Southeastern metro fleet replacement/improvement

[ExRes]

RailAdventure 20007 & 20205 are on their way to Dollands Moor Sidings again this morning as 0548 5O19 to move another Networker to Slade Green TRSMD on 0930 7Y65

 

[SpannerWeilder]

This appears to be a video of the above:

 

[ExRes]

RailAdventure 20s scheduled to work tomorrows 1234 5O19 to Dollands Moor for Saturdays 0930 7Y65 taking, I believe, 465169 to Slade Green, the 20s will then return to their base at Kings Norton


* Saturday 27th - a slightly delayed (0953) 0930 7Y65 on its way to Slade Green this morning

 

[DesDobramento]

And here's 465045 returning this weekend for reactivation from Dollands Moor. 465175 will return on 20/06 and 465169 will follow on 27/06.

Realtime Trains | 7Y65 0930 Dollands Moor Sdgs to Slade Green T&R.S.M.D | 13/06/2026

Real-time train running information for 7Y65 0930 departure from Dollands Moor Sdgs to Slade Green T&R.S.M.D on 13/06/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jun 2026 ==


Was an air leak on 919, unfortunate but not really a dire situation. The rumour of SE wanting rid of the MetCams is nothing but a rumour that has existed since 2022, it's not happening, especially considering how much the BRELs are suffering at the moment.

Networker reactivations might provide enough stock to run Rainham/London Bridge replacing the unreliable, unpopular and remote Thameslink operation……

 

[Mattplans]

Funny you say that because I've read elsewhere on the forum today about how it would probably be beneficial to GN if they took back Electrostars from SE. No winning really.

And I wonder if that's really such a good idea (bringing more Networkers onto the network for extended periods of time) when the metro fleet seems to be breaking down in the worst locations just about every week nowadays

 

[brad465]

Funny you say that because I've read elsewhere on the forum today about how it would probably be beneficial to GN if they took back Electrostars from SE. No winning really.

And I wonder if that's really such a good idea (bringing more Networkers onto the network for extended periods of time) when the metro fleet seems to be breaking down in the worst locations just about every week nowadays

What I would do is have a new metro fleet order that is the top end of the range quoted (570 vehicles), plus the optional 70 vehicles. Then I would have a chunk of the order have a 465/9-style refurbishment that allows them to takeover most Maidstone East line, Chatham mainline stoppers and Tunbridge Wells' semi-fasts, then return all the 377s to Southern. The aforementioned SE lines need a train with the acceleration of Networkers and an interior comfort more akin to 375s, because they have long journey times but a frequent calling pattern. If the new fleet has a 90-100mph top speed rather than 75mph, like the 707s do, this would be a bonus for longer distance operation. 640 vehicles is equal to 160x 4-car equivalent, which would be enough to replace all the remaining 465s and all but two 377s at SE, but if the new fleet has higher utilisation than current 465 utilisation, this -2 deficit would be offset.

If passenger growth demands more units, then either add more to the new fleet order, or keep some of the 377s on.

 

[Mattplans]

SE situation is getting pretty dire. At least 3 seperate networkers have broken down/faulted at precarious locations (New Cross, Barnehurst, now Nunhead) on the network just today blocking routes. The latter not helped by the fact 2K and 9Y/9K services are now being diverted via Herne Hill when all TL services that usually run via Norwood are being diverted as well. These trains are life expired

 

[SECR 65]

Are there any EMUs that might be going off lease anytime soon which could go to GN or SN, ideally with DOO cameras, and with the capability to have 3rd rail fitted? Then another tranch of 377s could go across to SE.

 

[CR165022]

Apart from the 458/4s I don't think there's anything, unless you count the 350/2s but there's no chance of that happening.

 

[brad465]

SE situation is getting pretty dire. At least 3 seperate networkers have broken down/faulted at precarious locations (New Cross, Barnehurst, now Nunhead) on the network just today blocking routes. The latter not helped by the fact 2K and 9Y/9K services are now being diverted via Herne Hill when all TL services that usually run via Norwood are being diverted as well. These trains are life expired

We have to hope the C4 overhauls provide some improvement and a replacement order is near announcement.

