Should electric power be forced upon motorcyclists?

[Bald Rick]

Short of an outright ban on selling petrol / diesel (which I think is very unlikely), there will still be places selling fuel, in the same way that you can still buy coal for your traction engine or hay for your horse. It’s just there will be many fewer places selling it.

 

[172007]

The issue with 2 wheel powered ICE vehicles is very simple. The noise. Noise polution is probably the greatest polition suffered by people, yes the more topical pollutions such as exhaust are an issue but quality of life from peace and quiet affects the vast majority of the population; vibration from sound may well affect the deaf also. The average motorbike can be heard from multiples of times further than a car and has a very reall impact on our lives. Ban them on noise alone, pollution of the direct areas of the bike is secondary and just as justifiable as cars.

 

[dakta]

in the same way that you can still buy coal for your traction engine

For now heck even my local 7 1/4" gauge model railway club is worried!

Changes will be extremely long term, and I think for a lot of it you'd be right and overnight you won't see the creep as such

 

[Bikeman78]

In a local cafe frequented by motorcylists there is a poster saying "loud pipes save lives". This is maybe overdoing it a bit, but it's true to an extent; hearing a vehicle coming does alert you to its presence, and being able to move silently around places shared by pedestrians like car parks and country lanes does pose a risk. So unfortunately/fortunately (depending on context) I think synthetic sounds will be the way.

As an alternative a manually triggered, friendly, non-aggressive "I'm there sound" like a bicycle bell or Metrolink tram "toot" would be a useful addition.

It's a fair point. Recently I saw an electric VW Golf pull away from the kerb silently and without any warning.

 

[millemille]

. A 2019 Ducati 1299 Panigale. 1285 cc of ultra modern V Twin, 2 massive pistons somehow cajoled into spinning to rpms even small 4 cylinder engines couldn't just a few years ago. 205 bhp as standard and 221 bhp the way mine is set up and just 165 kgs dry weight or 185-ish kgs ready to ride. 'No-frame' design also an amazing achievement.
1.2 bhp per kg my bike has, an astonishing PTW ratio coupled with a soundtrack to die for and a powerband / excitement NO 1 speed silent electric bike will EVER match. EVER!

Are you racing at national level?

Unless you are then all those numbers you are chucking about are simply willy waving as you never, ever actually use that power because you never, ever have WOT at the rpm needed to produce the power.

I say that as an ex national circuit and road racer who's current road ride, built by myself, is this...

162bhp/92lbft at the wheel, 200kg fully fuelled.

Have you ridden an electric bike? I have and they're awesome and the likelihood is the next new bike I buy will be electric.

To go with my electric bicycle...

...and the electric van I have just ordered.

 

[172007]

In a local cafe frequented by motorcylists there is a poster saying "loud pipes save lives". This is maybe overdoing it a bit, but it's true to an extent; hearing a vehicle coming does alert you to its presence, and being able to move silently around places shared by pedestrians like car parks and country lanes does pose a risk. So unfortunately/fortunately (depending on context) I think synthetic sounds will be the way.

As an alternative a manually triggered, friendly, non-aggressive "I'm there sound" like a bicycle bell or Metrolink tram "toot" would be a useful addition.

The "Loud pipes saves lives" looks like a copy n paste from the National Rifle Association of the US. More guns means we are safer as if everyone had one no one would dare to use one.

 

[chorleyjeff]

It's a fair point. Recently I saw an electric VW Golf pull away from the kerb silently and without any warning.

Got nudged by an Atlantean or similar when first introduced because there was not the usual noise from the front of the bus. Soon got used to them. Will be the same for electric cars and bikes.

 

[gg1]

Got nudged by an Atlantean or similar when first introduced because there was not the usual noise from the front of the bus. Soon got used to them. Will be the same for electric cars and bikes.

Not remotely comparable, unless you're seriously suggesting a 1960s double decker bus is as quiet as a 2020s electric car.

It's a non-issue anyway, as mentioned in an early post there will be no more completely silent EVs sold due to legislation requiring them to emit an audible warning at low speed.

 

[chorleyjeff]

Not remotely comparable, unless you're seriously suggesting a 1960s double decker bus is as quiet as a 2020s electric car.

It's a non-issue anyway, as mentioned in an early post there will be no more completely silent EVs sold due to legislation requiring them to emit an audible warning at low speed.

Of course not. But in a fairly noisy slow speed envireonment and being a careless overconfident kid I just assumed there was nothing coming and stepped into the front corner of the slow moving bus.
Yesterday I stood by an electric car that accelerated from a stop with just a faint whining sound. But of course we are now aware of nearly silent cars.
Believe it or not as you wish.

 

[DerekC]

I vote for electric motor cycles. I am sure the high powered versions will be just as good for willy-waving at the local cafe and you can still wear all the gear just as you always have. But the procession of (literally) hundreds of bikes that variously chug, roar and howl their way up our valley every fine weekend will be quiet! Can't wait!!

 

[Hadleywood]

Are you racing at national level?

Unless you are then all those numbers you are chucking about are simply willy waving as you never, ever actually use that power because you never, ever have WOT at the rpm needed to produce the power.

I say that as an ex national circuit and road racer who's current road ride, built by myself, is this...

162bhp/92lbft at the wheel, 200kg fully fuelled.

Have you ridden an electric bike? I have and they're awesome and the likelihood is the next new bike I buy will be electric.

To go with my electric bicycle...

...and the electric van I have just ordered.

The bike you have shown above is pretty good and at least you understand the attraction of a Ducati V Twin petrol engine if nothing else.

But it could easily be said to be willy waving as even 100 bhp is more than enough to get around on the roads, so you have way too much by your logic.

