Southern class 171s being reformed into 3 coach sets.

[AlistairCowell]

I compiled the fleet list of Class 171 already converted to 3-car:
171801 - 50801 + 54801 + 79801 (56801 now centre-car of 171812, ex-171726)
171803 - 50803 + 54803 + 79803 (56803 now centre-car of 171811, ex-171725)
171804 - 50804 + 54804 + 79804 (56804 now centre-car of 171808, ex-171722)
171805 - 50805 + 54805 + 79805 (56805 now centre-car of 171810, ex-171724)
171808 - 50722 + 56804 + 79722 (ex-171722 with centre coach from 171804)
171810 - 50724 + 56805 + 79724 (ex-171724 with centre coach from 171805)
171811 - 50725 + 56803 + 79725 (ex-171725 with centre coach from 171803)
171812 - 50726 + 56801 + 79726 (ex-171726 with centre coach from 171801)

Units 171 811 and 171 813 is also confirmed as 3-car units, but their vehicle numbers
are unknown.

Unit 170201 (now the only ex-ScotRail unit) is staying with Southern for the time being,
also bring reformed as 3-car, thus:
170201 + 50421 + 56421 +79421 (I think).

I've also noticed online that 170422 to 422 still have dellner couplers, I'm pretty sure
they will receive BSI couplers at some point...

P.S. Ex-Southern Class 170/4s used on EMR are now 170/9s (for now).

 

[JonathanH]

Units 171 811 and 171 813 is also confirmed as 3-car units, but their vehicle numbers
are unknown.

A list posted on another forum by '03_179' indicates that 171725 was to get 56803 from 171803 and become 171811 so I suspect the sighting today was of 171811 (50725 + 56803 + 79725) and 171803 (50803 + 54803 + 79803).

 

[43096]

I compiled the fleet list of Class 171 already converted to 3-car:
171801 - 50801 + 54801 + 79801 (56801 now centre-car of 171812, ex-171726)
171804 - 50804 + 54804 + 79804 (56804 now centre-car of 171808, ex-171722)
171805 - 50805 + 54805 + 79805 (56805 now centre-car of 171810, ex-171724)
171808 - 50722 + 56804 + 79722 (ex-171722 with centre coach from 171804)
171810 - 50724 + 56805 + 79724 (ex-171724 with centre coach from 171805)
171812 - 50726 + 56801 + 79726 (ex-171726 with centre coach from 171801)

Units 171 811 and 171 813 is also confirmed as 3-car units, but their vehicle numbers
are unknown.

There is no 171813 and it certainly isn't confirmed.

171811 is 170725 with the addition of 56803.

I've also noticed online that 170422 to 422 still have dellner couplers, I'm pretty sure
they will receive BSI couplers at some point...

170422/423 are now 170922/3 to reflect the different couplers.

 

[Roger B]

Deleted

 

[AlistairCowell]

A list posted on another forum by '03_179' indicates that 171725 was to get 56803 from 171803 and become 171811 so I suspect the sighting today was of 171811 (50725 + 56803 + 79725) and 171803 (50803 + 54803 + 79803).

List has been updated. That now leaves just two four-car Class 171 units (171802 and 171806) to lose a centre car, to allow units 171721 and 171723 to receive a centre car. 171721 will then be renumbered to 171807, and 171723 will be 171809.

 

[Chrisgr31]

Do trainspotters that have already seen the fleet in its original configuration with the original numbers now have to see them all again in the new configuration?

 

[Roger B]

Do trainspotters that have already seen the fleet in its original configuration with the original numbers now have to see them all again in the new configuration?

Depends how far anyone wants to take it.

But I couldn't honestly say that I've seen any of 171 801 - 171 812, because whilst I have seen all the carriages many times, I've not seen them in the new formations. And so yes, I will be chasing them again. Similarly, I'm currently chasing 180107 - as it's recently had a fifth car added - even though I've seen all class 180 carriages many times before.

I'll also be chasing the reformed 170 units - I saw them in Scotland when they were 170s, I saw the carriages again when in the 171/2 and 171/4 formations with Southern, and now I'll be after seeing them since they've been reformed.

