Slip coaches

[Rescars]

Moderator note: Split from

What exactly were brake vans?

I remember seeing them in Hornby catalogues. And coaches called things like ‘1st brake open’. Did they actually help the train brake?

www.railforums.co.uk

And, on a tangent, slip coaches.

AIUI, slip coaches (post Armagh) were normally controlled by judicious use of the vacuum brake. The problems arose if the slip guard was a bit eager and stopped short. Presumably slip coaches were fitted with handbrakes also, but for parking purposes rather than train control.

 

[Gloster]

AIUI, slip coaches (post Armagh) were normally controlled by judicious use of the vacuum brake. The problems arose if the slip guard was a bit eager and stopped short. Presumably slip coaches were fitted with handbrakes also, but for parking purposes rather than train control.

Roughly, slip coaches worked by being part of the main train until the valves between the slip and the coach ahead were closed. The vacuum was maintained when the coach was uncoupled, but was then gradually released to apply the brakes to bring the train to a stand at (hopefully) the correct point. The difference to a normal coach is that ’when it’s gone, it’s gone’: there is no loco to blow the brakes off. As said, they had the normal handbrakes for stabling.

 

[Sun Chariot]

@Sad Sprinter - this video (from BBC Railway Roundabout) of the final WR slip-coach working, has good - albeit quite brief - footage of the brakeman's activity in the slip carriage; before and following detachment.

 

[Taunton]

Roughly, slip coaches worked by being part of the main train until the valves between the slip and the coach ahead were closed. The vacuum was maintained when the coach was uncoupled, but was then gradually released to apply the brakes to bring the train to a stand at (hopefully) the correct point. The difference to a normal coach is that ’when it’s gone, it’s gone’: there is no loco to blow the brakes off. As said, they had the normal handbrakes for stabling.

And for this reason slip guards would use the handbrake even when rolling, because then they could keep the vacuum available keeping those brakes off. The slip guards were real experts at controlling it all - the ones on the Down Cornish Riviera which slipped at Taunton would bring the coach to a stand in the Down Main platform with the front door directly opposite the subway entrance. There were in fact actually large vacuum cylinders under the slip coach frames to keep the vacuum over sustained braking.

A hazard was the valves on the connection to the main train not working properly when slipped and the brakes coming on the main train, so the slip guard would give an immediate heavy brake when detached, while the locomotive simultaneously would be given full regulator and large ejector to try to keep going, maximising the distance between them as soon as possible. If that happened the locomotive was to give continuous whistle and keep going to beyond the station, while the slip coach would be immediately braked to a stand, to be recovered by the station pilot. The "Rivvy" at Taunton was aided by the Exeter slip coach being immediately ahead, if that one's slip guard saw the vacuum gauge, on the main train, suddenly falling they would give red flag out of the window. Never heard of all this happening.

 

[Sun Chariot]

The "Rivvy" at Taunton was aided by the Exeter slip coach being immediately ahead

@Taunton as they say, "Every day's a school day" and you have answered a topic that for years, my mother used to mention and which I had disbelieved. Thank you.

OT alert: my mother returned to the UK at the end of the 1940s (military family) and she used to talk of taking the train from London to Exeter - having to ensure she was in the Exeter slip-coach.
I used to rubbish her story, telling her that she was in the train's Exeter portion and that her carriages had been detached whilst the train was stationary at either Central or St Davids.
One lives and learns, eh...

 

[Taunton]

@Taunton as they say, "Every day's a school day" and you have answered a topic that for years, my mother used to mention and which I had disbelieved. Thank you.

I'll ask the mods if this can be split out into a separate slip coach discussion ... my grandfather may have been in the coach behind your mother, slipped at Taunton. It was his favourite train back from London.

 

[Rescars]

And for this reason slip guards would use the handbrake even when rolling, because then they could keep the vacuum available keeping those brakes off. The slip guards were real experts at controlling it all - the ones on the Down Cornish Riviera which slipped at Taunton would bring the coach to a stand in the Down Main platform with the front door directly opposite the subway entrance. There were in fact actually large vacuum cylinders under the slip coach frames to keep the vacuum over sustained braking.

At the other end of the spectrum to this finesse in operating the vacuum brake is D L Smith's story of the Kircudbright branch train. The vacuum seals on the carriages were a bit worn so the brakes tended to leak off if they had been standing for a while. Apparently one driver at least took advantage of this and regularly worked the train (brakeless) for part of the journey before restoring the vacuum - to save coal! What the guard had to say about this is lost to history.