 

[Ellwill]

Is it strictly the Networker fleet that will be replaced? MD Steve White has hinted on Twitter today that the 376 fleet could also be on the chopping block, given their lack of air conditioning...

https://twitter.com/SteveWhiteRail/status/2075471598849560655

We know trains should have air conditioning. A procurement is underway to replace our non air conditioned metro fleet.

Link: Tweet from Southeastern Managing Director Steve White

 

[Mikey C]

It would be ridiculous to just replace the Networkers, and lumber Southeastern with 3 different metro types for the next 15 years, and then have the mess of just replacing the 376s.

But then the 376s are too young to scrap, and with no obvious place to go to.

 

[Mattplans]

376s might as well be on the chopping block as well. By the time the new fleet is introduced, considering how long procurement has taken to date and when you consider how long it is taking operators to actually introduce new fleets to their network, by the time this fleet is introduced 376s will be life expired

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2026 ==

I suspect it's level boarding that's slowing everything down. It's a real challenge and with the varying platform heights and different routes across the network I will definitely be interested to see if it is even still feasible. Regardless, there are many more heatwaves (or perhaps we should just call it summer from this point onwards) to come before the new fleet is introduced. So keep SE metro passengers in your prayers, especially if the recurring faults/failures/breakdowns we've seen in the past month are to become more common.

 

[Chiltern006]

This procurement has been taking a rather long time.

 

[frankmoh]

376s might as well be on the chopping block as well. By the time the new fleet is introduced, considering how long procurement has taken to date and when you consider how long it is taking operators to actually introduce new fleets to their network, by the time this fleet is introduced 376s will be life expired

I just assumed that the Electrostars will all be retired at roughly the same time.

 

[SteveOfTheStow]

But then the 376s are too young to scrap, and with no obvious place to go to.

That’s the ROSCO’s problem. Shouldn’t have so poorly spec’d them in the first place.

 

[brad465]

It would be ridiculous to just replace the Networkers, and lumber Southeastern with 3 different metro types for the next 15 years, and then have the mess of just replacing the 376s.

But then the 376s are too young to scrap, and with no obvious place to go to.

376s might as well be on the chopping block as well. By the time the new fleet is introduced, considering how long procurement has taken to date and when you consider how long it is taking operators to actually introduce new fleets to their network, by the time this fleet is introduced 376s will be life expired

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2026 ==

I suspect it's level boarding that's slowing everything down. It's a real challenge and with the varying platform heights and different routes across the network I will definitely be interested to see if it is even still feasible. Regardless, there are many more heatwaves (or perhaps we should just call it summer from this point onwards) to come before the new fleet is introduced. So keep SE metro passengers in your prayers, especially if the recurring faults/failures/breakdowns we've seen in the past month are to become more common.

The other issue is that if the new fleet comes with batteries that enable depots/sidings to have third rail removed, along with resilience in power supply failures, this is going to cause logistics' limitations if certain fleets cannot be stabled in certain places, and/or get stuck in a Lewisham 2018-style situation obstructing the units that can carry on. I wouldn't be surprised if 376s are eventually replaced for this reason, and 707s are considered for retrofitting of small batteries. The mainline fleet not having this capability still presents a problem, but at least a full metro-fleet with battery resilience allows Slade Green, Dartford, Plumstead and decent chunks of Grove Park to be stripped on third rail, along with the Dartford lines being largely resilient to power supply failures (although TL would need to give up the Rainham service, which many will of course welcome).

 

[RUK]

Can the Class 376s not have air conditioning fitted to them, like the rest of the Electrostars already have?

 

[Class 466]

Can the Class 376s not have air conditioning fitted to them, like the rest of the Electrostars already have?

Yes, but nobody has been willing to pay for it

 

[JonathanH]

A future role for the 376s with Southern has often seemed to me the right outcome if they were displaced from Southeastern as part of the Networker replacement. Other fleets have had DOO cameras retrofitted, and 376s wouldn't be out of place on routes from London Victoria to London Bridge, Epsom Downs and West Croydon, even Epsom.

The variation in the Southeastern fleet size has always seemed to imply a possibility that 376s could be displaced. If Southern are deemed not to yet need an increase of 180 vehicles, an arrangement could be made to displace more 377s to Southeastern.

