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South Wales 'Metro' updates

WesternBiker

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Came here to say just that! And Cardiff Central staff being Cardiff Central staff, showed one of them the other day and he said “This says Cardiff Bay to Newport. This is neither.” :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
That's not good to hear... I have to say I've never had a problem breaking my journey (London-Barry) at Central in 20 years of travelling that route, though I do always say the magic words "I'm breaking my journey to go to M&S/WHSmiths"...
 
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Last Hurrah

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That's not good to hear... I have to say I've never had a problem breaking my journey (London-Barry) at Central in 20 years of travelling that route, though I do always say the magic words "I'm breaking my journey to go to M&S/WHSmiths"...

I frequently break a journey to meet my daughter on her lunch break - always politely ask if I can break my journey & it’s never been a problem

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Canton Depot has also had its OLE energised.

BAM Nuttall installed wires, Balfour Beatty did HV power works.

Now we just need that annoying gap between Canton & the limit of wiring between Ninian Park & Waun-gron Park to be closed...<D

Aside from a modest saving on cost, why weren’t Masts installed up to the TfW/NR boundary ?

Unlike at Cathays, no University Brain Research Centre nearby
 
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59CosG95

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I frequently break a journey to meet my daughter on her lunch break - always politely ask if I can break my journey & it’s never been a problem

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Aside from a modest saving on cost, why weren’t Masts installed up to the TfW/NR boundary ?

Unlike at Cathays, no University Brain Research Centre nearby
Some contractual gubbins probably.
The layout ISTR would have been "complex" at Cardiff Queen St, and down the grade to Central.

Hope springs eternal though...
 

56xx

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19 Jun 2021
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Merthyr Tydfil
Progress on the Merthyr Tydfil line.DSC_1016.JPG
Just north of Merthyr Vale. Overhead seems complete right up to Plymouth Street just south of the terminus.

DSC_1019.JPG

Quaker's Yard all ready and waiting for the planning decision.
 

positron

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More happenings down at the bay the past few days, most of the old fencing has been taken down only a short section of the existing platform is still open. Presumably in preparation for them to start putting in the new platform surface?

Still seems to be a fair amount of track work required for the full double tracking to be done.

Nice to see wires going up north of ponty. What's the latest on a go live date?
 

59CosG95

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Progress on the Merthyr Tydfil line.View attachment 142828
Just north of Merthyr Vale. Overhead seems complete right up to Plymouth Street just south of the terminus.

View attachment 142829

Quaker's Yard all ready and waiting for the planning decision.
They've really cracked on with the Merthyr branch then!
Do the wires stop just short of the bridge over Plymouth St? I'd surmise they stop slightly further south, near where Clare St meets Warlow St, owing to TfW's reticence to install wall/masonry brackets of any sort...
 

56xx

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They've really cracked on with the Merthyr branch then!
Do the wires stop just short of the bridge over Plymouth St? I'd surmise they stop slightly further south, near where Clare St meets Warlow St, owing to TfW's reticence to install wall/masonry brackets of any sort...
Yes they stop virtually opposite the northernmost house in Clare Street.
 

MikePJ

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They've really cracked on with the Merthyr branch then!
Do the wires stop just short of the bridge over Plymouth St? I'd surmise they stop slightly further south, near where Clare St meets Warlow St, owing to TfW's reticence to install wall/masonry brackets of any sort...
That's good progress! I still strongly suspect (and apologies for speculating!) that there will be political pressure to demonstrate an electric train running before December this year (as that was a previously-aimed-for completion date) - even if it's just a press run from Cardiff to Merthyr and back.

EDIT: looking back at the documents released in June the target OLE energisation date for both Merthyr and Aberdare routes is 7th October, which is in three weeks' time.
 

Markdvdman

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They should start running the new trains - maybe not regularly but to get a feel for how reliable they are. Sadly, until treherbert is done, they will not really come to fruition. The timetable at the moment is awful as they just cancel services between Barry and Cardiff Central when as low as 6 mins late like today! They need to sort it out as anybody who read the Wales Online article about the state of rail in Wales will be shocked (we are not - referring to non enthusiasts). Would love to try the new tram trains but on the converse will lose direct trains past Cardiff whivh affects me.
 

positron

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They really need to fix Cardiff West junction from my understand that causes lots of issues if there's delays.

I'm assuming they'll be running class 756s as soon as they have anyone trained for the AM routes, to show the electrification getting used.
 

