Shortage of drivers on GWR

[Horizon22]

The evidence was the (since debunked) claim that 75% of drivers at one depot were isolating either due to having the virus or having been in prolonged close contact with someone who went on to test positive for it (from symptoms that developed) in the following 48 hours, as there is simply no other reasonable explanation that could explain such a high incidence of cases given the typical level of workplace interaction between drivers and the wider local infection rate.

No the issue was 25% productive establishement - this can be due to sickness, self-isolation but also there are Covid related reasons such as a backlog of drivers awaiting training. This is true for all TOCs. There can also be outbreaks in specific areas evn where wider infection late is low; many factories and universities have had this problem so its totally reasonable. Although you could ask a question as to whether social distancing measures are adequate in mess rooms and/or being adhered to - but still I doubt it - its highly cynical to suggest these issues aren't ultimately related to Covid at exactly the same time a timetable increase was mandated.

 

[21C101]

What is needed is what First did when they ran Thameslink and GTR sadly didn't continue.

Have a disruption timetable with basic service pre published (with info on alternative bus and rail routes) and roll straight onto it when something like this happens.

 

[Horizon22]

What is needed is what First did when they ran Thameslink and GTR sadly didn't continue.

Have a disruption timetable with basic service pre published (with info on alternative bus and rail routes) and roll straight onto it when something like this happens.

It has been somewhat - the semi-fast services to the West of England have been cancelled and crew allocated elsewhere. Additional stops have been placed on the WoE services that are running. Plus these semi-fast services haven't been running for 6 months anyway.

 

[221129]

In Plymouth are XC affected,do they have a similar Covid outbreak?

Not that I'm aware of and if there is, then it's been kept very quiet and not effecting the service.

 

[irish_rail]

Sundays are outside the working week at GWR so a gathering on a Sunday could in theory easily be attended by the majority of those at a depot (and I imagine 50-60% would be sufficient to cause a 75% absence rate if they then went into work on the Monday). It is simply unbelievable that spread within the workplace could wipe out such a high proportion of drivers from one depot without taking out more than a small proportion of drivers from other depots that they interact with on a daily basis or those in other roles (guards, customer hosts) at the same depot, or that it would have taken 9 months for such a major issue to have any effect on the spread of the virus.
As I said now it is clear that the true numbers of isolating are much lower the possibility of an organised meet up being the cause is much more unlikely and almost certainly wasn't the cause, but I don't think there's anything wrong with acknowledging that there have been similar incidents in other professions that have had the same effect so it clearly isn't impossible.

You need to drop this mass gathering rubbish. The vast majority of affected drivers at plymouth were working the night shift together using the small messroom at laira. That led to the initial outbreak and others have followed by inadvertently making contact with those infected before it was realised they were infected.
This conspiracy theory that drivers are all out to avoid christmas is ridiculous. Have a little sympathy, there are guys with covid who have health conditions and partners now affected with health issues so spare us this nonsense please.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

You need to drop this mass gathering rubbish. The vast majority of affected drivers at plymouth were working the night shift together using the small messroom at laira. That led to the initial outbreak and others have followed by inadvertently making contact with those infected before it was realised they were infected.
This conspiracy theory that drivers are all out to avoid christmas is ridiculous. Have a little sympathy, there are guys with covid who have health conditions and partners now affected with health issues so spare us this nonsense please.

Well said, whilst we might not have always agreed about service provision I couldn’t agree more with you here - the railway has throughout the pandemic really pulled together to do it’s best to keep things going and this is a very sad outcome having so many people unwell in the run up to Christmas.

 

[infobleep]

Because you can’t deliver clear unmuffled safety critical communications through a face mask over the telephone and radio systems.

Personally when I've been on the phone to people, whilst wearing a mask, there hasn't been any problems with the other person hearing me.

If they couldn't hear me it would be for other reasons like poor mobile data reception.

