Should more Stations be request stops?

[notlob.divad]

Having watch the first two of Paul Merton's series, I was contemplating if, with modern technology there would be any merit in turning some more of our lesser used stations into request stops.

I can imagine there are an awful lot of stations around the country where the station gets a significant number of passengers at the morning and evening peaks, but during the day and in the evenings trains regularly stop with no-one embarking or alighting.

Purely for a more energy efficient operation it would make sense if trains didn't stop unless they had to.

Equally there are some stations which receive no stopping service on a Sunday despite having regular trains passing through. I see no reasons why some stations couldn't be request stops on a Sunday. After all the country is rapidly becoming a 24/7 society, and Sundays are no longer seen as special by many.

 

[a_c_skinner]

Middlesbrough to Whitby seems a service where this might work and cut travel times.

A lot of the stops seem to be approached at low speed and are often superfluous.

(Esk of course, but I cannot edit the title.)

Andrew

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Maybe a bus stop bell would be easier?
Request stopping status is something Spondon needs.

 

[Whistler40145]

Would Salwick be a contender for request stop status?

 

[kevconnor]

Are there any areas where there is DOO in operation and there are request stops, if so how does this work when alighting?

 

[Whistler40145]

That's an interesting question.

 

[Carlisle]

Are there any areas where there is DOO in operation and there are request stops, if so how does this work when alighting?

As far as I'm aware no , its never been used routinely under DOO conditions in the Uk but it does operate abroad

 

[CheesyChips]

I've often thought this whilst travelling along some rural lines.

I wonder if we need something more comprehensive than sticking your arm out to get the train to stop for this to become feasible? Perhaps a push button on the platform that activates some kind of signal at the end of the platform telling the driver to stop.

 

[notlob.divad]

Maybe a bus stop bell would be easier?

I am sure there are many different things that could be contemplated as methods for stopping the train. I was thinking a simple text message or something of that nature. Something particularly modern would be an App that you accessed through the stations WiFi so it knows where you are. However I appreciate not everyone has the most modern communication devices and not every station, (particularly small ones) don't have wifi and may not have 3G.

However, suggestions, yes this was the kind of thing I was looking for, where might more request stops be appropriate. And I am not just thinking rural branch lines, I think there are probably commuter stations that are very strong candidates.

My understanding is that to save any time, they would have to be in multiples between full service stops as you have to allow time to stop at a proportion of them whilst still sticking to the timetable. You cannot do that if a stop is on its own between 2 full service stops.

Some suggestions on my local line specifically as request stops on a Sunday. Bryn and Garswood and on the same line Eccleston Park and Thatto Heath.
In each case, the first gets no Sunday service, whilst the later has every train stopping. Why could all 4 not be Sunday only request stops? I am not sure of usage in the none peak hours, but there must be some statistician in the DfT that has exactly the kind of data needed to work this kind of thing out

 

[The Planner]

Expensive and open to abuse just as much as the current Mk1 human arm. We time request stops as stops without dwells so you arent really going to gain anything.

 

[Parallel]

In my opinion, you wouldn't be able to have DOO and request stops. I imagine if DOO was rolled out on a line that had at least one request stop, the station would be given mandatory status (but fewer booked stops).

I personally think that any station that gets around 20,000 entries/exits a year or less could be considered for request stop status, where infrastructure allows. Avoncliff used to be a request stop, but due to the signal near the end of the platform, I read there was an occasion where a driver got distracted by the request stop procedure (guard buzzing that nobody wanted to get off, driver checking the platform) that the signal was passed at danger. You also wouldn't be able to request stop any stations that have adjacent manual barriers for level crossings, without spending money to make infrastructure changes.

I do think more stations could be made request stops however. As others have said, a fair few quieter stations must get most of their traffic at peak times, and are basically deserted out of those times - (but should still offer an optional stop service because a minimal service isn't going to help growth) St. Andrews Road, I'm looking at you! I'd also take into account the station facilities and the line it serves too. Umberleigh on the Tarka Line is a fairly heavily used request stop, especially for the line (but has just one platform, a help point and a shelter) but nothing would be lost if the train didn't stop there, even though I've (so far) never been on a train that's gone straight past. (The only mandatory stops on the line are the two stations used as passing loops, and the terminus)

 

[LowLevel]

Maybe a bus stop bell would be easier?
Request stopping status is something Spondon needs.

No it isn't, trains can be travelling very quickly through Spondon so reducing their speed right down on a busy stretch of railway is not desirable. It's a dormitory station mostly used by local commuters travelling to Nottingham and I would imagine wouldn't be used much in the day time when there are plenty of buses. The A52 is so rubbish in rush hours though that it's useful for commuters.

 

[notlob.divad]

Expensive and open to abuse just as much as the current Mk1 human arm. We time request stops as stops without dwells so you arent really going to gain anything.

The issue with the MK1 human arm is surely that on the faster lines the train has to slow down anyway on approaching the request stops in case there is someone there who wants it to stop. By having some system that must be activated a period of time in advance of the request stop calling time, to inform the driver, the train would only have to slow down if it was having to stop. Otherwise it could run though without the need to slow down.

 

[317666]

On the RhB in Switzerland, if you wish to alight at a request stop you just press a button at the end of the coach, much like alighting from a bus. If you want to board at a request stop, you press a button on the platform next to the departures screen which sets off a trackside light, so the driver knows to stop. I think this would work here either on DOO services or non-DOO services with frequent stops which could prevent the guard from checking the whole train in time.

