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Should table seats be abolished in quiet coaches?
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Virgin TMs do sometimes ask that conversations are kept to a reasonable level (I can't remember the exact wording).
Many people have headphones on that can be heard halfway down the carriage - I guess that's the point of it.
graham43404
Member
I have not heard Virgin do that myself but have heard that on FGW services I have been on.
Schnellzug
Established Member
that's very true. The personal entertainment system that really is personal hasn't been invented yet.
Regards headphones, it's the poxy iPhone standard and other 'in-ear' headphones which seems to leak around 40-50% of their sound outwards. If you buy a decent set of full 'over-ear' headphones, they are not only far more comfortable, they also leak no sound.
I don't get this fetish for not wanting groups to talk in the quiet coach some have mentioned, such as the OP. If you want that much control over the travel environment then it will have to be a taxi or your own car I'm afraid - stop getting so wound up by real life. I once had some older lady complain about the contents of someones conversation (not abusive - Jordan, Big Brother etc) and it turned out she had sat closer to earwig as she couldn't listen in from her previous seat. Needless to say I told her to stop being such a miserable busy body.
I don't get this fetish for not wanting groups to talk in the quiet coach some have mentioned, such as the OP. If you want that much control over the travel environment then it will have to be a taxi or your own car I'm afraid - stop getting so wound up by real life. I once had some older lady complain about the contents of someones conversation (not abusive - Jordan, Big Brother etc) and it turned out she had sat closer to earwig as she couldn't listen in from her previous seat. Needless to say I told her to stop being such a miserable busy body.
I heard that for the first time on a Virgin train this week. This is one area where the French seem to have got it right, there are signs on TGVs pointing people to the vestibules to make phone calls in all coaches. Passengers appeared to be ok with this, as that is what people did.
I rarely travel now without my trusty Shure noise isolating earphones, though I do still occasionally ask people to turn down their music as I can still hear theirs above mine!
I'm with Sprinterguy, Mojo and Mumrar: it's the quiet coach, not the silent coach.
The only regulations shown to passengers is that they shouldn't be using audio-visual equipment - that is, phones, mp3 players, dvd players - unless headphones are in and no-one can hear the noise, or unless they go to the vestibules etc.
I also think it's reasonable to expect people to not chat loudly/shout. Ultimately, what is 'loud' is of course subjective, hence complaints/conflict. For this reason I can see some logic in removing tables,which are more likely to be inadvertently booked by groups. This would have the happy coincidence of increasing capacity by 4-8 passengers, depending on the train.
The only regulations shown to passengers is that they shouldn't be using audio-visual equipment - that is, phones, mp3 players, dvd players - unless headphones are in and no-one can hear the noise, or unless they go to the vestibules etc.
I also think it's reasonable to expect people to not chat loudly/shout. Ultimately, what is 'loud' is of course subjective, hence complaints/conflict. For this reason I can see some logic in removing tables,which are more likely to be inadvertently booked by groups. This would have the happy coincidence of increasing capacity by 4-8 passengers, depending on the train.
It's not about stopping talking, though. It's a sensible suggestion as people in groups naturally try and book tables, ro prefer to sit at them if available, and therefore may, even inadvertently, cause more noise.
I have travelled several times with a large group of people. We are not badly behaved, foul mouthed or even boisterous, but when there are 15 of us we tend to hold conversations over several sets of tables or seats. I don;t think that is appropriate ina quite carriage! I hasten to add we've never been in one either as a group!
I realise that that is a bit of an extreme case. But even smaller groups of three or four will take more loudly and more often across a table. I think it's a sense of space - an airline seat feels more private. Despite it being the UK and our obvious reluctance to speak to strangers, strangers at a table ar emore inclined to converse than they are in airline style seats.
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Precisely!
But these are prohibited in every carriage, not just those designated ''quiet.''
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I am not sure what you are trying to suggest here, but it seems to back up my point in a thread about talking, not using other electronic devices.
In any case, the use of other electronic devices in noisy mode is prohibited in every carriage, under the Byelaws, so an announcement only stating it is prohibited in the quiet coach may be contributory to the decline of standards on trains recently.
Perhaps the announcement should say:
''Coach A is the quiet zone and we ask customers seated in this area not to use mobile phones and to switch phones off or on to silent mode now. Regardless of where you are seated, please keep all noise to a minimum, particularly when using electronic devices.''
Prohibited, maybe. Not enforced in the slightest though.
WestCoast
Established Member
Personally, I don't see the problem with one carriage being designated not just as 'quiet', but as 'almost silent'. Then there can be no grey areas about what is acceptable and what is not. It may seem a little draconian, but I think many people on long intercity journeys would appreciate that atmosphere.
It's a concept I've seen on a ferry in Greece, there was a 'silent reading/relaxing room'.
Of course, this is just my personal opinion on the matter.
It's a concept I've seen on a ferry in Greece, there was a 'silent reading/relaxing room'.
Of course, this is just my personal opinion on the matter.
I was once spoken to by the guard for my walkman (it was the 90s, don't judge me) being too loud, which it was. That said, it was a loco hauled Bangor to BHM, late sunday night, no-one else on the train, and vintage stock with the seperate compartments. Seemed a little odd for him to complain.
T163R
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coupwotcoup
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Or he wasn't a Take That fan?
Well said that man! Why travel at all? You wouldn't have to experience other people and the inconvenient fact of their existence if you stayed in your bedroom all day every day.
