Should electric power be forced upon motorcyclists?

[Hadleywood]

There's a poll in this week's MCN. A large number of motorcyclists (1,000+) voted on whether they'd change from petrol power to electric by choice, rather than being dictated to, (some say North Korean style). Well, the electric fans here will be shocked, pardon the pun, but 86%, yes 86% of people said they'd rather stay with the ICE way of doing things.

As I predicted, well actually i said 90%, but not far out. WHO can blame them, there never ever will be, for example, an electric motorcycle to get within a light year of my main bike for fun and pleasure. A 2019 Ducati 1299 Panigale. 1285 cc of ultra modern V Twin, 2 massive pistons somehow cajoled into spinning to rpms even small 4 cylinder engines couldn't just a few years ago. 205 bhp as standard and 221 bhp the way mine is set up and just 165 kgs dry weight or 185-ish kgs ready to ride. 'No-frame' design also an amazing achievement.
1.2 bhp per kg my bike has, an astonishing PTW ratio coupled with a soundtrack to die for and a powerband / excitement NO 1 speed silent electric bike will EVER match. EVER!

The MCN readers are right, sports bikes, fun bikes, need to be petrol. Yeah maybe boring city mopeds for chores are fine with electric, i'll give you that. GP race bikes are even more amazing, circa 300 bhp from 1 litre and 17,000 rpm, incredible feat of technology. Long live fun motoring/motorcycling and let the bores drive the leccy zzzzzzzzz-mobiles!

 

[ashkeba]

There's a poll in this week's MCN. A large number of motorcyclists (1,000+) voted on whether they'd change from petrol power to electric by choice, rather than being dictated to, (some say North Korean style). Well, the electric fans here will be shocked, pardon the pun, but 86%, yes 86% of people said they'd rather stay with the ICE way of doing things. AS i predicted, well actually i said 90%, but not far out. WHO can blame them, there never ever will be, for example, an electric motorcycle to get within a light year of my main bike for fun and pleasure.

It is not surprising if enthusiasts for dirty bikes want to stay with dirty bikes, especially when electic bikes are not yet common or cheap enough that many will have tried many.

This reminds me of itv's The Motorbike Show this year. Its presenter Henry something said he dislikes electric bikes but when he toured the Lake District on an electric Harley he was impressed, plus it was the first bike in 10 years of shows (he said) that had admirers going up when it was parked and willing to talk on camera. It was the 2 Sep show, available on itvplayer until 7 December.

Electric motorbikes will improve and many dirty bike riders will switch, especially those interested in riding more than engines run on mini explosions. They need promoting more than electric cars because they hog less space and use fewer resxources.

 

[AM9]

There's a poll in this week's MCN. A large number of motorcyclists (1,000+) voted on whether they'd change from petrol power to electric by choice, rather than being dictated to, (some say North Korean style). Well, the electric fans here will be shocked, pardon the pun, but 86%, yes 86% of people said they'd rather stay with the ICE way of doing things. AS i predicted, well actually i said 90%, but not far out. WHO can blame them, there never ever will be, for example, an electric motorcycle to get within a light year of my main bike for fun and pleasure. A 2019 Ducati 1299 Panigale. 1285 cc of ultra modern V Twin, 2 massive pistons somehow cajoled into spinning to rpms even small 4 cylinder engines couldn't just a few years ago. 205 bhp as standard and 221 bhp the way mine is set up and just 165 kgs dry weight or 185-ish kgs ready to ride. 'No-frame' design also an amazing achievement.
1.2 bhp per kg my bike has, an astonishing PTW ratio coupled with a soundtrack to die for and a powerband / excitement NO 1 speed silent electric bike will EVER match. EVER! The MCN readers are right, sports bikes, fun bikes, need to be petrol. Yeah maybe boring city mopeds for chores are fine with electric, i'll give you that. GP race bikes are even more amazing, circa 300 bhp from 1 litre and 17,000 rpm, incredible feat of technology. Long live fun motoring/motorcycling and let the bores drive the leccy zzzzzzzzz-mobiles!

Well, more totally unsurprising data, - not at all skewed by the fact that it is based on the opinions of a performance obsessed magazine readership.
If you want to make a point, you really need to use information that is representative of the population, not some special interest group that by their behaviour in terms of noise and excess energe wastage, has absolutely no consideration for the environment, (either climatic or social). All you have done is amplify the noise inside this bubble that some inconsiderate road users live.

