Southern Class 313 withdrawal/storage/scrapping updates

[physics34]

Strange I haven't heard that at all.
I'll have a word with those involved and ask

The first part re: the 377/5s is from an internal source, the 379/387 thing was from the railway media.

 

[PGAT]

There should probably be a new thread discussing the movement of these units?

 

[03_179]

The first part re: the 377/5s is from an internal source, the 379/387 thing was from the railway media.

Yes.

 

[physics34]

Leisure travel back at 100% does not require peak extras such as Victoria to Tattenham / Caterham services to run. Neither does it need the fleet to be restored to its previous level.

I dont believe we need the exact stock level as before either. We'd still have less stock than before if the 387s did come over. Peak travel is 70 odd percent. Some peak services do need to be strengthened or reintroduced.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Oct 2022 ==

.

There should probably be a new thread discussing the movement of these units?

Yes we digress.

 

[PGAT]

I dont believe we need the exact stock level as before either. We'd still have stock than before if the 387s did come over. Peak travel is 70 odd percent. Some peak services do need to be strengthened or reintroduced.

I definitely feel the passengers have been undercut from what they used to have.

 

[alholmes]

8 November 1976

Out of curiosity, what will be the next oldest EMUs after the 313s?

It was actually mid-August 1976, BR introduced a shuttle between Drayton Park - Old Street. They ran empty to Moorgate to reverse, as the escalators were still being replaced. I’ve got the timetable somewhere - as I recall service stopped at about 20.00 each evening, and Essex Road was closed at weekends as I think it had been in its latter LT days. Would have probably only required 4 or 5 units for that service.

 

[JonathanH]

I definitely feel the passengers have been undercut from what they used to have.

It works both ways. The passengers have undercut the railway from what it used to have.

 

[prod_pep]

The Class 313s entered service on 16th August 1976, not 8th November. The latter date was just the commencement of the full Moorgate - Hertford and Welwyn service.

 

[Southern Dvr]

Any 387 transfer to Southern (not happening I know) would be very much appreciated on the West London Line where the 4 cars with too much bay seating cannot cope with the loadings at Westfield.

 

[PGAT]

Any 387 transfer to Southern (not happening I know) would be very much appreciated on the West London Line where the 4 cars with too much bay seating cannot cope with the loadings at Westfield.

Pre-covid wasn’t there extra peaks running on the WLL? I have heard that there was an extra train an hour that terminates at Watford Junction/Shepherds Bush but uncertain if it was real.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

8 November 1976

Out of curiosity, what will be the next oldest EMUs after the 313s?

Was that first run on BR metals ie for testing or carrying passengers?

 

[antharro]

Can we please keep this thread for the run-down of Southern's 313s?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

There should probably be a new thread discussing the movement of these units?

Yes

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Oct 2022 ==

Can we please keep this thread for the run-down of Southern's 313s?

Yes, especially as it's been posted on here that 3 units might be stood down in December.

 

[LA50041]

Yes

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Oct 2022 ==


Yes, especially as it's been posted on here that 3 units might be stood down in December.

the daily diagrams will reduce from 16 to 13 in the December timetable. That Doesn't necessarily mean that 3 units will be withdrawn but allows more time to maintainance etc.

 

[Class 466]

the daily diagrams will reduce from 16 to 13 in the December timetable. That Doesn't necessarily mean that 3 units will be withdrawn but allows more time to maintainance etc.

of those 16, there's only 12 working diagrams currently (4 spare at Lovers Walk all week) and that reduces to 9 working diagrams from May.

 

[LA50041]

of those 16, there's only 12 working diagrams currently (4 spare at Lovers Walk all week) and that reduces to 9 working diagrams from May.

Correct, the 4 spare diagrams are still on the book

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Oct 2022 ==

From December 3x 313's will be removed and will be replaced with 3x three cars, 3 series 377's. The rest of the 313's are looking at going in May 2023.

Do you have a source for additional 377/s's moving to the coast?

 

[paul1609]

It works both ways. The passengers have undercut the railway from what it used to have.

The problem on GTR/Southern is theres a mismatch between the services on which the revenue loss has occured and the routes being cut.
The West Coastway is seeing much the same passenger numbers and presumably revenue except on peak trains to London but its the coastal trains 313s that are being chopped. Marshlink is still seeing increased passenger numbers following the pandemic but is being punished with the Rye shuttles not being reinstated and inadequate 2 coach trains because revenue has collapsed on Uckfield Commuter services to London.

 

[PedroHav]

I can understand 3 coaches on the Littlehampton - Portsmouth route. However 3 on the Brighton to Portsmouth service is becoming a problem. Many peak services and those at the weekend are extremely busy with almost crushing at times. I feel they should standardise and replace it with 4 coaches matching the Southampton service.

 

[TST2022]

Completely unrelated but 313212 was on 5Z55 lovers walk to lovers walk.. why was this doing this

 

[PGAT]

Heck even 4 coaches isn't enough. 6 should probably be the bare minimum if customers on these routes had rights.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Completely unrelated but 313212 was on 5Z55 lovers walk to lovers walk.. why was this doing this

As it looks like it hasn't run in service for a few days, perhaps a test run of some sort post maintenance?

 

[TST2022]

As it looks like it hasn't run in service for a few days, perhaps a test run of some sort post maintenance?

Yea it just came down from selhurst

 

[trainmania100]

After talk of the first 3 going off the network in December, I've put a video together.

If someone doesn't hear 313s much I've made a half an hour video of 313s. I've extended the first clip so there is lots of sound effects of a 313.

Youtube links and Video sites

69005 at Brighton.

www.railforums.co.uk

Just try and spot 313121 in there. All filmed over the past few years.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

The response by the dft is disproportionate considering leisure travel back at 100%

If only revenue was also back at 100% to cover the costs instead of that magic money tree everyone seems to think exists.

The former Souther Region has always relied on peak revenues to cover the off-peak costs.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Oct 2022 ==

I definitely feel the passengers have been undercut from what they used to have.

That’s because we have less passengers overall than we used to have so less income to cover costs.

 

[TST2022]

@trainmania100

Any ideas on what units?

 

[XCTurbostar]

How often to 313s venture to Selhurst for repairs etc?

 

[TST2022]

How often to 313s venture to Selhurst for repairs etc?

Depends... Probably about 3 or 4 a week

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Depends... Probably about 3 or 4 a week

Not sure about that. Don't they just go for tyre turning or major mechanical work?

 

[TST2022]

Not sure about that. Don't they just go for tyre turning or major mechanical work?

Happens probably more than that... It feels it happens at least once a day

 

[XCTurbostar]

Happens probably more than that... It feels it happens at least once a day

Do they occur on weekdays or weekends? Any standard Headcodes used?