WestCoast
Established Member
I don't mind the public transport environment at all, it can be quite sociable and jovial sometimes. Other people's conversations e.t.c can be interesting if you are travelling alone or you might get an interesting seat companion (I sat next to a guy with a puppy the other day, and we were talking about breeds e.t.c).
However, I've always thought about the quiet coach as a designated, well-marked place where people want a bit of peace (perhaps after a long day e.t.c), I appreciate the environment if I want to try and get a bit of sleep at the end of a long journey. I'd rather people didn't talk loudly in this well-marked area. It's not just leisure travellers on a day out in standard class!
I do most of my long-distance travel on Pendolinos due to my location in the country (not through choice) and it's not the most comfortable travelling environment anyway, especially at night where there is nothing to look at. On a Pendo, there are 4 other standard class carriages available for socialising e.t.c. It's not a case of being anti-social but rather having a quiet area of the train for rest or work, which I think is entirely reasonable.
That said, it does depend a little on the context. Someone talking relatively quietly in the middle of the day in the quiet zone wouldn't bother me at all, nor would a few bleeps e.t.c.
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graham43404
Member
To respond to a couple of posts ago about me not wanting groups to talk at all in the quiet coach, that's far from what I think about this.
There is talking in a normal manner and then there is having loud conversation with equally loud laughter or cackling. In both instances I would say someone on there mobile phone would be quieter.
If people want a loud conversation then why would they not sit in the other coaches where they will not disturb people wanting a quiet enviroment or a bit of a rest? Like FGW say "please keep noise to a minimum"
There is talking in a normal manner and then there is having loud conversation with equally loud laughter or cackling. In both instances I would say someone on there mobile phone would be quieter.
If people want a loud conversation then why would they not sit in the other coaches where they will not disturb people wanting a quiet enviroment or a bit of a rest? Like FGW say "please keep noise to a minimum"
Maybe they ticked 'no preference' in the booking engine in the absence of a choice to NOT sit in the quiet coach, which sometimes puts you in the quiet coach anyway? It's happened to me and my noisy young family that we've been reserved in the quiet coach without wanting to be.
WestCoast
Established Member
Then the quiet coach is effectively meaningless. That is the fault of the booking system and not the occupants of the quiet coach or the guard. In any case, booking systems should be set to avoid the quiet coach if at all possible, unless the client requests to be seated there.
The way I see it, there aren't really any disadvantages to having a quiet coach. The crucial issue is that it is observed, otherwise what is the point of having one?
I would support the enforcement of a family carriage as well, as has been used by Virgin and FGW in the past.
lookingforit35
Member
Weirdly, some people successfully avoid loud mobile phone conversations in the quiet carriage, and believe they are texting or gaming quietly to themselves. Unfortunately they havent quite managed to master the simple task of turning off the device's keyboard volume. Hours of annoyance unless you point out the problem.
Odd really. Surely you'd notice the noise you were making?
Odd really. Surely you'd notice the noise you were making?
Not sure about nowadays because I don't get to travel EC very often; but certainly when Mark 4 sets first had quiet coaches the notices ended with the words "and avoid making any unneccesary noise".
Very few conversations can ever be deemed neccessary, so it must follow that it is not unreasonable to expect travel in a quiet coach to be almost in silence.
As to table seats, yes do away with them in QC, let those of us who enjoy peace and quiet retreat into our own little areas and enjoy our journey without having computers clacking away and little jonny jumping up and down opposite etc.
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And if that happens I would expect you and your noisy young family to respect where you are, and become a quiet young family in the same way that smokers are expected not to smoke in non smoking areas.........
Very few conversations can ever be deemed neccessary, so it must follow that it is not unreasonable to expect travel in a quiet coach to be almost in silence.
As to table seats, yes do away with them in QC, let those of us who enjoy peace and quiet retreat into our own little areas and enjoy our journey without having computers clacking away and little jonny jumping up and down opposite etc.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And if that happens I would expect you and your noisy young family to respect where you are, and become a quiet young family in the same way that smokers are expected not to smoke in non smoking areas.........
No family coaches, but seem to have the child packs at the buffet at the weekend.
Or see if there are seats in a different coach!
And what about those who book into the quiet coach so that they can work on their computers (virtually impossible in AS)? One of the chief selling points of rail for business travel is that it does not "waste" travelling time. (And don't say that all business travel is FC anyway!)
I seem to remember in the XP64 set there was a suggestion of a "travelling office", in that case an area fitted out with copiers and a secretary (I can't think of much other technology that could have been included). Perhaps we should have a "working" coach, single seats but with tables big enough to hold a laptop and some papers.
Schnellzug
Established Member
... "Eventually, Ford arrived at a conclusion: if people stop talking for too long, their brains start to work."
Douglas Adams.
Marton
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Totally agree.
I much prefer the quiet coach to work in, now that EC have them in 1st.
Working, and using a laptp needs a proper table - the airline seat tables don't allow the laptop to open enough to see the screen properly if you are reasonably tall.
I disagree. I have Sennheiser in-ear headphones (which weren't expensive, I think they were around £25) which I can use and are not audible to others. There are similar on-ear styles that work as well. The problem is that the cheap crap headphones that come with iPhones and many other devices are inefficient, and spew sound out into the surrounding area, meaning the user turns it up even louder in order to hear it properly.
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