 

[reddragon]

There's a poll in this week's MCN. A large number of motorcyclists (1,000+) voted on whether they'd change from petrol power to electric by choice, rather than being dictated to, (some say North Korean style). Well, the electric fans here will be shocked, pardon the pun, but 86%, yes 86% of people said they'd rather stay with the ICE way of doing things. AS i predicted, well actually i said 90%, but not far out. WHO can blame them, there never ever will be, for example, an electric motorcycle to get within a light year of my main bike for fun and pleasure. A 2019 Ducati 1299 Panigale. 1285 cc of ultra modern V Twin, 2 massive pistons somehow cajoled into spinning to rpms even small 4 cylinder engines couldn't just a few years ago. 205 bhp as standard and 221 bhp the way mine is set up and just 165 kgs dry weight or 185-ish kgs ready to ride. 'No-frame' design also an amazing achievement.1.2 bhp per kg my bike has, an astonishing PTW ratio coupled with a soundtrack to die for and a powerband / excitement NO 1 speed silent electric bike will EVER match. EVER! The MCN readers are right, sports bikes, fun bikes, need to be petrol. Yeah maybe boring city mopeds for chores are fine with electric, i'll give you that. GP race bikes are even more amazing, circa 300 bhp from 1 litre and 17,000 rpm, incredible feat of technology. Long live fun motoring/motorcycling and let the bores drive the leccy zzzzzzzzz-mobiles!

There is always a resistance to change from certain groups in society, especially those of reminisce over the past of which rail enthusiasts are well known for!

Have you had a ride on one of these? Lightning motorcycles are currently up there on the fastest bikes. And before you note the higher weight & similar horsepower, on an electric that's from 0 revs whereas those you mention its at high revs so is limited to a narrow rev band. The torque is also much higher on electric. I suggest that you try one.

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If weight really is an issue there are now hybrid electric motorbikes. These have a small battery plus an ultracapacitor and equal the power / weight of what you like

This electric bike uses ULTRACAPACITORS

NAWA Racer Concept uses a hybrid battery that claims better efficiency and more range

www.topgear.com

86% of MCN readers no only do not represent most motorcyclists but are basing their answer on what they have seen not what is available.

 

[stuu]

So being told that no new ICE vehicles will be allowed is the same as living in North Korea? Where people have to eat grass to survive? You think that is a sensible argument?

As for the rest of it, risible at best. It sounds like a toddler having a tantrum, and that's as polite as I'm prepared to be

 

[Darandio]

I drive trains. I drive a muscle car. I ride an Italian superbike. I moderate performance car forums. I'm really a child.

Honestly, that's how each of your posts reads. Childish fantasy with a large smattering of factless wibble.

 

[py_megapixel]

WHO can blame them, there never ever will be, for example, an electric motorcycle to get within a light year of my main bike for fun and pleasure. A 2019 Ducati 1299 Panigale. 1285 cc of ultra modern V Twin, 2 massive pistons somehow cajoled into spinning to rpms even small 4 cylinder engines couldn't just a few years ago. 205 bhp as standard and 221 bhp the way mine is set up and just 165 kgs dry weight or 185-ish kgs ready to ride. 'No-frame' design also an amazing achievement.
1.2 bhp per kg my bike has, an astonishing PTW ratio coupled with a soundtrack to die for and a powerband / excitement NO 1 speed silent electric bike will EVER match. EVER! The MCN readers are right, sports bikes, fun bikes, need to be petrol. Yeah maybe boring city mopeds for chores are fine with electric, i'll give you that. GP race bikes are even more amazing, circa 300 bhp from 1 litre and 17,000 rpm, incredible feat of technology. Long live fun motoring/motorcycling and let the bores drive the leccy zzzzzzzzz-mobiles!

As somebody who walks frequently next to busy roads, I cannot wait for a greater proportion of motorcycles to be electric (or as you, and I'm sure several 7-year-olds, describe them, "zzzzzzzz-mobiles"). The infernal droning that emanates from motorcycle engines (and from sports cars) is the bane of my existence. They sound like one of those 7-year-olds doing a particular poor imitation of flatulence, amplified to the point of distortion.