What caused the shortage of staff on the Tracing to Redhill route this morning? Services cancelled. No mention of Reading to Gatwick Airport services though. No mention of the route to Gatwick Airport at all even.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

You need to drop this mass gathering rubbish. The vast majority of affected drivers at plymouth were working the night shift together using the small messroom at laira. That led to the initial outbreak and others have followed by inadvertently making contact with those infected before it was realised they were infected.
This conspiracy theory that drivers are all out to avoid christmas is ridiculous. Have a little sympathy, there are guys with covid who have health conditions and partners now affected with health issues so spare us this nonsense please.

Hear hear. I hope everyone recovers and returns to health as soon as possible.

 

[175001]

Looe branch suspended until 2100 due to lack of train crew.

 

[Bungle158]

Penzance being badly affected seems odd, seeing as it is virtually the only part of England still in Tier 1?

Perhaps because crews travel outside of Tier 1 Cornwall in the course of their duties.

 

[FordFocus]

You need to drop this mass gathering rubbish. The vast majority of affected drivers at plymouth were working the night shift together using the small messroom at laira. That led to the initial outbreak and others have followed by inadvertently making contact with those infected before it was realised they were infected.
This conspiracy theory that drivers are all out to avoid christmas is ridiculous. Have a little sympathy, there are guys with covid who have health conditions and partners now affected with health issues so spare us this nonsense please.

This ^

FWIW I've following this thread loosely. A few points and views..

Track and Trace has now finally improved including the NHS Covid application "working". This is leading to more positive cases or people been told to isolate. Drivers have been told to isolate though the app or text because they've been sat in a room with someone who later tested positive.

Some mess rooms across the country have many drivers and other traincrew rammed into them as there is a lack of alternative facilities. Social Distancing much like a supermarket is near impossible.

There's more mass testing, including TOC led testing at driver level for the purposes of training bubbles. Some of these drivers are testing positive without symptoms. These bubbles have been approved by the industry and ASLEF after a few months of discussions and trials.

Then there is the seasonal shortage of staff, annual leave is maxed out as people want Christmas off booked nearly 15 months in advance. Covid has caused complications with this as some TOCs will not permit leave to be carried over to next year, so use it or lose it.. Thus most drivers have moved their leave from the summer (pointless taking a holiday) to the winter in the hope of a late getaway to the Canaries etc.

RDW is haphazard depending on who's isolating. My TOC is suffering with cancellations because of Covid due to the drivers that love overtime and cover the open turns having to isolate. There is little appetite for RDW at some depots.

I find it laughable that the line been posted by some in this thread is that it's deliberate act to get Christmas off and it's all the unions fault. It's the same right wing nonsense that gets trotted out each time there are staffing issues. Global pandemic, cases rising, more testing available, a 10 day isolation period and school children coming home from infected schools. It's not rocket science and it's not like they're a dozen drivers stood in a pub together with Christmas hats on with this Tier system in place??

 

[RPI]

Only skimmed this thread but certainly at Exeter St Davids there are currently two messrooms, one is for visiting crews and one for Exeter based crews

 

[175001]

Well said FordFocus. Seems to be bitterness about it all, especially from an MP regarding the very system his government built.

 

[Bow Fell]

I always enjoy reading the conspiracy theories on here from the usual suspects, same old nonsense over and over again. I assume they are the same people that believe the COVID conspiracies too!

In my place of work in a Control centre while to be non-customer facing, COVID-symptoms, pretty much decimated our place of work between March and May, I practically lived in the place on 12 hours (of choice of course) to ensure the job was covered. And many traincrew have done the same to keep the wheels moving.

Don’t forget Covid, doesn’t discriminate, it won’t decide to not infect someone because there’s a risk the job might go uncovered, which some on here seem convinced at.

Even though messrooms etc are “Covid-Secure” we all still use the same kitchen, all use the same toilets, and no amount of hand-washing, sanitising and cleaning can stop the spread, realistically, in some cases. If it did, then I doubt Covid would still exist?!

We had cases recently in work, were staff were contacted by track and trace via the App or other means, it was argued by management that there should be no reason anyone should be contacted through track and trace through a work contact as everyone should be 2m (which I get their point) but you now by law are obliged to self-isolate, then you have to.