Signal_Box

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They really need to fix Cardiff West junction from my understand that causes lots of issues if there's delays.

I'm assuming they'll be running class 756s as soon as they have anyone trained for the AM routes, to show the electrification getting used.

There hasn’t been any issues of note on Cardiff West this year, there was a partial renewal on the Valleys line over last Xmas.
 

positron

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As I understand it there's a missing section of track (highlighted in red) at Cardiff West that lowers the capacity, and is the reason city line is stuck at 2tph despite being fully double tracked. I may be wrong but I think it also causes issues when there's delays due to the same capacity constraints.
 

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Signal_Box

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It’s not missing, it’s never been part of that layout.

But yes, that one double ender opens up significant flexibility with parallel moves on the UP Barry and UP Barry Relief possible.

Unfortunately like I said a partial renewal was done over Xmas 22, this was part of the like for like project.
 

Envoy

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It’s not missing, it’s never been part of that layout.

But yes, that one double ender opens up significant flexibility with parallel moves on the UP Barry and UP Barry Relief possible.

Unfortunately like I said a partial renewal was done over Xmas 22, this was part of the like for like project.
So, are we to assume that it was a like for like renewal at Xmas 22 rather than the red line highlighted ‘positron’ above that means we are to remain stuck at 2 trains per hour on the City Line?
 

positron

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So, are we to assume that it was a like for like renewal at Xmas 22 rather than the red line highlighted ‘positron’ above that means we are to remain stuck at 2 trains per hour on the City Line?
Yup it's definitely still 'missing' unfortunately. It was planned as part of the Cardiff area resignalling but got dropped and Network rail somehow aren't willing to spend the 20m (a figure I read in some business case document) to fix it. I suspect the likely outcome will be Welsh government pay for it out of their pocket. Potentially as part of the trams to central infrastructure works. Its not been confirmed but if those trams are to continue up the ramp that capacity increase will be a requirement.

Realistically they need the city line to have a grade separated junction but that's obviously much more costly and would still require this fix.
 

Signal_Box

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Yup it's definitely still 'missing' unfortunately. It was planned as part of the Cardiff area resignalling but got dropped and Network rail somehow aren't willing to spend the 20m (a figure I read in some business case document) to fix it. I suspect the likely outcome will be Welsh government pay for it out of their pocket. Potentially as part of the trams to central infrastructure works. Its not been confirmed but if those trams are to continue up the ramp that capacity increase will be a requirement.

Realistically they need the city line to have a grade separated junction but that's obviously much more costly and would still require this fix.
How on earth are you going to grade separate the City and Barry lines at Cardiff West ?!
 

positron

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How on earth are you going to grade separate the City and Barry lines at Cardiff West ?!
Well it'd be the triangle (Penarth curve?) Bit where the separation actually happens. I think the idea was an underpass rather than flyover. But I don't know if anyone's ever properly appraised the idea beyond "we probably need this for the north west corridor route"

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To get slightly more on topic (apologies) has there been any updates on the plans for Cardiff (Metro) Central. Last I heard they were going through business cases for how they were gonna make it fit for the future of a unified metro but it all seems to have gone quiet?
 

Signal_Box

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Before expensive infrastructure is proposed we really need to max out train lengths, all rhe valley platforms, we’ll most are now 6 cars, but 2 and a handful of 4 car trains have run since Arrvia days.

The current city line service is a single car, aside from the peak it’s seldom even a 1/4 full.

The obsession with 20tph when those trains are the minimum length only causes reliability issues for the service.
 

John R

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Before expensive infrastructure is proposed we really need to max out train lengths, all rhe valley platforms, we’ll most are now 6 cars, but 2 and a handful of 4 car trains have run since Arrvia days.

The current city line service is a single car, aside from the peak it’s seldom even a 1/4 full.

The obsession with 20tph when those trains are the minimum length only causes reliability issues for the service.
Agree that a lot of money was wasted on platform extensions a decade ago which were never used in a regular basis.

However, the rationale of the metro is to have turn up and go frequencies of 4tph on each of the valley branches, and to my mind that is far more attractive to the local population in improving connectivity than longer trains. And it’s been the proposal for nigh on 5 years now, with alternate services being one and then two units, so not much point speculating on how it might be done differently.
 