 

[The Planner]

The issue with the MK1 human arm is surely that on the faster lines the train has to slow down anyway on approaching the request stops in case there is someone there who wants it to stop. By having some system that must be activated a period of time in advance of the request stop calling time, to inform the driver, the train would only have to slow down if it was having to stop. Otherwise it could run though without the need to slow down.

Timetable wise though you will still have to stick a great wodge of performance time approaching the terminus or other long dwell to cater for any request stops you make.

 

[Bevan Price]

I am sure there are many different things that could be contemplated as methods for stopping the train. I was thinking a simple text message or something of that nature. Something particularly modern would be an App that you accessed through the stations WiFi so it knows where you are. However I appreciate not everyone has the most modern communication devices and not every station, (particularly small ones) don't have wifi and may not have 3G.

However, suggestions, yes this was the kind of thing I was looking for, where might more request stops be appropriate. And I am not just thinking rural branch lines, I think there are probably commuter stations that are very strong candidates.

My understanding is that to save any time, they would have to be in multiples between full service stops as you have to allow time to stop at a proportion of them whilst still sticking to the timetable. You cannot do that if a stop is on its own between 2 full service stops.

Some suggestions on my local line specifically as request stops on a Sunday. Bryn and Garswood and on the same line Eccleston Park and Thatto Heath.
In each case, the first gets no Sunday service, whilst the later has every train stopping. Why could all 4 not be Sunday only request stops? I am not sure of usage in the none peak hours, but there must be some statistician in the DfT that has exactly the kind of data needed to work this kind of thing out

Eccleston Park is expected to get a Sunday service from the December 2017 timetable change (according to a LibDem local "news" letter for Eccleston). I don't think that request stops on this line would be an advantage - on my trips, there is always at least one person alighting or joining at each station. (OT for this topic - an improved sunday service during shopping hours would be very welcome on this line.)

 

[notlob.divad]

Eccleston Park is expected to get a Sunday service from the December 2017 timetable change (according to a LibDem local "news" letter for Eccleston).

Good news if that is true.

I don't think that request stops on this line would be an advantage - on my trips, there is always at least one person alighting or joining at each station.

It was specifically the Sunday service I was looking at simply because there are two stations that currently have no service at all. However if what you say is right, hopefully all will get a better service when the Electric trains start running Sundays too.

(OT for this topic - an improved sunday service during shopping hours would be very welcome on this line.)

Agreed.

 

[2HAP]

Yes, they should.

For a start, all stations with a less than one-train-every-two hours service should be made into request stops at not less than that level of service. This includes all those stations with a stupid one train per day or less service.

 

[exile]

Yes, they should.

For a start, all stations with a less than one-train-every-two hours service should be made into request stops at not less than that level of service. This includes all those stations with a stupid one train per day or less service.

Well, that depends. Some of those stations are approached at 70 mph or more!

 

[IanD]

Well, that depends. Some of those stations are approached at 70 mph or more!

Not if the train is likely to stop. Being a request stop doesn't mean that all trains passing through would be required to stop if someone sticks their arm out - only the one's that are listed in the timetable as stopping by request.

 

[Llanigraham]

Yes, they should.

For a start, all stations with a less than one-train-every-two hours service should be made into request stops at not less than that level of service. This includes all those stations with a stupid one train per day or less service.

Why?
Perhaps you would like to provide some reasons for that statement?

 

[RichmondCommu]

Maybe a bus stop bell would be easier?
Request stopping status is something Spondon needs.

For the current services or additional services?

 

[crispy1978]

It's obviously doable - they did it on the East Lancashire Line in 2012 - and on lines where timing performance is an issue, then it would make sense you'd have thought.

Looking at the Esk Valley Line - I don't know if interaction with NYMR is an issue?

 

[al78]

If a passenger wanted to catch a train at a request stop at night (e.g. a winter evening), is there a possibility that the driver would not see the passenger signalling and unfortunately go straight through (some stations are not well lit)?

 

[DarloRich]

You could make a couple of the Marston Vale stations ( Kempston Hardwick/Apsley Guise request stops if you really wanted to but I don't think it would serve any purpose or increase punctuality

 

[Antman]

If a passenger wanted to catch a train at a request stop at night (e.g. a winter evening), is there a possibility that the driver would not see the passenger signalling and unfortunately go straight through (some stations are not well lit)?

Almost inevitable I would think, when I was on the buses a regular reason for complaints was drivers not seeing intending passengers especially in the dark.

 

[LordCreed]

Well, that depends. Some of those stations are approached at 70 mph or more!

Why does line speed matter? You should be approaching the station at a speed where you can stop, regardless of if the line speed is 50mph or 125mph.

Also, just because the station is a request stop doesn't mean every train should be booked to call on request. Take the Barnstaple line for example, where some trains stop at some stations by request.

 

[SeanG]

You could make a couple of the Marston Vale stations ( Kempston Hardwick/Apsley Guise request stops if you really wanted to but I don't think it would serve any purpose or increase punctuality

Would they be the only overhead electrically served request stops? I'm struggling to think of any others. I presume that there are a number on the southern 3rd rail network

 

[Greenback]

Why does line speed matter? You should be approaching the station at a speed where you can stop, regardless of if the line speed is 50mph or 125mph.

Also, just because the station is a request stop doesn't mean every train should be booked to call on request. Take the Barnstaple line for example, where some trains stop at some stations by request.

It matters in terms of how much time would be lost by the train having to stop. In the context of making stations where no call is timetabled at the moment into request stops that could have a big impact on speed/timings and line capacity.

 

[gary47]

They do it in North Wales at Conwy and Llanfair not putting whole word in