Skegness loco hauled services this Summer

[Bevan Price]

But the ECS may well not be an EMT operated train - could well be GBRf. So how do you ticket that?

Possibly EMT & GBRf could get together and run it as a relief from Nottingham to somewhere like Leicester or Derby ???

 

[IanXC]

You just don't get it, do you?

The whole reason EMT are having to hire in is because their HST fleet is committed to additional trains that day, associated with the southern West Coast engineering works. They do not have the resources to run extra services for the benefit of Class 66 scratchers, which would be financially dubious to say the least.

Err no. I get it perfectly well thank you very much.

I am fully well aware of everything you've said, however the key issue you don't seem to get is that the resources to operate these trains are not EMTs (possibly with the exception of a couple of revenue staff). The locomotives, the coaching stock, the driver(s), and the guard(s) will not be EMT.

Therefore unless there is an operator with all these resources in Derby then they will have to have an ECS run from somewhere. The best way EMT could avoid the service train being full of enthusiasts is to give them another opportunity. Run one or both these legs as a service train/mini tour, and I would suggest 80% of those enthusiasts who would otherwise be filling up the Skegness service would switch to these, therefore allowing the hire in to deliver it's intended benefit.

Now tell me what EMT resources would be required?

Financially the moves would have to happen anyway to get the stock into position. The crew would have to be present. The only cost is the marginal cost in track access charges of a class 1/2 over a 3/5, if enough tickets could not be sold to cover that I would be astounded, and anyway even in the highly unlikely situation it doesn't then you are still benefiting from reducing the demand for your specially laid on Skegness services.

 

[bunnahabhain]

The locos have specifically been asked to be ones that "everybody has had" to avoid a repeat of the Crewe line 37 farce. I really don't get why everybody is so whipped up by this.

 

[43096]

Therefore unless there is an operator with all these resources in Derby then they will have to have an ECS run from somewhere. The best way EMT could avoid the service train being full of enthusiasts is to give them another opportunity. Run one or both these legs as a service train/mini tour, and I would suggest 80% of those enthusiasts who would otherwise be filling up the Skegness service would switch to these, therefore allowing the hire in to deliver it's intended benefit.

But that ECS is nothing to do with EMT! So you want somebody else to run a charter train, with all the issues that go with it, to "benefit" EMT by keeping enthusiasts off their trains?

Sorry, but that is just ridiculous- never going to happen.

 

[IanXC]

But that ECS is nothing to do with EMT! So you want somebody else to run a charter train, with all the issues that go with it, to "benefit" EMT by keeping enthusiasts off their trains?

Sorry, but that is just ridiculous- never going to happen.

The ECS train has as much to do with EMT as the service train! Both are only happening because EMT have contracted a charter operator to run them!

 

[221129]

The ECS train has as much to do with EMT as the service train! Both are only happening because EMT have contracted a charter operator to run them!

The ECS has NOTHING to do with EMT.

 

[Qwerty133]

The ECS has NOTHING to do with EMT.

Unless the train was otherwise going on a ECS to spend the day platformed at Derby the ECS does have to do with EMT.

 

[221129]

Unless the train was otherwise going on a ECS to spend the day platformed at Derby the ECS does have to do with EMT.

Okay clever cloggs.. . The operation of the ECS is nothing to do with EMT.

 

[LowLevel]

The train is contracted to be at Nottingham at a given time. How it gets there is up to GBRF. EMT will be providing a guard from Nottingham local depot and a driver as well to route conduct the GBRF traincrew and some revenue protection staff/managers for support/luggage handling etc.

 

[12CSVT]

The locos have specifically been asked to be ones that "everybody has had" to avoid a repeat of the Crewe line 37 farce. I really don't get why everybody is so whipped up by this.

I'd presume somebody from EMT has been studying the 'GBRF Class 66 passenger workings' thread on the WNXX forum to see which 66s have worked at more than one diesel gala, done the most railtours etc

 

[JonathanH]

The locos have specifically been asked to be ones that "everybody has had" to avoid a repeat of the Crewe line 37 farce. I really don't get why everybody is so whipped up by this.

I wonder how many of the passengers who turned up for 37405 and 37425 in 2013 from Crewe to Derby hadn't had them when they worked. Probably few. An unusual working always attracts attention.

 

[bb21]

I wonder how many of the passengers who turned up for 37405 and 37425 in 2013 from Crewe to Derby hadn't had them when they worked. Probably few. An unusual working always attracts attention.

I wonder how many of those now regret spending hard-earned money being wedged on the train then as they could have had them at a far more leisurely pace on either the Cumbrian Coast or Anglia duties where they have frequently worked in the last year or so.

 

[LowLevel]

I wonder how many of the passengers who turned up for 37405 and 37425 in 2013 from Crewe to Derby hadn't had them when they worked. Probably few. An unusual working always attracts attention.

Quite so - but the main result has been that EMT haven't and won't bother again with anything that is enthusiast friendly in terms of day to day operations unless someone else pays for it (Network Rail in this case). The memory of passengers being left behind at places like Uttoxeter while enthusiasts camped on the train all day is firmly imprinted and really does have an influence. It's pointless bothering to do anything if it's just going to fill up with cranks.

