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Single lines - northern trains
- Thread starter WoodyRail
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Mcr Warrior
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@WoodyRail. Welcome to the forum! Might be useful with regards to answering your query to explain what exactly are 'ET', 'OTS' and 'OTNS' and how these differ from any other types of single line working on the Northern network. Thanks in anticipation! .
matchmaker
Established Member
What do you mean by northern network? Northern Rail? ET is Electric Token working, OTS is one train working with train staff, OTNS is one train working no train staff. They are of course not the only types of single line working...
Yeah, northern rail. I’m needing to do front end turns where I can see one of the following:
- Electric token working
- One train working with staff
- One train working without staff
JH9
Member
ETB and one train working without staff both on the Preston to Ormskirk line. ETB Midgehall to Rufford, then one train working Rufford to Ormskirk.
I think there are more token/staff lines up towards St Bee's/whitehaven but not completely certain.
I think there are more token/staff lines up towards St Bee's/whitehaven but not completely certain.
The Planner
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Depends on which side of the Pennines you want, clearly Windermere, Colne, Ormskirk, Cumbrian coast etc
JH9
Member
Also token work on the Rainford line
Midland Man
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Note that Single Line Working is not the same as Working a/the Single Line - it is the latter we are discussing here!
Off the top of my head, the following are in use:
ETB:
Barrow to Park South uses a “penguin” style tokenless block instrument which uses the typical Western Region method of working.
As you mentioned, York to Harrogate has a more modern version of tokenless block with a block bell, being somewhat of a half way house to Scottish Region tokenless block.
ETB:
- Bransty to St Bees
- Midge Hall - Rufford
- St Bees to Sellafield
- Morecambe - Heysham Power Station
- Oxenholme - Windermere
- Rufford - Ormskirk
- Rose Grove Junction - Colne
- Bare Lane - Morecambe
- Rainford Junction - Headbolt Lane
- Nunthorpe to Battersby
- Battersby to Glaisdale
- Glaisdale - Whitby
Barrow to Park South uses a “penguin” style tokenless block instrument which uses the typical Western Region method of working.
As you mentioned, York to Harrogate has a more modern version of tokenless block with a block bell, being somewhat of a half way house to Scottish Region tokenless block.
Falcon1200
Established Member
How does that one work, given that there is no signalbox at Oxenholme?!!
I think the staff is in a locked box at Oxenholme
Falcon1200
Established Member
Interesting, thanks. It seems an odd set up, given that the single line starts before the branch platform at Oxenholme, into which trains can presumably signalled without the staff. Can a train use this platform while another is on the branch?
driver9000
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The station isn't part of the single line and a train can use platform 3 while there is one on the branch with the staff. The staff is locked into an instrument on platform 3 which releases the signal when it is removed and each time a train comes back from Windermere the staff must be passed through the instrument to release the signal before it can go back to Windermere.
Ask your manager.
Falcon1200
Established Member
Thanks for the information.
I think this is probably the best advice, ask your line manager or other colleagues.
If you are asked to front end, hundreds of trainee drivers will have done it before you and everyone should know the routes people do.
As the OP's location is Leeds, their line manager would probably not be particularly impressed if they wasted a whole day trekking over to somewhere they'll never sign to see a signalling system they'll never use.
Pinus contorta
Member
There's a passing movement scheduled each day when the train comes off the branch at 1628. I saw them about to pass each other the other Friday when I was travelling on a London bound Avanti that stopped there
Mcr Warrior
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Indeed. The mid-afternoon Northern train from Manchester Airport to Windermere is timetabled to take 40 minutes between Lancaster and Oxenholme Lake District, some of which is accounted for it being held outside Oxenholme station. At other times of the day, it will usually take less than half that time.
AverageJoe
On Moderation
That’s a very strange request. Front end turns are about getting used to the life of a driver and experiencing different shifts to get a feel for what is to come.
When I did front end turns for my TOC we were sent out with generic questions to answer but some of them I wasn’t able to see out there on the rail so I gave a brief explanation of what I would have seen if it was on our network.
alf
On Moderation
I agree that it is critically important to ask your driver manager. See first post by WoodyRail on Thursday. But the question in post one of this thread has resulted in lots of interesting information. So very glad woodyRail started the thread.
Out of interest, what method do the single line sections of the Penistone Line between Barnsley and Huddersfield use please?
godfreycomplex
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TCB (colour lights) from Barnsley PSB. Stocksmoor - Huddersfield involves York ROC (and Huddersfield PSB before that) asking Barnsley for a slot
thenorthern
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I can't post the images on here as they are copyrighted but here are some links to images of Whitehaven station in 2010.
This shows the token cupboard when the cupboard is closed.
This is the machine inside of it.
This shows the token cupboard when the cupboard is closed.
This is the machine inside of it.
fishwomp
Established Member
Can you explain that.. Do you mean that Stocksmoor to Huddersfield section is run from Barnsley? If so, that doesn't seem right - as historically when the Stocksmoor to Huddersfield section was singled, and Clayton West Jct box was closed, the Penistone box (Huddersfield Jct) and the Northernmost Barnsley Box (name I have forgotten) were both in action and mechanical - so I'd assumed that Stocksmoor to Huddersfield would have moved from Clayton West Jct to Huddersfield power box.
S101
Member
Stocksmoor to Huddersfield is under full TCB control of Huddersfield WS at York. This does not concern Barnsley.
Penistone to Clayton West is under the control of Barnsley, and Huddersfield WS has to be given the SLOT (by Barnsley) to send a train towards Penistone over the Single Line.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Stocksmoor to Huddersfield does not require a slot, it is not under Barnsley's control area. The slot is for Clayton West to Penistone.
BeijingDave
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To the uninitiated, why so many tokens in different columns?
You don’t want to have a position where you have no tokens at one end of the section - the whole reason ETB was invented.
Previously you had the staff, which only allows one train to go in one direction before one train going in the opposite direction.
Then you had staff and ticket which allows multiple trains to go in one direction before the staff and all tickets are transferred with the last train to the other end of line.
Both of these have issues in that if a train is cancelled or runs out of course it may have to wait a very long time or you have to send someone over on horseback from the next signal box with the staff.
Modern token machines can still need rebalancing, e.g. if everyday you have 10 trains in one direction and 11 in the other you’ll end up with an issue eventually.