Should railcards be linked/verified to online accounts?

[OhNoAPacer]

Meet Bob Madeupperson, he has a Senior Railcard, his wife isn't eligible so if they travel together they use a Two Together Railcard. Occasionally they take their grandchildren on trips, so they also have a Friends and Family Railcard. Bob also sometimes needs to book rail travel for his mother who has a Disabled Person's Railcard.
Bob, uses various booking sites depending on his requirements for that booking.
Bob is spending a lot of time uploading Railcard details to booking sites. He dreams of days past when he just selected the appropriate one at the time of booking.

 

[rmHawk765]

Meet Bob Madeupperson, he has a Senior Railcard, his wife isn't eligible so if they travel together they use a Two Together Railcard. Occasionally they take their grandchildren on trips, so they also have a Friends and Family Railcard. Bob also sometimes needs to book rail travel for his mother who has a Disabled Person's Railcard.
Bob, uses various booking sites depending on his requirements for that booking.
Bob is spending a lot of time uploading Railcard details to booking sites. He dreams of days past when he just selected the appropriate one at the time of booking.

Does put it into perspective quite nicely.

 

[styles]

Just abolish Railcards and reduce fares, much simpler.

 

[OhNoAPacer]

Just abolish Railcards and reduce fares, much simpler.

The noise you hear are railcard holders with burning torches marching on your house

 

[jfollows]

Meet Bob Madeupperson, he has a Senior Railcard, his wife isn't eligible so if they travel together they use a Two Together Railcard. Occasionally they take their grandchildren on trips, so they also have a Friends and Family Railcard. Bob also sometimes needs to book rail travel for his mother who has a Disabled Person's Railcard.
Bob, uses various booking sites depending on his requirements for that booking.
Bob is spending a lot of time uploading Railcard details to booking sites. He dreams of days past when he just selected the appropriate one at the time of booking.

Yes, I have a Senior Railcard but when I travel with my husband we use a Two Together Railcard, nothing significantly unusual in that I don’t think.

 

[AlterEgo]

There's a reason why Railcards still work the way they work. It has its issues but you're going to cause more trying to set up any sort of booking-time verification system for them.

Issues like what?

 

[andy33gmail]

The noise you hear are railcard holders with burning torches marching on your house

However it’s hard not to feel victimised by the current system of applying a 50% penalty fare to anyone aged between 35-60

 

[styles]

The noise you hear are railcard holders with burning torches marching on your house

Thing is, you can keep most of the Railcard discounts just without the Railcards. 16-17, 16-25, 26-30, Senior - just make it a requirement to carry proof of age. Disabled, Veterans, HM Forces - carry one of the forms of proof previously needed to get the Railcard. Two Together or Family & Friends - discount tickets in a similar way to GroupSave.

Alternatively, just reduce fares across the board and not have so many different discount schemes. I don't begrudge people currently having Railcards, though since becoming ineligible for them, I drive more of my long distance trips. I'd help fill up some quieter ScotRail services to the mountains if the fares came down a bit.

 

[AlterEgo]

Meet Bob Madeupperson, he has a Senior Railcard, his wife isn't eligible so if they travel together they use a Two Together Railcard. Occasionally they take their grandchildren on trips, so they also have a Friends and Family Railcard. Bob also sometimes needs to book rail travel for his mother who has a Disabled Person's Railcard.
Bob, uses various booking sites depending on his requirements for that booking.
Bob is spending a lot of time uploading Railcard details to booking sites. He dreams of days past when he just selected the appropriate one at the time of booking.

Imagine you could just pay some money to get a membership and then use the membership to buy discounted tickets. Amazing. It's how every other subscription works.

The fact that Railcards are basically a subscription that never prevents unauthorised access to the product is very problematic. Not least because it's a revenue and fraud risk, but also because of the criminal jeopardy it places upon the user of that subscription. Mental system, and deeply unserious.

 

[OhNoAPacer]

So, some people want to move from a system of checking a railcard is held during travel to one where proof of railcard ownership must be provided at purchase.

Dodgy Dave is eligible for a disabled railcard, he purchases tickets but sells them at a small profit to other people, now how are we going to catch these passengers?

