Southeastern metro fleet replacement/improvement

[NCT]

Not really rollercoaster floors, they have seats mounted on a raised floor (like a plinth) either side at the ends over the bogies. The gangway along the middle is fairly flat.

The floor is less flat in a 745 than in a (small wheeled 75mph max) 777, and the gangways between the plinths are noticeably narrow.

 

[Goldfish62]

The Class 345 isn't low-floor. The S stock has small wheels and is limited to 62mph. The Stadler trains have rollercoaster floors. We don't really know what the Adessia looks like yet.

Oops, I meant Class 745!

We know the Adessia will be low floor.
The Stadlers fit the definition of low floor because they allow level boarding. Just like low floor buses are those with step-free access even though there's usually a large step up towards the rear to accommodate the engine etc.

Do we really have to get pedantic and about the definition of low floor and side-track this thread when the vast majority of people know full well what is meant by it, ie allowing level boarding?

 

[NCT]

Oops, I meant Class 745!

We know the Adessia will be low floor.
The Stadlers fit the definition of low floor because they allow level boarding. Just like low floor buses are those with step-free access even though there's usually a large step up towards the rear to accommodate the engine etc.

Do we really have to get pedantic and about the definition of low floor and side-track this thread when the vast majority of people know full well what is meant by it, ie allowing level boarding?

I mean whether the SE new trains will have the same compromises as the 745s et al, which I'm nervous about for a metro setting.

 

[D365]

I mean whether the SE new trains will have the same compromises as the 745s et al, which I'm nervous about for a metro setting.

As per the ScotRail procurement thread, I would expect each manufacturer to offer their own solution to level boarding, which is more or less a de-facto requirement for all new build GB rolling stock going forward. Be that 100% level boarding (as per Stadler) or partial level boarding e.g. one out of three/four vehicles.

Has it been determined whether level boarding woukd be throughout the train or part of the train - or a case of the manufacturer having to make the case for there decision on that?

 

[Jturner98]

Although slightly off topic but I’ve always been curious what the actual reason for the 375/9s are? Someone once told me that they were built to run on the Hastings line. Not sure how true that is though.

 

[JonathanH]

Although slightly off topic but I’ve always been curious what the actual reason for the 375/9s are? Someone once told me that they were built to run on the Hastings line. Not sure how true that is though.

The 375/9s replaced VEPs on the busiest services to the coast. 465/9s replaced VEPs on the 'Weald' services.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

The 375/9s started out on the Victoria - Faversham terminators as I remember them from new. Wasn't long until they were homogenised into the main fleet

 

[Snow1964]

Southeastern are further ahead than Northern. Southeastern have already submitted their business case, Northern from public tenders wouldn't be in a place to do that. Their depot upgrade feasibility works aren't completed and would be one of the prices needed for their business case.

To be fair Northern and GWRs Project Churchward also had outline business cases. Although the timeline has slipped so far that they could be deemed out of date.

Although conversely, the case for doing nothing and just patching up the old trains (that are now 34-41 years old) indefinitely, is looking more like throwing good money at a bad job, every week that it continues.

However I am very wary of the political appetite for authorising new trains for the South East, without also authorising new trains in the North. Seems to go against all the levelling up dictats.

I do wonder if politically it will be easier to sanction 2 or 3 regions orders (even if each goes to different manufacturer) than just approve a South Eastern order (which has been suggested will happen late 2026)

My hunch is the Lord Hendy rolling stock review report will be timed to come out, so that do nothing looks bad, and multiple orders can be placed. And that has the advantage of stopping legal challenges if everyone is getting a share.

 

[Geogregor]

I do wonder if politically it will be easier to sanction 2 or 3 regions orders (even if each goes to different manufacturer) than just approve a South Eastern order (which has been suggested will happen late 2026)

My hunch is the Lord Hendy rolling stock review report will be timed to come out, so that do nothing looks bad, and multiple orders can be placed. And that has the advantage of stopping legal challenges if everyone is getting a share.

Well, they just announced order for the new TPE trains so we have something for "the North". Time for Southeastern now? I have red or heard somewhere that Steve White said about announcement this autumn.

 

[brad465]

Well, they just announced order for the new TPE trains so we have something for "the North". Time for Southeastern now? I have red or heard somewhere that Steve White said about announcement this autumn.

We can probably rule out Alstom getting the Southeastern fleet build; while there is technically 2 years before the TPE fleet building commences, the size of SE's fleet needs will need longer than that. Unless there is capacity to build for two operators simultaneously.

 

[NCT]

We can probably rule out Alstom getting the Southeastern fleet build; while there is technically 2 years before the TPE fleet building commences, the size of SE's fleet needs will need longer than that. Unless there is capacity to build for two operators simultaneously.

Didn't Litchurch Lane build just about everyone's Aventras simultaneously?

 

[SolomonSouth]

I wonder what's been going on with 465930. Is it being prepped for scrap? It's been waiting in a Slade Green siding for a couple of months now.

 

[Wheelspinz]

I wonder what's been going on with 465930. Is it being prepped for scrap? It's been waiting in a Slade Green siding for a couple of months now.

It needs new wheelsets.

 

[SolomonSouth]

It needs new wheelsets.

Thanks for the information. I take this to mean that the axles are worn out to the point where it is not safe to move the train.

I assume it will return to service after the new wheelsets arrive.

 

[CR165022]

Thanks for the information. I take this to mean that the axles are worn out to the point where it is not safe to move the train.

Might also just be that until the wheelsets are ready, it's easier to just leave it out of the way at the end of the siding

 

[Wheelspinz]

Thanks for the information. I take this to mean that the axles are worn out to the point where it is not safe to move the train.

I assume it will return to service after the new wheelsets arrive.

Basically yes, however the axles do not wear but the wheels do, there is a minimum scrap size at which point the wheels need replacing on the axle which cannot be done at depot. The depot just change wheelsets.

A wheelset on most older EMU's is two wheels (with wheel mounted brake discs) fitted to the axle, and may be ready to fit to a bogie with wheel bearings but often with no wheel bearings fitted, until the wheelset is needed and fitted. Simply put, not going into the complication of power wheelsets and trailer wheelsets.

 

[Krystal]

While we're here, I seem to have noticed that 465169 (who came back from Dollands Moor a while back) is outside Victoria Grosvenor Shed coupled with 465196, another long term OOU unit since Jan. Does anyone have an idea what could be up with these units? Two long term OOU units suddenly move to a place where another train (465005) used to be before going to the twilight realm?
Okay, maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, but does SE have a plan with these units?