(And before someone calls me out on perceived hypocrisy, I think the same about noisy diesel trains. All noisy diesel trains. Including those hauled by locomotives. In fact, especially those.)

 

[AM9]

I drive trains. I drive a muscle car. I ride an Italian superbike. I moderate performance car forums. I'm really a child.

Honestly, that's how each of your posts reads. Childish fantasy with a large smattering of factless wibble.

Which post are these words of yours in response to?

 

[EssexGonzo]

MCN absolutely does NOT represent even a significant minority of motorcyclists. I speak as a motorcyclist of 25+ years.

There is not yet a viable electric bike on the market, nor is there an adequate public charging infrastructure in the UK. When these two are fixed, EBs will become more popular. Same with cars.

If MCN ran a poll on whether loud exhausts should be banned, no doubt 86% would say absolutely not, it’s a basic human right, please don’t ask me to stop dragging my knuckles on the ground.

And I agree ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ All non-standard, loud exhausts should be banned. Motorcyclists, and some middle-aged SUV drivers, think loud exhausts make them cool. They do not. they make them anti-social knobs.

 

[Darandio]

I drive trains. I drive a muscle car. I ride an Italian superbike. I moderate performance car forums. I'm really a child.

Honestly, that's how each of your posts reads. Childish fantasy with a large smattering of factless wibble.

The OP.

 

[py_megapixel]

As for the rest of it, risible at best. It sounds like a toddler having a tantrum, and that's as polite as I'm prepared to be

The difference is that if you told a typical toddler you were taking their toy away because it was disturbing everyone nearby and producing dangerous chemicals, they probably wouldn't keep labouring the point day after day after day.

The thing is, nobody is taking anyone's ICE cars away, so I don't really see what problem @Hadleywood has - they are free to continue driving theirs! Unless they take issue with other people driving electric cars, or with petrol prices going up because of natural market forces?

 

[AM9]

The OP.

OK, that's a relief.

 

[Bletchleyite]

People riding motorcycles as a hobby are probably a fair way down the "need to solve that" list, because they aren't ridden every day and are less polluting than cars anyway, partly because they're all petrol and partly as the engines are smaller and the energy required lower.

For day to day transport, electric motorcycles and scooters (as in Vespa type scooters, not e-scooters, though I also support those they aren't really relevant to this discussion) provide an excellent "clean at the point of use" and low-energy method of travelling in cities where public transport isn't a viable option, and should be encouraged over petrol ones (and generally).

As ever in my view the answer to the power problem posed by potentially higher* electricity demand for the time being is another 3 or so nuclear power stations. I do agree we should be generating to a potential surplus domestically but nuclear is to me the way to do that in the medium term.

* Is it that much higher? Electronics use tiny amounts, CRT TVs are no longer a thing, home lighting is now mostly LED (so my whole house's lighting circuit runs on about 0.5A) and unlike years ago most houses don't have a 3 bar electric fire in the lounge because it's near enough all gas.

 

[Roast Veg]

There's a poll in this week's MCN. A large number of motorcyclists (1,000+) voted on whether they'd change from petrol power to electric by choice, rather than being dictated to, (some say North Korean style).

A large data set does not an unbiased opinion poll make. The bias is evident in your parenthesis - you value personal freedom and liberty so highly that you are prepared to actively impinge on the basic comfort and quality of life of those around you just to maintain a lifestyle that you have grown fond of. All forms of pollution do harm: carbon emissions are causing climate change, nitrogen emissions are causing respiratory illness in our cities, noise pollution causes misery for those who cannot avoid it, and space pollution in densely populated areas is hurting growth in our economy. Admittedly motorbikes are pretty good in the last regard!

Well, the electric fans here will be shocked, pardon the pun, but 86%, yes 86% of people said they'd rather stay with the ICE way of doing things.

I'm totally unsurprised! If I asked a group with an equally opposing bias, I should hope you wouldn't be surprised by one-sided statistics either.

As I predicted, well actually i said 90%, but not far out. WHO can blame them, there never ever will be, for example, an electric motorcycle to get within a light year of my main bike for fun and pleasure.

Why not? Electric supercars seem to be doing a pretty good job already, all it would take is some clever engineering. Speaking of...