The numbering into the 170/9 series is an interesting case. Do I try to see them as 170/9s, and then again as 170/4s when they've had their Dellners replaced or do I settle for just seeing the unit? I'm going to go with the latter - because as far as I'm concerned, just changing the coupling isn't sufficient grounds for trying to see them again. But other people may think differently - particularly as there's a change of number involved ......

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Depends how far anyone wants to take it.

But I couldn't honestly say that I've seen any of 171 801 - 171 812, because whilst I have seen all the carriages many times, I've not seen them in the new formations. And so yes, I will be chasing them again. Similarly, I'm currently chasing 180107 - as it's recently had a fifth car added - even though I've seen all class 180 carriages many times before.

I'll also be chasing the reformed 170 units - I saw them in Scotland when they were 170s, I saw the carriages again when in the 171/2 and 171/4 formations with Southern, and now I'll be after seeing them since they've been reformed.

The numbering into the 170/9 series is an interesting case. Do I try to see them as 170/9s, and then again as 170/4s when they've had their Dellners replaced or do I settle for just seeing the unit? I'm going to go with the latter - because as far as I'm concerned, just changing the coupling isn't sufficient grounds for trying to see them again. But other people may think differently - particularly as there's a change of number involved ......

It’s completely up to you. I personally think it would be ridiculous for me to hunt down a train I’ve already been on just to travel on it again - because whether numbered as 171201 or 170420, I’ve been on the train (I used haulage as the example as I don’t spot)

 

[The exile]

It’s completely up to you. I personally think it would be ridiculous for me to hunt down a train I’ve already been on just to travel on it again - because whether numbered as 171201 or 170420, I’ve been on the train (I used haulage as the example as I don’t spot)

Of course you the get the issue of what to as your 3-car unit gets progressively reformed over the years from (imaginary) coach numbers 1-2-3 via 1-2-4 to 1-7-4 and then 5-7-4. Same unit?

 

[Roger B]

It’s completely up to you. I personally think it would be ridiculous for me to hunt down a train I’ve already been on just to travel on it again - because whether numbered as 171201 or 170420, I’ve been on the train (I used haulage as the example as I don’t spot)

That's fair enough.

I do haulages as well - and apply the same logic.

But I would say I haven't seen or been on train 171811 before, because although I've seen and travelled on all its carriages before when they were part of other trains (ie 171725 and 171803), train 171811 consists of carriages 50725 56803 and 79725, and there has never before been a train consisting of those three carriages - so it is to all intents and purposes a different train from all others that have preceded it. So how can anyone say it's not a 'new' train?

And yes, I see your point about 170201 / 170420 - but I do try to see trains when they're reformed if they've had a different formation in between - in my master spreadsheet they're different trains, with different dates into service, etc. But I recognise many might see that as overkill!

 

[AM9]

Of course you the get the issue of what to as your 3-car unit gets progressively reformed over the years from (imaginary) coach numbers 1-2-3 via 1-2-4 to 1-7-4 and then 5-7-4. Same unit?

Yup, it's triggers broom again.

 

[QSK19]

Yup, it's triggers broom again.

17 new heads and 14 new handles. Thank me for when you need that information in a pub quiz

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Wonder if it was 171 803 that I saw? Has that one lost a carriage yet?

Having now looked at my photo, I'm pretty sure it was 171 803 that I saw - going by the carriage numbers; the front end was at too shallow an angle but at a very shallow angle visually the 0 could look like a 1... so... I'm convinced that's what I saw.

The other two were definitely 171 810 and 171 811; the end numbers are clear in the images. I also saw and photographed 171 808 that evening at London Bridge.

 

[fgwrich]

17 new heads and 14 new handles. Thank me for when you need that information in a pub quiz

Sounds like the 458s on SWR... And that's before their rebuild program!

 

[Bikeman78]

Of course you the get the issue of what to as your 3-car unit gets progressively reformed over the years from (imaginary) coach numbers 1-2-3 via 1-2-4 to 1-7-4 and then 5-7-4. Same unit?

Some of the 175s fall into this category. E.g. 175109 has cars from 004/109/005, 175004 has both the driving cars from 175109. I have no intention of riding all the misformed units again. I don't even know when the various swaps occurred.