 

[CR165022]

No one will pay to fit air con but are happy to pay for a whole new build fleet instead. The jokes write themselves.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

A future role for the 376s with Southern has often seemed to me the right outcome if they were displaced from Southeastern as part of the Networker replacement. Other fleets have had DOO cameras retrofitted, and 376s wouldn't be out of place on routes from London Victoria to London Bridge, Epsom Downs and West Croydon, even Epsom.

376s to Epsom? No thank you...!!!

That would be one way of pushing me back on to using the SWR service more often even though it's still only half the frequency it should be...

 

[Mattplans]

I just assumed that the Electrostars will all be retired at roughly the same time.

So surely as soon as this fleet is introduced or construction begins... they should be looking at a procurement for mainline fleet? Track record of this procurement does not inspire a lot of confidence. Looks like Kent might just be one forced to accept old/subpar/handmedown trains compared to the likes of GA for the foreseeable future...

376s to Epsom? No thank you...!!!

Someone has to take them.

 

[Electrostar387]

376s to Epsom? No thank you...!!!

That would be one way of pushing me back on to using the SWR service more often even though it's still only half the frequency it should be...

Agreed! I remember when the 377s on the south coast were replaced with 313s so the 377s could work Metro services with their SDO... people did not very much enjoy losing air conditioned trains with toilets to be left with summer sweatboxes and no toilets!

I think Epsom has suffered enough with the dramatic reduction of services in general, 376s would be rubbing a lot of salt in a very sore wound at this point!

 

[Doomotron]

No one will pay to fit air con but are happy to pay for a whole new build fleet instead. The jokes write themselves.

Obviously new build trains are more expensive, but it's an investment. The 376s should have had air con fitted ten years ago; they're more than half way through their lives and probably won't last another 20 years anyway. I'd like to see it fitted, but the cost of a new fleet is probably a lot easier to justify than air conditioning.

 

[Mattplans]

If we're going to be experiencing more heatwaves the cost of air con could have stronger justification than the toilets being added to 707s

 

[bramling]

So surely as soon as this fleet is introduced or construction begins... they should be looking at a procurement for mainline fleet? Track record of this procurement does not inspire a lot of confidence. Looks like Kent might just be one forced to accept old/subpar/handmedown trains compared to the likes of GA for the foreseeable future...

You mean the mainline fleet that is only just past half-life? There is absolutely nothing sub-par about Southeastern’s Electrostar fleet, whose passengers benefited from what was effectively a total fleet replacement at the time, and benefited again from the Hitachi high-speed fleet as well.

My priority for Southeastern would be some form of additional capacity for the High Speed service.

 

[Mikey C]

If we're going to be experiencing more heatwaves the cost of air con could have stronger justification than the toilets being added to 707s

With the boiling temperatures inside the 376s, everyone will sweat away all their body fluids, and thus won't need a toilet

 

[Mattplans]

Thomas Turrell AM London Assembly Member for Bexley & Bromley asks the Mayor of London to "back (Conservative Bexley figures) calling for the government to approve the Southeastern business case"

Thomas Turrell AM (@ThomasFTurrell) on X

The current Networker fleet used on much of the Southeastern network are aging, aren't fully accessible and awful in the heat! The Government must approve the business case for upgrading more local services to use the City Beam trains, similar to those on Thameslink services.

x.com

Khan then waffles about how it is hotter in the South of England. Not sure what Khan is meant to do about SE fleet situ anyway.

 

[Cach17]

Thomas Turrell AM London Assembly Member for Bexley & Bromley asks the Mayor of London to "back (Conservative Bexley figures) calling for the government to approve the Southeastern business case"

Thomas Turrell AM (@ThomasFTurrell) on X

The current Networker fleet used on much of the Southeastern network are aging, aren't fully accessible and awful in the heat! The Government must approve the business case for upgrading more local services to use the City Beam trains, similar to those on Thameslink services.

x.com

Khan then waffles about how it is hotter in the South of England. Not sure what Khan is meant to do about SE fleet situ anyway.

Mr. Turrell doesn't seem to be aware that there are only so many 707s in existence, and it's very unlikely that Siemens will build any more.

On the topic of 707s, one 'out there' idea would be (if SE order a fleet to replace them and the 376s as well as the Networkers) to reform the 30 707s into 15 extra 8-car 700s for Thameslink, although that would leave 30 trailer cars spare. There can't be that many third rail branch lines willing to use 2-car 707s...