 

[Taunton]

@Taunton as they say, "Every day's a school day" and you have answered a topic that for years, my mother used to mention and which I had disbelieved. Thank you.

OT alert: my mother returned to the UK at the end of the 1940s (military family) and she used to talk of taking the train from London to Exeter - having to ensure she was in the Exeter slip-coach.
I used to rubbish her story, telling her that she was in the train's Exeter portion and that her carriages had been detached whilst the train was stationary at either Central or St Davids.
One lives and learns, eh...

The Down Cornish Riviera long had three slip coaches, at Westbury, Taunton and Exeter. Not for nothing were all tickets checked prior to boarding each coach. Part of the procedure was different tail lamp arrangements on the back of slip and main train portions, so signalmen along the line could know the train had passed complete for their section. I did read that all the different "Rivvy" slips and different tail lamp patterns on each needed about 20 lamps in total - the poor lampman at Old Oak carriage sidings would have been bringing them out early morning in multiple wheelbarrow loads just for one train.

My grandfather, who did much overseas travelling in pre-WW2 times, would return through London docks early morning, head for Paddington, sending on the way a telegram to the family that he was arriving. 1030 from Paddington, in the slip coach, where I fear he would not only have used his engineering management position to bore the slip guard, but also have inveigled his way into the front compartment to watch the procedure - which you will understand he long afterwards relayed to my childhood self multiple times. Into Taunton at 1250, 15 minutes walk to the house, where lunch was at 1pm, and there was his place at the table laid for him.

 

[Sun Chariot]

The Down Cornish Riviera long had three slip coaches, at Westbury, Taunton and Exeter. Not for nothing were all tickets checked prior to boarding each coach. Part of the procedure was different tail lamp arrangements on the back of slip and main train portions, so signalmen along the line could know the train had passed complete for their section. I did read that all the different "Rivvy" slips and different tail lamp patterns on each needed about 20 lamps in total - the poor lampman at Old Oak carriage sidings would have been bringing them out early morning in multiple wheelbarrow loads just for one train.

I'd heard of "portion-specific" tail-lamps; but the logistics for multi-portion, slip-specific lamp arrangements had failed to register! Great insight - thanks.

My grandfather, who did much overseas travelling in pre-WW2 times, would return through London docks early morning, head for Paddington, sending on the way a telegram to the family that he was arriving. 1030 from Paddington, in the slip coach, where I fear he would not only have used his engineering management position to bore the slip guard, but also have inveigled his way into the front compartment to watch the procedure - which you will understand he long afterwards relayed to my childhood self multiple times. Into Taunton at 1250, 15 minutes walk to the house, where lunch was at 1pm, and there was his place at the table laid for him.

Wonderful backstory.


This article, by Adrian Vaughan, gives a good overview of the GWR's slip operations.
At the very top of ths linked page, is a photo of two carriages being slipped as they approached Reading station's platform. A necessity due to the speed restrictions through Reading's station layout at that time.

The Slip Coach

GWR slip coach

www.gwr.org.uk

The 'Down' approach into Exeter St David's was fairly sedate, IIRC. I would hazard a guess that the Cornish Riviera's Exeter portion was slipped similarly close to the station.

 

[Bank Foot AM]

@Sad Sprinter - this video (from BBC Railway Roundabout) of the final WR slip-coach working, has good - albeit quite brief - footage of the brakeman's activity in the slip carriage; before and following detachment.

That was really interesting to watch. At 0:53 the chap on the platform is seen locking the door (presumably of the slip coach) with his carriage key. Would that have been to prevent passengers from trying to alight before the coach had been shunted into the platform?

 

[Gloster]

That was really interesting to watch. At 0:53 the chap on the platform is seen locking the door (presumably of the slip coach) with his carriage key. Would that have been to prevent passengers from trying to alight before the coach had been shunted into the platform?

I think it was mainly to prevent either someone who arrived at the last minute or had spent too long saying their goodbyes on the platform (and was heading for further down the line) from jumping in the last coach as the train departed. If they can’t organise themselves properly, why should all the other passengers be delayed by ten or fifteen minutes while a special stop is made?

 

[AndrewE]

I think it was mainly to prevent either someone who arrived at the last minute or had spent too long saying their goodbyes on the platform (and was heading for further down the line) from jumping in the last coach as the train departed. If they can’t organise themselves properly, why should all the other passengers be delayed by ten or fifteen minutes while a special stop is made?

why make a special stop? Just tell the slip-coach invader to get a connection forward. They wouldn't do it a second time!
I agree it would have been a sensible precaution though, avoiding unnecessary aggro.