I imagine there is an issue with Annual Leave too, I cancelled a lot of my leave earlier in the year as it was pointless being off work and have now hardly been in work Oct/Nov and Dec as I had to use all my leave by the end of the year.

 

[sw1ller]

Hope all is good and test comes back ok.

Stay safe mate.

Had it back today. Came back positive unfortunately and I’m feeling the effects too. Not terrible but I’m not great either. Thanks for that though. Much appreciated.

 

[High Dyke]

Had it back today. Came back positive unfortunately and I’m feeling the effects too. Not terrible but I’m not great either. Thanks for that though. Much appreciated.

Sorry to hear that. Best wishes for a speedy recovery.

As an aside to the main thread topic. Signalling staff have also been affected. One major location in my area recently had more than half of the staff off - affected directly or indirectly. To keep trains running relied on management and competent signallers from other locations to assist. And then you get some uninformed comment slating the staff who have been on the frontline of this.

 

[theironroad]

Had it back today. Came back positive unfortunately and I’m feeling the effects too. Not terrible but I’m not great either. Thanks for that though. Much appreciated.

Hey, really sorry to hear that. Take care of yourself and you'll be back at work before you know it

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Dec 2020 ==

You need to drop this mass gathering rubbish. The vast majority of affected drivers at plymouth were working the night shift together using the small messroom at laira. That led to the initial outbreak and others have followed by inadvertently making contact with those infected before it was realised they were infected.
This conspiracy theory that drivers are all out to avoid christmas is ridiculous. Have a little sympathy, there are guys with covid who have health conditions and partners now affected with health issues so spare us this nonsense please.

+1

Hope everyone recovers quickly. Stay safe.


For SWR passengers:


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Dec 2020 ==

Just to clarify, the current advice from SWR (on journey check) for those travelling to/from stations on the west of England line , these services will now start/terminate at Basingstoke until 24/12.

Wherever possible these are starting/terminating on the island platforms at Basingstoke ( PL 2/3 ) which allows for easy connections to other services.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Had it back today. Came back positive unfortunately and I’m feeling the effects too. Not terrible but I’m not great either. Thanks for that though. Much appreciated.

Best of luck for a speedy recovery buddy.

 

[father_jack]

Paddington to Cheltenham wiped out later today (Saturday). Long way from Plymouth.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Paddington to Cheltenham wiped out later today (Saturday). Long way from Plymouth.

It’s not just Plymouth which has issues with drivers isolating sadly

 

[sw1ller]

Sorry to hear that. Best wishes for a speedy recovery.

As an aside to the main thread topic. Signalling staff have also been affected. One major location in my area recently had more than half of the staff off - affected directly or indirectly. To keep trains running relied on management and competent signallers from other locations to assist. And then you get some uninformed comment slating the staff who have been on the frontline of this.

Hey, really sorry to hear that. Take care of yourself and you'll be back at work before you know it

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Dec 2020 ==



+1

Hope everyone recovers quickly. Stay safe.


For SWR passengers:


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Dec 2020 ==

Just to clarify, the current advice from SWR (on journey check) for those travelling to/from stations on the west of England line , these services will now start/terminate at Basingstoke until 24/12.

Wherever possible these are starting/terminating on the island platforms at Basingstoke ( PL 2/3 ) which allows for easy connections to other services.

Best of luck for a speedy recovery buddy.

Thank you very much. My sleep is all out of sync, hence the near 2am reply! It really is disheartening listening to some of the complaints were all getting in all grades. Sure, we’ll mainly get support on this forum but on other social media platforms, it’s getting very old very fast. I’ll be ok anyway, stay safe everyone.

 

[infobleep]

I always enjoy reading the conspiracy theories on here from the usual suspects, same old nonsense over and over again. I assume they are the same people that believe the COVID conspiracies too!