 

[JonathanH]

1E49 2107 London Bridge to Uckfield running 9-car tonight with 171801, 171729, 171730 and 171728.

Presumably this goes to 3 3-car units in due course once the conversion programme is complete to allow the 2-car units to form 8-car trains?

 

[KT550]

171807 was out today on 1E34 UCK-LBG
and is indeed formed of 50721 56806 79721 (ex 171721/171806)

 

[JonathanH]

Just 171723 and 171802 to be reformed now then.

 

[Class455]

Just 171723 and 171802 to be reformed now then.

171723 was still in service as a 2 car this evening, saw it at London Bridge prior to working 1E41

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I don't do haulages. But if a reformed unit was passing me by, I would photograph it

 

[Roger B]

Presumeably 171802 and 171809 are also now in service - with 171809 having received 56802 from 171802.

If anyone could share the first day each of them was observed in service, that would be very helpful, many thanks.

 

[JonathanH]

If anyone could share the first day each of them was observed in service, that would be very helpful, many thanks.

It may be possible to work back through the 'part time spotter' blog to work out first days for each unit - https://partimespotter.wordpress.com/tag/class-171/

 

[busestrains]

1E49 2107 London Bridge to Uckfield running 9-car tonight with 171801, 171729, 171730 and 171728.

Presumably this goes to 3 3-car units in due course once the conversion programme is complete to allow the 2-car units to form 8-car trains?

Out of interest have 171+171+171+171 formations ever run in the past before this conversion project? I have seen plenty of 171+171+171 over the years but i am wondering if that was the first time four of them have run coupled together? Also does anyone have any photos yet of four of them coupled together in service?

 

[Roger B]

It may be possible to work back through the 'part time spotter' blog to work out first days for each unit - https://partimespotter.wordpress.com/tag/class-171/

Many thanks JonathanH - very userful source of info.

 

[louis97]

Out of interest have 171+171+171+171 formations ever run in the past before this conversion project? I have seen plenty of 171+171+171 over the years but i am wondering if that was the first time four of them have run coupled together? Also does anyone have any photos yet of four of them coupled together in service?

No idea in passenger service, but 5 171 units have ran together (all 2 cars) to form a 10 car set of empties. Not permitted to run in passenger service like that however.

 

[that1pepfan]

No idea in passenger service, but 5 171 units have ran together (all 2 cars) to form a 10 car set of empties. Not permitted to run in passenger service like that however.

Do those have SDO

 

[busestrains]

No idea in passenger service, but 5 171 units have ran together (all 2 cars) to form a 10 car set of empties. Not permitted to run in passenger service like that however.

Wow i was not aware five of them had worked together in ECS! That would have been interesting to see! May i ask why they are not permitted to work like that in passenger service? Ten coach trains used to be a daily occurrence before the corona virus so why could they not run five two coach units as a ten coach passenger train?

Do those have SDO

Yes all 171s have SDO. To activate it the Guard has to go to the rearmost coach that fits on the platform and press the "Door Deselect" button when they release the doors. So yes they have SDO. The 171s can serve any platform.

 

[that1pepfan]

Wow i was not aware five of them had worked together in ECS! That would have been interesting to see! May i ask why they are not permitted to work like that in passenger service? Ten coach trains used to be a daily occurrence before the corona virus so why could they not run five two coach units as a ten coach passenger train?


Yes all 171s have SDO. To activate it the Guard has to go to the rearmost coach that fits on the platform and press the "Door Deselect" button when they release the doors. So yes they have SDO. The 171s can serve any platform.

Cheers mate

 

[louis97]

Wow i was not aware five of them had worked together in ECS! That would have been interesting to see! May i ask why they are not permitted to work like that in passenger service? Ten coach trains used to be a daily occurrence before the corona virus so why could they not run five two coach units as a ten coach passenger train?

I planned it a couple years ago, it was an empty from London Bridge to Selhurst Depot, a combination of engineering works resulted in it. I can't quite remember the discussions in detail but it was something to do with the passenger alarms not working or something I think.

 

[that1pepfan]

I planned it a couple years ago, it was an empty from London Bridge to Selhurst Depot, a combination of engineering works resulted in it. I can't quite remember the discussions in detail but it was something to do with the passenger alarms not working or something I think.

1Z99?