A 2019 Ducati 1299 Panigale. 1285 cc of ultra modern V Twin, 2 massive pistons somehow cajoled into spinning to rpms even small 4 cylinder engines couldn't just a few years ago. 205 bhp as standard and 221 bhp the way mine is set up and just 165 kgs dry weight or 185-ish kgs ready to ride. 'No-frame' design also an amazing achievement.
1.2 bhp per kg my bike has, an astonishing PTW ratio coupled with a soundtrack to die for and a powerband / excitement NO 1 speed silent electric bike will EVER match. EVER!

It is possible to be passionate about the engineering of electric vehicles. I could go on about the performance characteristics and clever design features of electric vehicles (in the very widest definition of the word). Replace "bhp" with "kW" and start comparing torque figures and you're halfway there. We still care about weight - very much so!

The MCN readers are right, sports bikes, fun bikes, need to be petrol.

This is far from fact. "In 2021, ICE is the most cost-effective method of producing fast motorbikes" would be a fact. What will 2022 bring? Let's look forward to change!

Yeah maybe boring city mopeds for chores are fine with electric, i'll give you that. GP race bikes are even more amazing, circa 300 bhp from 1 litre and 17,000 rpm, incredible feat of technology.

You're correct - the best market for electric two-wheelers today is dense urban areas, and the market share of the two-stroke hairdryers with L-plates will hopefully be a thing of the past before too long. I suggest you take a look at Formula E for an example of what an eMotoGP might look like. As mentioned, engineering is very much focused on the delivery of electric energy storage and propulsion today.

Long live fun motoring/motorcycling and let the bores drive the leccy zzzzzzzzz-mobiles!

The two are not mutually excusive. You have ridden an electrically powered rollercoaster, right?

 

[seagull]

As another who is a frequent user of quiet rural lanes for walking, and a fan of the "quiet countryside" - I certainly hope that electric bikes become more popular. In some parts of the country, the weekend motorbike noise is absolutely ruinous to any idea of tranquillity - and as for living by a main road as I did for many years, the type of vehicle that made more noise and disturbance than anything else did.

I know noise pollution is not the principal force behind electric adoption of course but it will be a very nice benefit. Unless of course manufacturers think it's clever to stick a loudspeaker on them with recorded noise to make up for the absence of an engine...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I know noise pollution is not the principal force behind electric adoption of course but it will be a very nice benefit. Unless of course manufacturers think it's clever to stick a loudspeaker on them with recorded noise to make up for the absence of an engine...

In a local cafe frequented by motorcylists there is a poster saying "loud pipes save lives". This is maybe overdoing it a bit, but it's true to an extent; hearing a vehicle coming does alert you to its presence, and being able to move silently around places shared by pedestrians like car parks and country lanes does pose a risk. So unfortunately/fortunately (depending on context) I think synthetic sounds will be the way.

As an alternative a manually triggered, friendly, non-aggressive "I'm there sound" like a bicycle bell or Metrolink tram "toot" would be a useful addition.

 

[reddragon]

In a local cafe frequented by motorcylists there is a poster saying "loud pipes save lives". This is maybe overdoing it a bit, but it's true to an extent; hearing a vehicle coming does alert you to its presence, and being able to move silently around places shared by pedestrians like car parks and country lanes does pose a risk. So unfortunately/fortunately (depending on context) I think synthetic sounds will be the way.

As an alternative a manually triggered, friendly, non-aggressive "I'm there sound" like a bicycle bell or Metrolink tram "toot" would be a useful addition.

These are compulsory on electric vehicles now after an ancient law was amended

 

[Ediswan]

These are compulsory on electric vehicles now after an ancient law was amended

I found a new EU regulation as of July 2019 but no 'ancient law'. Can you provide a poiner to what you were referring to.

 

[75A]

Why should motorcyclists think they're any different from car drivers, we've had it forced on us against our will.

 

[reddragon]

I found a new EU regulation as of July 2019 but no 'ancient law'. Can you provide a poiner to what you were referring to.

There was legislation originating from steam road vehicles in the 19th century stating that no locomotive or engine shall sound it's horn or whistle between the hours of 11pm and 7 am. It unfortunately was still in place and applied to low speed EV sounds. That element was repelled a year ago.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Oct 2021 ==

Why should motorcyclists think they're any different from car drivers, we've had it forced on us against our will.

Maybe I'd like to drive through town at 100 mph after a few drinks. Was that banned against my will or for the greater good?