 

[Gloster]

why make a special stop? Just tell the slip-coach invader to get a connection forward. They wouldn't do it a second time!
I agree it would have been a sensible precaution though, avoiding unnecessary aggro.

“Dammit, man! I want to go to my estate in Cornwall. I don’t want to waste my time in some ghastly little provincial town like Taunton. I have already told my chauffeur to have the Rolls waiting for this train at Tresoddit. If you don’t let me go through to my place in the First Class I shall pull the communication cord at the next station…Don’t argue man, I know one of the directors.”

 

[Sun Chariot]

“Dammit, man! I want to go to my estate in Cornwall. I don’t want to waste my time in some ghastly little provincial town like Taunton. I have already told my chauffeur to have the Rolls waiting for this train at Tresoddit. If you don’t let me go through to my place in the First Class I shall pull the communication cord at the next station…Don’t argue man, I know one of the directors.”

"One has given clear instructions for one's [Dean/Churchward] private Saloon carriage to be set down exactly where one expects".

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

O.S. Nock tells the story of being inbound to Paddington on the footplate when a single diesel parcel railcar overtook them on the. relief line. The Inspector drily remarked that was the slip coach they had dropped at Reading catching up with them.

 

[Gloster]

"One has given clear instructions for one's [Dean/Churchwood] private Saloon carriage to be set down exactly where one expects".

Churchward, my dear sir. George Jackson Churchward.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Blast this Samsung autocorrect!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Mar 2026 ==

The Railway Roundabout footage I linked in post 3, mentioned the first recorded slip working occurred in February 1858: an Eastbourne-bound carriage slipped at Haywards Heath, from the rear of a Brighton-bound express.
Other than the GWR's fairly prolific pre-WW2 practice of slip-workings, which other Big Four companies perpetuated Pre-Grouping practice - and typically on which services? I do not know of any on LNER territory.

 

[AndrewE]

Blast this Samsung autocorrect!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Mar 2026 ==

The Railway Roundabout footage I linked in post 3, mentioned the first recorded slip working occurred in February 1858: an Eastbourne-bound carriage slipped at Haywards Heath, from the rear of a Brighton-bound express.
Other than the GWR's fairly prolific pre-WW2 practice of slip-workings, which other Big Four companies perpetuated Pre-Grouping practice - and typically on which services? I do not know of any on LNER territory.

the wikipedia page (while always being fallible) has quite a list. see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slip_coach

 

[Sun Chariot]

the wikipedia page (while always being fallible) has quite a list. see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slip_coach

Thanks for that. Bizarrely, my internet search keywords failed to bring back a Wikipedia result.

 

[Rescars]

The majority of slip workings on London services were slipped from down trains. Unusually, the GWR slipped from up Paddington-bound trains from Birmingham and Bristol to provide direct through services to Victoria. This was in the 1860s, so these were broad gauge workings. Does anyone know how long this went on for?

 

[Merle Haggard]

Blast this Samsung autocorrect!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Mar 2026 ==

The Railway Roundabout footage I linked in post 3, mentioned the first recorded slip working occurred in February 1858: an Eastbourne-bound carriage slipped at Haywards Heath, from the rear of a Brighton-bound express.
Other than the GWR's fairly prolific pre-WW2 practice of slip-workings, which other Big Four companies perpetuated Pre-Grouping practice - and typically on which services? I do not know of any on LNER territory.

In 1936 there was a mishap involving a slip coach for Stratford via Woodford detached from a Down Bradford (see railway Archive). I think that this may have resulted in the LNER ceasing slip coaches.. Competition for London Stratford passengers was quite intense (the LNWR?LMS similarly from Blisworth) so it may have been the only one on the ex G.C. or even the whole LNER.

 

[Gloster]

Heywood Road Junction, opened in 1933 at the east end of the Westbury Avoiding Line, had an Engine Siding so that the locomotive sent up from the station to collect the Slip Coach could wait without blocking a running line; this lasted until 1963. It also had a Down Slipping Distant until 1961.

 

[LickeyIncliner]

The majority of slip workings on London services were slipped from down trains. Unusually, the GWR slipped from up Paddington-bound trains from Birmingham and Bristol to provide direct through services to Victoria. This was in the 1860s, so these were broad gauge workings. Does anyone know how long this went on for?

