Southeastern metro fleet replacement/improvement

[Phil R]

It's both reasons alluded to above, plus one.
Laws of physics, the white roof won't absorb sun/heat like a dark one, even aircon-fitted trains would thank you for that.
Physical access above the cantrail line brings safety challenges and obligations, and costs time.
And yes, less vinyl used means lower cost and slightly quicker fitment.
I think they look great, the white roof isn't incongruous like I had initially feared.

 

[brad465]

Looks like a Kingsbury drag is taking place on Wednesday this week coming:

Realtime Trains | 5Q65 0815 Ely Mlf Papworth Sidings to Kingsbury Emr Sidings | 10/12/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q65 0815 departure from Ely Mlf Papworth Sidings to Kingsbury Emr Sidings on 10/12/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Robin Edwards]

Remaining currently at Ely are 465905 & 465921 + 466001, 466010 & 466043

 

[brad465]

Remaining currently at Ely are 465905 & 465921 + 466001, 466010 & 466043

Apparently according to someone who captured drone shots at Booths, 921 went there instead of 920. There must have been a comms' breakdown somewhere on the day of that drag.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

It’s a shame they haven’t done the roof, it looks quite odd in white

I disagree. The white roof makes a welcome contrast against the dark blue (until it gets dirty).

 

[50002Superb]

Apparently according to someone who captured drone shots at Booths, 921 went there instead of 920. There must have been a comms' breakdown somewhere on the day of that drag.

This photo suggests 920:

What a drag

An STP from Ely Papworth Mills sees 37901 passing the recently re-opened entrance to CF Booth's scrapyard. 465934 is the rear unit and 465920 closest to the loco. 5Q19 0820 Ely Mlf Papworth Sidings to Masboro Booths P S

flic.kr

 

[ScotGG]

I've lost track of total 465 and 466 numbers.

How many of each have been sent to scrap, how many planned to be withdrawn and how many of each will remain in service?

Wiki says 119 465s and 20 466s in service but I'm not sure that's up to date.

 

[brad465]

There are also some 465s, especially BREL ones, that are still on Southeastern turf but have been out of action for a long time. 465005 is still in the Victoria Grosvenor siding for example, having seen over a year of no service.

 

[Phil R]

I've lost track of total 465 and 466 numbers.

How many of each have been sent to scrap, how many planned to be withdrawn and how many of each will remain in service?

Wiki says 119 465s and 20 466s in service but I'm not sure that's up to date.

All 97 465/0s and 465/1s still on the books, although as noted above several long term stoppers awaiting long lead time parts.
25 465/9s
19 466s with 3 of those to go in the coming weeks, leaving 16.

 

[ScotGG]

Many thanks.

So the plan is to keep 122 465 Networkers and 16 466s until any new order enters service?

 

[wickham]

5Q65 0815 Ely to Kingsbury has run today (Wed 10.12.25) anyone know which units went please ?

 

[brad465]

5Q65 0815 Ely to Kingsbury has run today (Wed 10.12.25) anyone know which units went please ?

Appears to be 465905 and 466010.

 

[wickham]

Appears to be 465905 and 466010.

Many thanks for this.

 

[brad465]

All 97 465/0s and 465/1s still on the books, although as noted above several long term stoppers awaiting long lead time parts.

Do you know how many roughly units are affected by this?

 

[Stephen42]

Do you know how many roughly units are affected by this?

As a rough guide nine have not had any allocations since the start of October (005, 021, 027, 032, 045, 175, 178, 188). 465159 has not been allocated since early October so could have joined the list since allocations were made available as open data.

 

[GEC465]

Seems someone is deliberately tagging a lot of 465/466s. I do wonder why it seems to happen a lot down here compared to other areas

 

[Phil R]

Many thanks.

So the plan is to keep 122 465 Networkers and 16 466s until any new order enters service?

Depends on timing and numbers plus multiple other variables, but you'd expect the bulk to be required for quite a while yet.

As a rough guide nine have not had any allocations since the start of October (005, 021, 027, 032, 045, 175, 178, 188). 465159 has not been allocated since early October so could have joined the list since allocations were made available as open data.

Yes that seems a fair summary.

Seems someone is deliberately tagging a lot of 465/466s. I do wonder why it seems to happen a lot down here compared to other areas

A numbers of individuals with a pecuiiar addiction to vandalising other people's hard work and pride in their jobs. The teams make great efforts in trying to keep on top of it so customers suffer the unsightly damage as little as possible.

 

[MPW]

Very brief mention of southeastern rolling stock in this GBR press release.

"Procuring new rolling stock for the Metro network (with the process concluding in mid-2026), serving South-East London. This will deliver more reliable, accessible services and a better customer experience, with these new trains potentially entering into service from the end of the decade."

GBR: improvements train operators in public ownership are making for customers

Train operators in public ownership are demonstrating they are putting passengers first, by delivering customer improvements.

www.gov.uk

Notably: procurement process ending mid-2026 and "serving south east london" makes it seem like only metro services covered by this particular procurement.