 

[Ediswan]

There was legislation originating from steam road vehicles in the 19th century stating that no locomotive or engine shall sound it's horn or whistle between the hours of 11pm and 7 am. It unfortunately was still in place and applied to low speed EV sounds. That element was repelled a year ago.

OK, but in the abscence of a reference to the specific legislation, I am tempted to file this under 'myths and legends'.

Such things definitely do happen. For many years LED cycle lights did not meet the legal requirement as that specified filament lamps, in order to prevent the continued use of carbide/acetylene lamps.

 

[py_megapixel]

Why should motorcyclists think they're any different from car drivers, we've had it forced on us against our will.

You've had nothing forced on you.

In a local cafe frequented by motorcylists there is a poster saying "loud pipes save lives". This is maybe overdoing it a bit, but it's true to an extent; hearing a vehicle coming does alert you to its presence, and being able to move silently around places shared by pedestrians like car parks and country lanes does pose a risk. So unfortunately/fortunately (depending on context) I think synthetic sounds will be the way.

It's fairly well-known that noise pollution is a major contributor to stress/anxiety, and there must be quite a few preventable deaths, or at least shortened life expectancies, caused by those.

 

[75A]

Yes we have, they've set a date when we can't buy new Petrol / Diesel cars whether we want to or not.

 

[Bald Rick]

There’s a poll in this week’s Turkey News, and of well over 1,000 turkeys surveyed, very few thought that Christmas was a good idea.

 

[reddragon]

OK, but in the abscence of a reference to the specific legislation, I am tempted to file this under 'myths and legends'.

Such things definitely do happen. For many years LED cycle lights did not meet the legal requirement as that specified filament lamps, in order to prevent the continued use of carbide/acetylene lamps.

Rule 112 of the Highway code says that you must not use your horn “when driving in a built-up area between the hours of 11.30pm and 7.00am.

I cannot find the specific legislation at the mo as I'm busy.

 

[py_megapixel]

Yes we have, they've set a date when we can't buy new Petrol / Diesel cars whether we want to or not.

That is over 8 years into the future, by which point battery technology will be far advanced and the used market will be more mature - so almost nobody will be being forced into something they don't want, and those who have a pressing reason not to drive an EV will still be able to drive their ICE cars for a while longer. Nobody is being forced into it now, and very few will feel as if they are being forced in the future either.

As a pedestrian with no choice but to walk next to congested roads, I am having petrol and diesel fumes and unhealthy amounts of noise pollution forced on me. Why do you think that is fair?

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's fairly well-known that noise pollution is a major contributor to stress/anxiety, and there must be quite a few preventable deaths, or at least shortened life expectancies, caused by those.

I think that depends on the nature of the noise. The key would be designing a sound that is pleasant to the ear as well as alerting you to the car's presence. For random instance, I find the sound of a Class 319 setting off *incredibly* relaxing - it's just a really nice note that sounds a bit like a violin playing. On the other hand the horrid whine inside a Class 158 gives me a headache.

I suspect totally silent cars would cause far more deaths and injuries, though, but automatic collision avoidance mitigate some of them.

 

[gswindale]

I'm a big fan of banning "loud" motorbikes.

They always seem to make as much noise as possible when passing my car - particularly when they're busy queue jumping in a traffic jam and also when the little one is trying to sleep in the car - frequently makes him jump.

As far as I am concerned, the owners of such bikes are inconsiderate of other road users and anything that can be done to rid the roads of their menaces is welcome.

If you want one, fine, but find somewhere sensible to ride it where you're not causing others problems - you wouldn't find an F1 car driving down the A322 would you?

 

[Bald Rick]

If you want one, fine, but find somewhere sensible to ride it where you're not causing others problems - you wouldn't find an F1 car driving down the A322 would you?

Definitely not, it would be on the A320

 

[dakta]

It doesn't really surprise me, as stated further above it's a special interest group and it's one hell of a change.

That said, neodymium magnet motor on a light 2 wheel frame, if you're not bothered about going far and don't mind some decent gauge cable....it's going to be an epic 'not far journey' indeed.

Joking aside, whilst I wouldn't specifically target motorcyclists in the fuel type sense, I doubt petrol stations would stay open solely for them so there could be some interesting changes in the long term.