Envoy

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On the City Line in west Cardiff, I hear that Waungron Park has had some of the fastest growth in passengers despite being only one train every 30 minutes. The buses take ages to get from west Cardiff into the city centre. Once the new electric services start, I think a promotion of free tickets to every house within walking distance of the Metro stations in Cardiff would induce a switch from cars and buses to the trains. Of course, such free tickets would have to be spaced out to avoid loads of people trying the new services at once and the overloading resulting in ’never again’.

I have come across people who live within walking distance of stations on the Penarth to Caerphilly route - now mainly operated by FLIRTS. These people have never used the trains and continue to travel around Cardiff by car. One even lives a 6 minute walk from Penarth station and was complaining about the queue to get into the car park under John Lewis. Others drive all the way from the valleys into central Cardiff.

Many people are not sure where the trains exactly go and where to change routes in the Cardiff area. They need a clear map of the system in the Cardiff area south of the M4 extending to the coast and as far west as Rhoose in order to show the short bus link to the airport. Some people have been confused by Llandaff station not being in Llandaff but really in Llandaff north. Having Welsh first and bold with English second and in faint type on maps is doing The Metro no favours in mainly English only speaking south-east Wales.
 

MikePJ

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Cardiff Bay update: a lorry was there this morning unloading a number of large (1m x 1m x 0.75m approx) U-shaped pre-cast concrete modules. I presume that these will form the base for the new platform, with the pre-cast platform surfaces that we've seen previously going on top of them.
 

Peter Sarf

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On the City Line in west Cardiff, I hear that Waungron Park has had some of the fastest growth in passengers despite being only one train every 30 minutes. The buses take ages to get from west Cardiff into the city centre. Once the new electric services start, I think a promotion of free tickets to every house within walking distance of the Metro stations in Cardiff would induce a switch from cars and buses to the trains. Of course, such free tickets would have to be spaced out to avoid loads of people trying the new services at once and the overloading resulting in ’never again’.

I have come across people who live within walking distance of stations on the Penarth to Caerphilly route - now mainly operated by FLIRTS. These people have never used the trains and continue to travel around Cardiff by car. One even lives a 6 minute walk from Penarth station and was complaining about the queue to get into the car park under John Lewis. Others drive all the way from the valleys into central Cardiff.

Many people are not sure where the trains exactly go and where to change routes in the Cardiff area. They need a clear map of the system in the Cardiff area south of the M4 extending to the coast and as far west as Rhoose in order to show the short bus link to the airport. Some people have been confused by Llandaff station not being in Llandaff but really in Llandaff north. Having Welsh first and bold with English second and in faint type on maps is doing The Metro no favours in mainly English only speaking south-east Wales.
Interesting, yes a clearer map (tube style ?) would be helpful and also frequency. As I spend time in Penarth and also by the Taff on Grangetown side I see the generation below me using the car where I walk or go for the train (usually with granddaughter). That is unless I am travelling with them - but then I get to Cardiff from England most times by coach !.

My bold - yes I suffer being English. The road signs have become hard to read (I would prefer two signs with different font or outline). I often ask people around me in Cardiff and they all see the priority given to the Welsh language as the tail wagging the dog. I am all for equality (and it is a beautiful language) but this is positive discrimination against the majority in South Wales.
 
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On the City Line in west Cardiff, I hear that Waungron Park has had some of the fastest growth in passengers despite being only one train every 30 minutes. The buses take ages to get from west Cardiff into the city centre. Once the new electric services start, I think a promotion of free tickets to every house within walking distance of the Metro stations in Cardiff would induce a switch from cars and buses to the trains. Of course, such free tickets would have to be spaced out to avoid loads of people trying the new services at once and the overloading resulting in ’never again’.

I have come across people who live within walking distance of stations on the Penarth to Caerphilly route - now mainly operated by FLIRTS. These people have never used the trains and continue to travel around Cardiff by car. One even lives a 6 minute walk from Penarth station and was complaining about the queue to get into the car park under John Lewis. Others drive all the way from the valleys into central Cardiff.

Many people are not sure where the trains exactly go and where to change routes in the Cardiff area. They need a clear map of the system in the Cardiff area south of the M4 extending to the coast and as far west as Rhoose in order to show the short bus link to the airport. Some people have been confused by Llandaff station not being in Llandaff but really in Llandaff north. Having Welsh first and bold with English second and in faint type on maps is doing The Metro no favours in mainly English only speaking south-east Wales.
It seems a no brainer to run 4tph each way over the City line through to the valleys, thus providing a good service to the line and having a decent passenger load on every train. I guess the only issue could be over capacity trains, but if there are 6 car 398s at peaks then this shouldn't happen.
 