 

[TimboM]

I'd presume somebody from EMT has been studying the 'GBRF Class 66 passenger workings' thread on the WNXX forum to see which 66s have worked at more than one diesel gala, done the most railtours etc

After studying the thread intensely they then opt for 66779 as one of the locos as that's done a good few railtour workings, T'n'T 66746 as that's done a good few passenger workings (via the Caley Sleeper)

 

[DarloRich]

surely the fact that it is a pair of 66's will put off the spotters? Who want sot travel o none of those? I mean it isnt a 20 or a 37 is it

 

[theblackwatch]

After studying the thread intensely they then opt for 66779 as one of the locos as that's done a good few railtour workings, T'n'T 66746 as that's done a good few passenger workings (via the Caley Sleeper)

66779 is busy on a railtour that day - http://www.ukrailtours.com/product/a-great-day-out-to-bath-or-bristol/ .

I think there is an over-estimation in some quarters as to how many people will be going out for this Skegness train. Anyone who's seriously interested in scratching in 'sheds' for haulage will, very likely, have had them already. I don't know anyone who does 66s for mileage, which leaves those who will be doing them for the novelty value or the 'part time' basher who just does things now and then.

 

[Kite159]

66779 is busy on a railtour that day - http://www.ukrailtours.com/product/a-great-day-out-to-bath-or-bristol/ .

I think there is an over-estimation in some quarters as to how many people will be going out for this Skegness train. Anyone who's seriously interested in scratching in 'sheds' for haulage will, very likely, have had them already. I don't know anyone who does 66s for mileage, which leaves those who will be doing them for the novelty value or the 'part time' basher who just does things now and then.

Depends where & when the sheds have worked before. A gala weekend with several runs with no date clashes would have seen more "red pen" action than if they did a single railtour (where it was on the rear so only possible for haulage if on the whole tour itself) which clashed with another event with other locos [i.e. the loco leading at the start would have been the loco leading at the end]

 

[xotGD]

If you are truly hard-core, and don't count stuff fixed* to work on Nedexes or on preserved lines, then getting 2 66s on a service train will be appealing.

*Of course, particular locos have often been fixed to work particular service trains, but that is another story.

 

[theblackwatch]

Depends where & when the sheds have worked before. A gala weekend with several runs with no date clashes would have seen more "red pen" action than if they did a single railtour (where it was on the rear so only possible for haulage if on the whole tour itself) which clashed with another event with other locos [i.e. the loco leading at the start would have been the loco leading at the end]

I suspect we'll find that Saturday's locos will have both worked at galas and on tours before.

 

[Julian G]

The Skegness additionals have been added into the Journey Planner.

 

[High Dyke]

Judging by the loadings on both HST sets, and the subsequent DMU workings then a couple of 6-coach loco hauled sets may be underestimating the requirements. Last year EMT had the brainwave to incorporate the HST into a 'normal' service diagram, due to the stock shortage. That didn't fully work out with insufficient turnaround time at Skeg and bus replacement for the stations the train hadn't called at on the way there and back.

 

[LowLevel]

Certainly we are seeing 8 carriage HST sets full and standing with the TGS cage and both powercar vans full of luggage. It's caused quite a lot of head scratching as 4 years ago no one expected Skegness to take off again like that - it was in decline for over 10 years at least with recorded figures and has started posting an increase. With current available resources it's hard to know what to do - the reinstatement of summer Saturday direct Doncaster to Skegness via Lincoln DMUs to try and relieve the pressure on the Grantham/Nottingham services has been seriously considered but there just aren't the units available.

 

[12CSVT]

Rumours that 66707 and 66763 are the locos involved.

Please don't shoot the messenger if the above info is incorrect

 

[High Dyke]

Allocated to 1S01/1S02:

43059 44071 42137 42136 42135 42339 40754 41113 41111 43073

 

[Qwerty133]

Certainly we are seeing 8 carriage HST sets full and standing with the TGS cage and both powercar vans full of luggage. It's caused quite a lot of head scratching as 4 years ago no one expected Skegness to take off again like that - it was in decline for over 10 years at least with recorded figures and has started posting an increase. With current available resources it's hard to know what to do - the reinstatement of summer Saturday direct Doncaster to Skegness via Lincoln DMUs to try and relieve the pressure on the Grantham/Nottingham services has been seriously considered but there just aren't the units available.

Central Trains had it right with the use of west midlands commuter DMUS on the Skegness services at weekends. Sadly the DaFT decided that combining services that are busiest at weekends with commuter services no longer made sense and allocated the stock solely towards the 5 day demand rather than the 1 day demand.

 

[High Dyke]

Rumours that 66707 and 66763 are the locos involved.

Please don't shoot the messenger if the above info is incorrect

Spot on with the locos - 66707 / 66763. Just awaiting confirmation they are running from Doncaster to Burton for the stock; due off Roberts Road at 05:10.

Here: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R00964/2017/08/26/advanced

 

[JonathanH]

Allocated to 1S01/1S02:

43059 44071 42137 42136 42135 42339 40754 41113 41111 43073

Yes it is, but for some reason it has reservation cards put out for the 0844 Derby to St Pancras.

Shortly to leave Derby.

 

[theblackwatch]

So were there huge queues at Nottingham for a couple of 66s which had, as expected, previously both worked on railtours and at galas?

 

[sd0733]

No queues! I'm on it now and its pretty quiet and civilised with mostly Mark 2 FOs.

 

[theblackwatch]

No queues! I'm on it now and its pretty quiet and civilised with mostly Mark 2 FOs.

As expected then (but not by EMT it seems!)