I'd always understood that 20th-centurry slip workings were all in the down direction, but the Adrian Vaughan article linked by @Sun Chariot (post #9 above) mentions coaches being slipped from up trains at Reading into the 1950s.

What hasn't been mentioned here, or in that article, is the procedure for retrieving slipped coaches for the next working. Presumably those slipped from down trains were attached to an up stopping service to get them back to their starting point? And would the same have had to be done in the opposite direction for those slipped from up trains ?

 

[30907]

What hasn't been mentioned here, or in that article, is the procedure for retrieving slipped coaches for the next working. Presumably those slipped from down trains were attached to an up stopping service to get them back to their starting point? And would the same have had to be done in the opposite direction for those slipped from up trains ?

Essentially, yes, though I recall reading that the GW did something more complicated with the Up slips. I bet someone on here knows

 

[Gloster]

Essentially, yes, though I recall reading that the GW did something more complicated with the Up slips. I bet someone on here knows

Getting them back was a big problem as they were not really suitable for mainline trains due to their lack of gangways (*) making it impossible to visit the restaurant car; long-distance passengers suffered the pangs of hunger due to the convenience of getting to their destination quicker. They could be sent back in local trains, but this was a slow process as they got moved along from one short-distance train to another. The best answer was to use them for slip coaches in the opposite direction: at least the railway got some revenue back on the return journey. This could lead to oddities: the two Paddington-Weymouth coaches in 1954 went up to Bristol on locals and then formed Up slips to Reading, while the Bicester and Princes Risborough ones went on locals to Banbury and strengthened an Up train the following morning. The morning Up slips from Plymouth and Fishguard made most of their return trip empty in parcels trains.

It is hardly surprising they disappeared: they used up a lot of staff and rolling-stock resources, but produced low mileage. They may have still had reasonable loadings, but the cut-off point for profitability was higher than the rest of the fleet.

* - Some had gangways at the end that didn’t have the slip equipment, but as far as I can see few, if any, had anything except emergency gangways at the guard’s end

 

[LickeyIncliner]

Thanks @Gloster for the detailed reply. Your point about using slip coaches in both directions explains the caption about a "double-ended slip coach" for the picture at the beginning of the Vaughan article - which in turn means that even if a pair of coaches were slipped together (as shown in that picture), there would be no connection between them.

Between the costs to the railway and the inconvenience to the passenger (offset as you say by a faster journey - but only in one direction). it seems surprising that slip coaches remained in use as long as they did - though an extra service or two per day would have been more valuable then. I wonder : was there perhaps something different about the way the GWR accounted for costs that contributed to their greater use on that railway? (Their continuation into BR days must have been, like many other things, "just the way it's always been done".)

 

[edwin_m]

Ideally they'd want the slip coaches to be returned to the origin station (generally the London terminus) overnight so they could be joined back onto the appropriate sets for next day's working. But things like sleeper and mail trains probably didn't want to be shunting at intermediate stations. If they could live with only using the slip coaches on alternate days then maybe whatever returned the empty overnight newspaper vans to London during the daytime would have been suitable?

 

[Sun Chariot]

Wikipedia's page, linked post 18, contains a rather interesting photo of two Great Western bogie mail vans, slipped from the rear of an express.
I've yet to find a Dean or Churchward "slip" sorting van (as the stowage van is seemingly rear), so I wonder how the slip was executed.

 

[Rescars]

Over the years there seem to have been slip workings to some pretty unlikely destinations. The SER slipping at what is now Purley for Caterham is a bit of a contrast with today's Caterham and Tattenham Corner locals!

 

[45Fox]

In 1936 there was a mishap involving a slip coach for Stratford via Woodford detached from a Down Bradford (see railway Archive). I think that this may have resulted in the LNER ceasing slip coaches.. Competition for London Stratford passengers was quite intense (the LNWR?LMS similarly from Blisworth) so it may have been the only one on the ex G.C. or even the whole LNER.

According to an interesting article on the Woodford-cum-Membris parish website it led to the ending of slip coach working on the GC main line, they state that the LNER retained one slip coach but don't mention where.

I remember reading years ago that in the early days of the GC London Extension that the Great Central Railway slipped a coach from a down express at Leicester Central, I expect that would have been an early recognition of the fact that they weren't attracting passenger numbers they'd hoped for from the Midland, just one coach for Leicester passengers. I'm sure it would have been an interesting thing to see.