Last Hurrah

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It seems a no brainer to run 4tph each way over the City line through to the valleys, thus providing a good service to the line and having a decent passenger load on every train. I guess the only issue could be over capacity trains, but if there are 6 car 398s at peaks then this shouldn't happen.

When the day finally arrives & the new train service is launched in a blaze of publicity, the last thing TfW want, is for commuters to be left behind on platforms with ensuing negative headlines

If customer incentives to use the train are going to be offered to people living within the catchment area of a City Line station, trains should initially start from Radyr during the morning peaks rather than further up the Valleys

TfW need to be more customer aware regarding transport needs for sporting events - last Saturday evening close to 29000 attended the South Wales Derby at CCFC Stadium yet Ninian Park Station was being served by single coach 153’s
 

John R

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It seems a no brainer to run 4tph each way over the City line through to the valleys, thus providing a good service to the line and having a decent passenger load on every train.
Lots of things seem a no-brainer until you realise there is a large capital cost in terms of an infrastructure intervention to facilitate it.
 

positron

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Lots of things seem a no-brainer until you realise there is a large capital cost in terms of an infrastructure intervention to facilitate it.
Yes but whats £20m when you're already spending £1bn? Especially when the roads need the relief from a utilised rail service.

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I notice there seems to have been a lot done at the Bay. The original platform face is being ripped up so hopefully we'll start to see the new one getting built soon. Lots of ground works being done for Bute town station. Curious to see what the full new track alignment is going to look like in practice. Especially the northern end.
 

Envoy

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When the Bay area was re-developed, the original plan was to rip up the Bay branch and incorporate the northern bit of Lloyd George Avenue into Bute (later Callaghan) Square. The railway was seen as barrier to be removed. How times have changed!

I think it is regrettable that new office blocks were built next to where the lines ascend from Central towards Queen Street as that land could have been used for a new link from Central to the Bay. It remains to be seen the solution that they come with for the Central to Bay link?

As positron says above, they really do need to spend the money to sort out the choke point near the Canton depot in order to get full value from the vast amount of money already spent. It is ridiculous if the City Line - serving a densely populated area - can only handle one train every 30 minutes.
 

StKeverne1497

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When the Bay area was re-developed, the original plan was to rip up the Bay branch and incorporate the northern bit of Lloyd George Avenue into Bute (later Callaghan) Square. The railway was seen as barrier to be removed. How times have changed!
Working in that area of Cardiff at the time, the impression I had was that the plan was to remove the embankment and bring the railway down to street level, not to get rid of it altogether. However the developers of the posh, expensive new flats on the eastern side rather liked the idea of a physical barrier between them and Butetown itself, so the embankment was kept. Can't have ordinary folk just wandering across to our shiny new developments, can we?
 

edwin_m

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When the Bay area was re-developed, the original plan was to rip up the Bay branch and incorporate the northern bit of Lloyd George Avenue into Bute (later Callaghan) Square. The railway was seen as barrier to be removed. How times have changed!
Working in that area of Cardiff at the time, the impression I had was that the plan was to remove the embankment and bring the railway down to street level, not to get rid of it altogether. However the developers of the posh, expensive new flats on the eastern side rather liked the idea of a physical barrier between them and Butetown itself, so the embankment was kept. Can't have ordinary folk just wandering across to our shiny new developments, can we?
I was involved in a feasibility study in around 1997 into lowering the route to ground level and running it as tram-train. As far as I recall it wasn't possible to cross Herbert Street on the level due to the proximity of the bridge over the line into Central, so it would have had to ramp down further south, and the ramp would have been inconveniently high for pedestrians to cross it at grade but also too low for an underpass.
 

AdamWW

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Working in that area of Cardiff at the time, the impression I had was that the plan was to remove the embankment and bring the railway down to street level, not to get rid of it altogether. However the developers of the posh, expensive new flats on the eastern side rather liked the idea of a physical barrier between them and Butetown itself, so the embankment was kept. Can't have ordinary folk just wandering across to our shiny new developments, can we?

I certainly read that there were plans to abandon the railway line to free up land for development on the grounds that it wasn't needed because everyone could catch the number 6 bus instead.

Whether that was actually true or a misunderstanding is another story of course...
 

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