 

[Stephen42]

Notably: procurement process ending mid-2026 and "serving south east london" makes it seem like only metro services covered by this particular procurement.

Yes, this will just be Networker replacement. It is likely they'll run slightly further out than just metro routes and the tender specified them as such, but the majority of what they'd do will be on the metro part of their network.

 

[JonathanH]

Yes, this will just be Networker replacement. It is likely they'll run slightly further out than just metro routes and the tender specified them as such, but the majority of what they'd do will be on the metro part of their network.

Aside from the point that 707s aren't cleared for Tunbridge Wells at present, is there any reason why the 707s couldn't become the "further out" fleet with the Networker replacement being a "true metro" fleet fitted out in a much more appropriate way specifically with short journeys in mind?

 

[NSEWonderer]

Aside from the point that 707s aren't cleared for Tunbridge Wells at present, is there any reason why the 707s couldn't become the "further out" fleet with the Networker replacement being a "true metro" fleet fitted out in a much more appropriate way specifically with short journeys in mind?

707s are a true metro train? Everything from the doors, seating arrangements, Acceleration, current lack of toilets(more capacity) and etc makes them so.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

707s are a true metro train? Everything from the doors, seating arrangements, Acceleration, current lack of toilets(more capacity) and etc makes them so.

In terms of a suburban railway yes, but an actual metro train, no. I'd say really only the 345, 378 and 710 fit that criteria on the heavy-rail network.

 

[778]

Aside from the point that 707s aren't cleared for Tunbridge Wells at present, is there any reason why the 707s couldn't become the "further out" fleet with the Networker replacement being a "true metro" fleet fitted out in a much more appropriate way specifically with short journeys in mind?

Would you want 100% longitudinal seating for the new metro fleet? A problem could be that it might be difficult to seperate the metro and further out services because there is a lot of interworking and a lot of running between different routes.

 

[A60stock]

A new metro fleet should follow the seating style of the s8 stock or class 345, featuring both. Allow the 707s to support longer distance work.

 

[Invincible]

A new metro fleet should follow the seating style of the s8 stock or class 345, featuring both. Allow the 707s to support longer distance work.

If Alstom have put in a bid for battery X’trapolis trains to be built at Derby. The ones supplied for the Dublin DART+ lines have 2 + 2 seats, with standing space
.https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/03/alstom-and-irish-rail-unveil-full-size-model-of-new-dart-carriage-in-dublin.html
But some could be longitudinal seating?

 

[Mikey C]

707s are a true metro train? Everything from the doors, seating arrangements, Acceleration, current lack of toilets(more capacity) and etc makes them so.

The 707s are definitely a metro train. The replacement 701s at SWR have a similar layout.

SE metro doesn't need an Overground style layout. Apart from anything else, most Overground routes have a restricted length of 4 or 5 cars, whereas SE metro can run 8-12 car trains.

 

[NSEWonderer]

The 707s are definitely a metro train. The replacement 701s at SWR have a similar layout.

SE metro doesn't need an Overground style layout. Apart from anything else, most Overground routes have a restricted length of 4 or 5 cars, whereas SE metro can run 8-12 car trains.

Exactly. Longitudinal seating would not work well for SE metro trains, more so Networkers which whilst primarily were meant to be metro work based, also had the ability to fulfill short term longer distance work if needed which longitudinal seating would not allow properly for.

345s aren't even wholly suitable once they exit the core west of Paddington on their journey to Reading when it comes to the seating, specifically. A similar style on the SE network would be poor.

 

[Mattplans]

Exactly. Longitudinal seating would not work well for SE metro trains, more so Networkers which whilst primarily were meant to be metro work based, also had the ability to fulfill short term longer distance work if needed which longitudinal seating would not allow properly for.

SE metro doesn't need an Overground style layout.

What leads you to conclude this? Clearly you have never been on a rammed networker during peak hours.

 

[NSEWonderer]

What leads you to conclude this? Clearly you have never been on a rammed networker during peak hours.

And so longitudinal seating suddenly solves this???? Lets ram even more people like sardines into a train with arguable less seats if longitudinal.

So great for longer distance Journey's once the majority of pax hop off at X station 10 stops before the final station which is 1hrs away and pax are sitting longitudinal the whole way through it.

SE metro trains don't predominantly stay metro based as networkers often show and so a primarily longitudinal seating based train wouldn't be as nearly adaptable for what routes these trains could run on.

Also 710s and 345s, 378s etc don't have toilets, SE would like to have so on their newer trains and so again the issue of how that would fit with a longitudinal design I can't see in my view fit, don't even know if there is a train with a mostly longitudinal seating design and toilets, etc in London.

 

[LLivery]

What leads you to conclude this? Clearly you have never been on a rammed networker during peak hours.

I use SE in the peaks all the time and have used many a Overground in the peaks. I'd pick the comfort of a Networker over a 378 in the high peak any day. I don't want longitudinal at all. We have 10-12 car trains - people want seats. I want seats, not having to stand because of a lack of seating, or if I'm lucky, get a seat with someone's backside in my face. And unlike what many people claim, SE passengers even use the middle seats on a 2+3 layout. We want seats.