In my place of work in a Control centre while to be non-customer facing, COVID-symptoms, pretty much decimated our place of work between March and May, I practically lived in the place on 12 hours (of choice of course) to ensure the job was covered. And many traincrew have done the same to keep the wheels moving.

Don’t forget Covid, doesn’t discriminate, it won’t decide to not infect someone because there’s a risk the job might go uncovered, which some on here seem convinced at.

Even though messrooms etc are “Covid-Secure” we all still use the same kitchen, all use the same toilets, and no amount of hand-washing, sanitising and cleaning can stop the spread, realistically, in some cases. If it did, then I doubt Covid would still exist?!

We had cases recently in work, were staff were contacted by track and trace via the App or other means, it was argued by management that there should be no reason anyone should be contacted through track and trace through a work contact as everyone should be 2m (which I get their point) but you now by law are obliged to self-isolate, then you have to.

I imagine there is an issue with Annual Leave too, I cancelled a lot of my leave earlier in the year as it was pointless being off work and have now hardly been in work Oct/Nov and Dec as I had to use all my leave by the end of the year.

Could they not be more flexible with annual leave and allow it to be carried over. I appreciate there might be issues next year but it might help a little. Anything is better than nothing.

I read more shortages on the North Downs Line today. Not sure which trains are canceled but they do acknowledge Gatwick Airport at least.

 

[Mintona]

Paddington to Cheltenham wiped out later today (Saturday). Long way from Plymouth.

If I was to hazard a guess, Bristol crew have been taken off Cheltenhams to work West of England trains instead. Some additional trains are running between Swindon and Gloucester with turbos, presumably using spare crew at Gloucester.

 

[221129]

If I was to hazard a guess, Bristol crew have been taken off Cheltenhams to work West of England trains instead. Some additional trains are running between Swindon and Gloucester with turbos, presumably using spare crew at Gloucester.

Bristol has the same issues as Plymouth by all accounts.

 

[Mintona]

Bristol has the same issues as Plymouth by all accounts.

I’m sure there are a few off but it certainly isn’t to the same extent.

 

[Horizon22]

Paddington to Cheltenham wiped out later today (Saturday). Long way from Plymouth.

As have the (recently reinstated) Cardiff services. Drivers have been shifted around to cover other services. It is easier (operationally) to cancel one line of route, arrange replacement road transport / shuttle rather than ad-hoc services cancelled.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Dec 2020 ==

If I was to hazard a guess, Bristol crew have been taken off Cheltenhams to work West of England trains instead. Some additional trains are running between Swindon and Gloucester with turbos, presumably using spare crew at Gloucester.

Its a shuttle, but its very ad-hoc supplemented with some road transport.

 

[Welshman]

Indeed, and there are some at my TOC too. Taxis are always going to be unavoidable, which means drivers (and in certain circumstances guards too) are always going to be at risk.

I realise it's not your TOC, but I notice that from the new TT, Avanti seem to have reverted to stabling 2 Voyagers overnight at Holyhead.
Have they then reverted to the practice of taxi-ing crew from Liverpool?

 

[PHILIPE]

Thank you very much. My sleep is all out of sync, hence the near 2am reply! It really is disheartening listening to some of the complaints were all getting in all grades. Sure, we’ll mainly get support on this forum but on other social media platforms, it’s getting very old very fast. I’ll be ok anyway, stay safe everyone.

Hoping you soon recover

 

[craigybagel]

I realise it's not your TOC, but I notice that from the new TT, Avanti seem to have reverted to stabling 2 Voyagers overnight at Holyhead.
Have they then reverted to the practice of taxi-ing crew from Liverpool?

Either that (or Manchester, both depots have drivers working to Holyhead) or it's being done as a night turn with a few hours break in Holyhead. I've not seen the timings to work out if that's possible. Avanti are always going to need taxis to some degree though, Polmadie is their only maintenance depot within walking distance of a traincrew depot.

 

[Dai Corner]

If a driver phones in to say he's got to self-isolate for ten days as a contact has tested positive but he's asymptomatic do GWR arrange for him to be tested so he can return if the result is negative?