FOR the record, you are wrong anyway. I regularly use the acceleration on the road to a certain point and i do many track days with the bike and have posted some pretty decent lap times for a 54 year old. I have raced at every circuit in the country including Three Sisters and Knockhill by the way.
162 bhp and 200kgs fully fuelled. You need to try 220 bhp and a lot less fully fuelled. The performance is mind blowing. But it's also the sound, the brakes, the steering, the character. Your bike is more the sort of thing you'd go on holiday on, no comparison, sorry.
Don't assume so much. I built a 140 kgs ready to ride weight, TZ750-based road bike 20 years ago, with what used to be called a daytime MOT. A 2 stroke 4 cylinder tuned by Stan Stephens and with around 175 bhp. Absolute dynamite and yes, i had plenty of fun on the road and track.
Electric silent one speed bike to match those 2 bikes? BEHAVE!

 

[py_megapixel]

The bike you have shown above is pretty good and at least you understand the attraction of a Ducati V Twin petrol engine if nothing else.

But it could easily be said to be willy waving as even 100 bhp is more than enough to get around on the roads, so you have way too much by your logic.

FOR the record, you are wrong anyway. I regularly use the acceleration on the road to a certain point and i do many track days with the bike and have posted some pretty decent lap times for a 54 year old. I have raced at every circuit in the country including Three Sisters and Knockhill by the way.
162 bhp and 200kgs fully fuelled. You need to try 220 bhp and a lot less fully fuelled. The performance is mind blowing. But it's also the sound, the brakes, the steering, the character. Your bike is more the sort of thing you'd go on holiday on, no comparison, sorry.
Don't assume so much. I built a 140 kgs ready to ride weight, TZ750-based road bike 20 years ago, with what used to be called a daytime MOT. A 2 stroke 4 cylinder tuned by Stan Stephens and with around 175 bhp. Absolute dynamite and yes, i had plenty of fun on the road and track.
Electric silent one speed bike to match those 2 bikes? BEHAVE!

Can you please stop coming onto these threads just to belittle anything anyone else says? We are more than happy to have a constructive discussion, but your determination to continue perpetrating a childish, sneery attitude is helping nobody, and becoming not only obstructive but also rather tiring and predictable.

Besides, claiming that someone else's motorcycle is "no comparison" to yours is nonsensical, because maybe they do not have the same personal preferences or needs as yourself. Why does it matter?

 

[Darandio]

But it could easily be said to be willy waving as even 100 bhp is more than enough to get around on the roads, so you have way too much by your logic.

Personally i'm happy to see them willy waving. It's a damn sight better than acting like a complete cock. 54 years old? On your bike.

 

[DerekC]

When I were a lad (long time ago) almost all motor bikes were a form of low cost transport. A bike going along a road was taking someone to work or to see a relative or (with pillion and sidecar) the family out for the day. Journey entirely necessary and no problem. The situation now is entirely different. People mostly have bikes for fun. Nothing wrong with that in principle, but a substantial proportion have fun (as you can see by the comments on this thread) by riding very high powered, very noisy machines up and down certain roads that are known for their characteristics - mainly rural, good stretches of straight with gentle curves between speed limited areas, even better if in beautiful countryside. If it was only a few trips up and down a day I don't suppose much would be said - but it isn't. It's literally hundreds on almost any sunny day. I know the noise is part of the fun - but if you live near the road it really is quite devastating.

On a local forum the bike fraternity tend to dish out helpful comments like "if you don't like it you shouldn't live there" and "you deserve it, you are all rich b*stards anyway". It would be interesting to know what the committed bikers on this thread think. If there is a quieter, less environmentally damaging alternative that is not quite so much fun but still pretty good, why shouldn't you adopt it? I doubt that anyone is going to make you scrap your superbikes, but new ones may be banned and fuel for them will get increasingly expensive. We are all going to have to give up some things to help reduce climate change - why shouldn't you?

 

[AM9]

When I were a lad (long time ago) almost all motor bikes were a form of low cost transport. A bike going along a road was taking someone to work or to see a relative or (with pillion and sidecar) the family out for the day. Journey entirely necessary and no problem. The situation now is entirely different. People mostly have bikes for fun. Nothing wrong with that in principle, but a substantial proportion have fun (as you can see by the comments on this thread) by riding very high powered, very noisy machines up and down certain roads that are known for their characteristics - mainly rural, good stretches of straight with gentle curves between speed limited areas, even better if in beautiful countryside. If it was only a few trips up and down a day I don't suppose much would be said - but it isn't. It's literally hundreds on almost any sunny day. I know the noise is part of the fun - but if you live near the road it really is quite devastating.

On a local forum the bike fraternity tend to dish out helpful comments like "if you don't like it you shouldn't live there" and "you deserve it, you are all rich b*stards anyway". It would be interesting to know what the committed bikers on this thread think. If there is a quieter, less environmentally damaging alternative that is not quite so much fun but still pretty good, why shouldn't you adopt it? I doubt that anyone is going to make you scrap your superbikes, but new ones may be banned and fuel for them will get increasingly expensive. We are all going to have to give up some things to help reduce climate change - why shouldn't you?

There's no doubt that @Hadleywood will have to give up the antisocial motoring activities when most of the road traffic becomes a) cleaner and b) a lot quieter in few years. Those that as a matter of twisted principle refuse to change will be taxed, restricted and eventually prosecuted for their unacceptable behaviour on the public highway, - especially near residential areas. Professional riders of high performance machines (bike or car) do not regard public roads as suitable for showing off - they are welcomed at race tracks dedicated to their needs. So maybe we're reading words from a wannabe who reads too many magazines and websites.