 

[The exile]

There are two issues - one is people making mistakes and one is fraud. To deal with the mistakes how about the following tick box options:
I hold a railcard Y/N
Y then asks to you to select the type and enter its expiry date.
N then has a “I intend to buy a railcard before travel or am buying a ticket for someone else” box - tick that and you are offered the selection - each one brings up an appropriate set of statements that you have to tick to confirm your eligibility. (As would purchasing a railcard online).
Having got that far on either you then go to the ticket sale itself.
You could add an option to save the railcard details (until the expiry date) but would in future have to confirm that you wanted your own railcard discount applied.

 

[lachlan]

Alternatively, just reduce fares across the board and not have so many different discount schemes. I don't begrudge people currently having Railcards, though since becoming ineligible for them, I drive more of my long distance trips. I'd help fill up some quieter ScotRail services to the mountains if the fares came down a bit.

Sure - as long as all fares are cut by 1/3 so disabled railcard holders don't lose out.

 

[styles]

Sure - as long as all fares are cut by 1/3 so disabled railcard holders don't lose out.

If you wanted to retain a discount for disabled travellers with qualifying conditions, you'd just do what everybody else does - require carrying proof of disability. I took my mum (powered wheelchair user) from Wales to Disneyland and between Avanti, Eurostar, TGV, Disneyland Resorts; it was only Avanti who needed us to apply for and pay for a designated card in advance, even when I was getting things 'free' as a companion (she's not very confident with the chair so does generally need a companion). This seems to be the same when we go to the theatre, cinema, National Trust, museums, etc, so I'm not sure UK rail needs to be so special about requiring people to apply for (and pay for) a Railcard.

 

[Hadders]

There are two issues - one is people making mistakes and one is fraud. To deal with the mistakes how about the following tick box options:
I hold a railcard Y/N
Y then asks to you to select the type and enter its expiry date.
N then has a “I intend to buy a railcard before travel or am buying a ticket for someone else” box - tick that and you are offered the selection - each one brings up an appropriate set of statements that you have to tick to confirm your eligibility. (As would purchasing a railcard online).
Having got that far on either you then go to the ticket sale itself.
You could add an option to save the railcard details (until the expiry date) but would in future have to confirm that you wanted your own railcard discount applied.

That’s going to be a very poor user experience.

 

[AlterEgo]

So, some people want to move from a system of checking a railcard is held during travel to one where proof of railcard ownership must be provided at purchase.

Dodgy Dave is eligible for a disabled railcard, he purchases tickets but sells them at a small profit to other people, now how are we going to catch these passengers?

You make tickets linked to proof of identity and have them in passenger names, like many other countries do without the sky caving in.

 

[signed]

SNCF should only ever be discussed as an example of not do things, at least when it comes to ticketing / journey planning.

On this one SNCF is very much one that does it best. Though it's helped by the nominative nature of the tickets.

You don't faffle with anything, buy the card, it's immediately in your SNCF account (and that is true even outside the SNCF Connect app/site, as they are email-linked, and Trainline as well) it's auto-selected, you pay for your ticket and you're done. You can push the start of the Railcard up to 3 months in the future

As long as you set a picture in your profile, you don't even have to carry the card at all on TGV, everything is saved and displayed on the inspector's handheld and most inspectors match identity based on the picture shown.

You don't have to wrestle with a Railcard app that wants network...

It works basically the same in Switzerland though it's even better as everything, tickets and Railcard is on the Swisspass smartcard.

 

[Llanigraham]

Thing is, you can keep most of the Railcard discounts just without the Railcards. 16-17, 16-25, 26-30, Senior - just make it a requirement to carry proof of age. Disabled, Veterans, HM Forces - carry one of the forms of proof previously needed to get the Railcard. Two Together or Family & Friends - discount tickets in a similar way to GroupSave.

I have a 3 year Disabled Rail Card due to an invisible qualifying problem; do you expect me to carry the consultants letter with me at all time?

SNCF:
When friends have bought us tickets in France, because I couldn't understand the website, the form asked for our dates of birth and we were automatically given "senior citizen" discounts.

And as for not having to carry an ID card, when I look in my wallet I've got at least 3 cards with my photo and details on, along with my Driving Licence. I really do not understand this British thing about not having a National ID Card.

 

[35B]

On this one SNCF is very much one that does it best, though it's helped by the nominative nature of the tickets.

