Should the major timetable change continue to be in December?

[infobleep]

But then changing in October is only a few weeks into the academic year / term time.

Well the leaf fall timetables appear only a few weeks into the accdemic year.

Some train connections at Guildford are no longer possible as the stopping trains leave earlier and it breaks the connections off trains coming from the south

I'm not saying the leaf fall timetables aren't required, just that their already is a timetable change around this time.

 

[30907]

Well the leaf fall timetables appear only a few weeks into the accdemic year.

I'm not saying the leaf fall timetables aren't required, just that their already is a timetable change around this time.

True, but they are planned and published months ahead (and only apply on a subset of routes - much as the summer seasonal ones do) and never involve fundamental alterations to the service.

 

[infobleep]

True, but they are planned and published months ahead (and only apply on a subset of routes - much as the summer seasonal ones do) and never involve fundamental alterations to the service.

Having to get up earlier is a fundamental alternation to someone's life though

 

[Ianno87]

Having to get up earlier is a fundamental alternation to someone's life though

Not really.

 

[infobleep]

Not really.

Well then are summer timetable changes fundamental? It's only for a several months.

That isn't to dsminish the work involved.

 

[David Goddard]

I personally think that the best times to change would be when the clocks change.
Everyone would know about it from and early point and would be easy to remember. Is also the kinds of times which in the main are not affected by adverse weather to add challenges to bedding in a new timetable. Would still need a few high summer variations but that's fine. Better than December and May

 

[Class 170101]

Then you'd still need a December-ish change for end of leaf fall.

We seem to have worked out September is no good as impacts the end of the summer holidays, neither is December or January so leaves us maybe with October to coincide with leaf-fall?

On the basis you have a change for leaf fall in December so having a full change there might be good (as now). However I would go for October like @HamworthyGoods suggests and the start of leaf fall for a full change. People wouldn't be left behind in October either as the earlier start for leaf fall becomes a later start once leaffall timetable is withdrawn in December.

 

[HST43257]

mid December to early March - winter season (not loads happening)
early March to mid May - semi leisure season
mid May to early September - peak summer season
early September to mid December - semi leisure season + leaf fall

 

[30907]

Well then are summer timetable changes fundamental? It's only for a several months.

That isn't to dsminish the work involved.

We're confusing temporary changes (dated trains, reversed at the end, and reasonably predictable) with permanent ones (mostly minor, but sometimes very substantial). Both affect passengers, but the impact on the system as a whole is very different.

 

[infobleep]

We're confusing temporary changes (dated trains, reversed at the end, and reasonably predictable) with permanent ones (mostly minor, but sometimes very substantial). Both affect passengers, but the impact on the system as a whole is very different.

As I don't work in train planning, I would know what the effect is for the system. I'd just see changes.

There would I imagine be more leaf-all changes than summer timetable changes.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

There would I imagine be more leaf-all changes than summer timetable changes.

That would depend by Region, in the South West there are no leaf-fall changes but a Summer Saturday timetable looks nothing like a Winter Saturday - for example in the Summer Paddington to Paignton is two hourly, in Winter it’s almost non existent as matches the demand profile.

 

[infobleep]

That would depend by Region, in the South West there are no leaf-fall changes but a Summer Saturday timetable looks nothing like a Winter Saturday - for example in the Summer Paddington to Paignton is two hourly, in Winter it’s almost non existent as matches the demand profile.

Would they not input the summer timetable changes months in advance, like they do with the leaf-fall timetables?

 

[mwmbwls]

I think it is useful to remember how complex timetable planning is. Ray Cummings May2020 PWI Lecture is a masterclass in explaining the railway equivalent of the conjurer's trick of spinning plates on canes. Timetable Planning (thepwi.org) The fact that planning starts 16 months before the introduction of the timetable and has to allow multiple reconciliations of competing/changing interests would probably mean that to introduce a new timetable date - the existing "old timetable" would have to be extended to run for more than a six month period because I cannot see how it could be done on a shorter timescale.

 

[YorksLad12]

I think it is useful to remember how complex timetable planning is. Ray Cummings May2020 PWI Lecture is a masterclass in explaining the railway equivalent of the conjurer's trick of spinning plates on canes. Timetable Planning (thepwi.org) The fact that planning starts 16 months before the introduction of the timetable and has to allow multiple reconciliations of competing/changing interests would probably mean that to introduce a new timetable date - the existing "old timetable" would have to be extended to run for more than a six month period because I cannot see how it could be done on a shorter timescale.

If you moved the date back to October it would still be 16 months. You'd 'just' be starting two months earlier.

(Note: I do understand it's a complex issue!)

 

[The Planner]

We managed with a 12 month one for the Olympics, you could arguably transition with a Dec - Oct offer.