be a common sight on the Maidstone East line before 377/5s turned up, so it wouldn't be new, although there would be capacity limits.
The suggestions are that they aren't releasing any 377/5s until there are a) the remaining 707s transferred from SWR and b) service reductions.

The stored Networkers (eg the 16 465/2s) have been reported not to be coming back into service - they are finished.

The Networkers to displace 377/5s are those which are currently in service and scheduled for withdrawal but now won't be.
Apparently the 2x 377/1s that Southeastern have are going back to Southern this April (these are still in Southern livery somewhat which will help). Does your statement about the 465/2s also apply to the handful of 466s in store as well? Southeastern might want these back if Networkers return to the Maidstone East line, which is 6 car maximum without SDO. Either that or Southeastern invest in making Kemsing, Barming, Hollingbourne, Harrietsham and Charing have 8 car platforms.
 

Class455

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Some 455s allegedly gone into (short term I assume) storage.

455827 835 833
Selhurst to Horsham siding

There was also a 5Z94 to hove yard but no idea on alloxfor that

All of those units were in service yesterday so must be for short term storage
 

JonathanH

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All of those units were in service yesterday so must be for short term storage
By all accounts there isn't going to be any long term storage of these units but I am not sure what inference you are drawing between being in service one day and an expectation of a return to service - eg "must be".

Any withdrawn unit will be taken out of service one day and be withdrawn the next. It hasn't been unknown in the past for units to go out of service one day and be at the scrapyard within a matter of days.

Short term storage could be until there is capacity at a depot for the decommissioning process rather than just a period of non use.
 

geoffk

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Indeed, when there’s a post saying “official communication - 455s to be retired by the May 22 Timetable change on the depot wall” that sounds rather official to me.
The question, is why are TOCs getting rid of trains before their replacements have arrived? They're hardly life-expired.
 

JonathanH

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The question, is why are TOCs getting rid of trains before their replacements have arrived? They're hardly life-expired.
There is a huge reduction in demand and a need to reduce costs. The previous level of service cannot be maintained at an acceptable cost to the taxpayer so some units are surplus to requirements. The oldest units drop out the bottom leaving a simplified fleet. A simplified and leaner fleet carries less cost to the operation.
 

Class455

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By all accounts there isn't going to be any long term storage of these units but I am not sure what inference you are drawing between being in service one day and an expectation of a return to service - eg "must be".

Any withdrawn unit will be taken out of service one day and be withdrawn the next. It hasn't been unknown in the past for units to go out of service one day and be at the scrapyard within a matter of days.

Short term storage could be until there is capacity at a depot for the decommissioning process rather than just a period of non use.
And it transpires it’s nothing to do with short or long term storage after all. They’re being berthed at Horsham because Selhurst Field Sidings are currently closed due to roof issues, according to a Facebook comment from a reliable source on another group.
 

cjmillsnun

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The question, is why are TOCs getting rid of trains before their replacements have arrived? They're hardly life-expired.
The 455/8s are 39 years old and have traction equipment from the 4SUBs. By all accounts they are life expired. They along with the 313s have had a tough life.
 

trainmania100

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Fancy getting some 455s Saturday, are they still regularly used on the Beckenham jn services? What sort of impact will these hove and Horsham stored units have ?
 

FOH

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I'm sitting on one right now. Every train I've gotten from Forest Hill this week has been one. No shortage yet
 

Surreytraveller

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Some 455s allegedly gone into (short term I assume) storage.

455827 835 833
Selhurst to Horsham siding

There was also a 5Z94 to hove yard but no idea on alloxfor that

To create space in Selhurst Depot. They have Sidings out of use, causing cancellations
 

trainmania100

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Indeed it is, this Saturday in fact!
Cheers, there was me thinking all the pathed 100mph units were 377s. Usually I go by rule that anything 75mph is usually a 455 which is often the case, but I could only see 100mph timed units off Victoria
 
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