You don't faffle with anything, buy the card, it's immediately in your profile, it's auto-selected, you pay for your ticket and you're done. You can start a Railcard 3 months in the future

As long as you set a picture in your profile, you don't even have to carry the card at all on TGV, everything is saved and most inspectors match identity based on the picture shown.

You don't have to wrestle with a Railcard app that wants network...

It works basically the same in Switzerland though it's even better as everything, tickets and Railcard is on the Swisspass smartcard.

How does that work when purchasing on behalf of someone else?

 

[signed]

How does that work when purchasing on behalf of someone else?

You can either pre-save their info in your account as a traveller (in which you save their card number, which stays the same as the first issue even when renewed. Which you would probably already have done if it's any frequent) or enter the card number at the payment stage if it's one-time. Admit it's not really that seemless.

I don't know how it works in CH though.

 

[The exile]

That’s going to be a very poor user experience.

Only the first time - and being fined £xyz because you’ve booked a ticket with an invalid railcard is worse. If you really don’t like it, there’s that radical newfangled invention called a ticket office!

 

[35B]

You can either pre-save their info in your account as a traveller (in which you save their card number, which stays the same as the first issue even when renewed. Which you would probably already have done if it's any frequent) or enter the card number at the payment stage if it's one-time. Admit it's not really that seemless.

I don't know how it works in CH though.

Thank you.

 

[NeilCr]

I have a 3 year Disabled Rail Card due to an invisible qualifying problem; do you expect me to carry the consultants letter with me at all time?

Yes. I was interested in how this would work practically

Would anyone inspecting/selling the tickets be qualified to judge the evidence

For example you can send a copy of your dispensing prescription from a hearing aid supplier to support your application. Will they be able to understand and interpret that

 

[Belperpete]

Step 1: stop retail sites from remembering that a railcard was used on a previous purchase, so it has to be selected each time.

Step 2: if someone selects a Railcard, at the final stage of the purchase bring up a pop-up that tells them the ticket isn't valid if they can't show the relevant card, with a yes/no to continue the purchase. And make the popup distinctive to each type of Railcard, e.g. different colour, image, etc.

Anyone who has gone through that is going to have a job on their hands to convince anyone that they selected it accidentally.

 

[thedbdiboy]

Back in the 1980s you generally didn't need to buy a ticket months ahead of travel to obtain a half decent price.

That's a subjective judgement. It's one of those myths perpetuated largely by people that weren't around back then that the 80s railway was a paradise of affordable fares, when the complaint back then was that fares were 'too high'. Railcard discounts were not allowed at all on BR advance booking APEX fares of the time (which were offered on a few select routes),

But more to the point, your comment reinforces the one I was making about how Railcards have not been developed as an integral part of the fares system. The way that discounts work should ideally have developed alongside the growth of advance fares.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Oct 2025 ==

Just abolish Railcards and reduce fares, much simpler.

Great idea! Where do you want the bill sent?

 

[TUC]

Just abolish Railcards and reduce fares, much simpler.

And you make that work on a business level to come out with the same fare revenue in what way?

 

[30907]

However it’s hard not to feel victimised by the current system of applying a 50% penalty fare to anyone aged between 35-60

31-60
It discriminates against people who were aged 31 at birth and will be dead before they reach 60 - or to be fair, reached this country at 31 and will leave at 60. And travel without a Significant Other or a child.
Are either of these significant numbers?

 

[OhNoAPacer]

You make tickets linked to proof of identity and have them in passenger names, like many other countries do without the sky caving in.

So we have a railway where you need to carry ID. Remembering that some people don't have passports or driving licenses and that we don't have compulsory ID cards in the UK, what form of ID is going to be acceptable in order to prove one us the person named on the ticket?

 

[AlterEgo]

So we have a railway where you need to carry ID. Remembering that some people don't have passports or driving licenses and that we don't have compulsory ID cards in the UK, what form of ID is going to be acceptable in order to prove one us the person named on the ticket?

A rail photocard would suffice if you don't carry ID with you all the time but buy tickets online.

 

[styles]

And you make that work on a business level to come out with the same fare revenue in what way?

In what way wouldn't it work?

 

[Llanigraham]

In what way wouldn't it work?

You seem to be stating that all Railcards should be removed and that fares should be reduced to the level of current Railcard discounted fares, which obviously reduces the railway's income. So how do you propose to replace that income and bring it up to the current (insufficient) level?