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Short Journey Fraud - WMT - Time given to reply?

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Bromsgrove123

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14 Oct 2024
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Bromsgrove
Hi All,

New poster here looking for advice.

I received the following email yesterday from WMT and have been reading the forum with sheer fear since. I struggled to sleep last night and it’s been incredibly distracting and I really can’t believe I have been so stupid (over such a lengthy period of time).

When I was stopped by someone who scanned my ticket, they let me on my way, nothing was said about it not being valid etc. but I knew at the time I’d paid for a short journey and it wouldn’t be potentially the last I’d hear of it given the fact it was scrutinised in person.

It is clear from the email however that my digital footprint has been analysed and they have drawn a conclusion, away from the journey in question where my ticket was scanned.

I’ve carried out a review of my account activity and I can see I have done this c.20 times over a 2 year period. Saving on average £3.50 a time (vs an anytime single fare for the same route).

My first question is - Given the email does not state a time period for response, is there an implied time period to engage with the TOC? Or is it on a sooner rather than later basis?

I’ve seen plenty of advice on the forum around composition of a return for similar items, in fact many emails sent out seem to take this guise (short fare fraud). If possible, I’d like to seek the advice of the forum around a drafted reply (which I’ll draft ASAP).

I of course would like to avoid the most serious treatment outlined in the email at all costs if possible, and am prepared for a significant financial penalty to be imposed if I am lucky enough.

“We have recently been handed a file relating to an incident on XX XXXXXX XXXX when approached by staff carrying out their revenue duties, you were asked to show your valid ticket you offered a ticket that was not valid for the journey you had completed, possibly committing short journey fraud.

Further investigations into this matter have been carried out, including a review of the ticket records. It would appear, at this stage, that this may be a case of fraud. West Midlands Trains take travel fraud extremely seriously and is committed to prosecuting all cases of fare evasion to the full extent of the law. Travelling on the railway with the intent to avoid paying the full fare is an offence under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889. Such an offence carries a maximum fine of £1,000 and/or three months’ imprisonment and, in either case, a criminal record. It must also be considered whether this matter amounts to a much more serious offence under the Fraud Act 2006.

At this stage we would be grateful if you would provide any evidence to support the claim that none of the above legislation has been contravened to prevent further action being contemplated.

We look forward to hearing from you.”

Any help would be appreciated and any pointers around the time given to reply would be great.
 
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STKKK46

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340
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Anywhere but here...
Firstly, you will likely have been reported to prevent confrontation and to continue with ticket checks, and was likely done by a guard.
I’d suggest it’s relatively rare you get checked on that route, hence the fact you decided to take advantage and deliberately short fare.

Secondly, others will know more than me, but I’d imagine communicating with them sooner rather than later would be beneficial for you. They will only come back for more.

It seems that you have checked your account activity and know how many times you have done this. It would likely also be beneficial to detail these, own up and apologise, with the usual caveat that you won’t do it again. On top of this, expect to pay the difference plus a significant sum, if or when they decide to offer an out of court settlement.

Good luck with the case!
 

Titfield

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2013
Messages
3,239
It appears that a sentence has been missed from the email advising you of the deadline for a response to be received.

Based on previous threads I would suggest the deadline is 10 - 14 days from the date of the letter.

I would draft a response as a matter of urgency and post it here for comment.
 

Bromsgrove123

Member
Joined
14 Oct 2024
Messages
8
Location
Bromsgrove
I have drafted the below and would appreciate comment and amendment from the board.

_______________

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am replying to your email of XX XXX XXXX regarding the interaction I had with a member of your team on XXX XXXXX XXXXX.

I have read through your email and I believe it is the point at which I should apologise for my actions on the day in question.

Since the incident, I have learnt that carrying out such dishonest practices is firstly illegal and secondly outright wrong and this has consequences for the whole railway network. Going forward, I will always pay the full fare for the journey I am intending on taking.

Given the seriousness of the issue and the Acts outlined in the email. I am very keen to settle the case without the need for court action.

I would like to work with you to ensure that any fares are recouped by West Midlands Trains, along with any costs relating to the administration of the case passed your way.

I hope the above is clear, however if you would like to discuss further in advance of replying, please let me know.
 

WesternLancer

Veteran Member
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12 Apr 2019
Messages
15,305
I have drafted the below and would appreciate comment and amendment from the board.

_______________

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am replying to your email of XX XXX XXXX regarding the interaction I had with a member of your team on XXX XXXXX XXXXX.

I have read through your email and I believe it is the point at which I should apologise for my actions on the day in question.

Since the incident, I have learnt that carrying out such dishonest practices is firstly illegal and secondly outright wrong and this has consequences for the whole railway network. Going forward, I will always pay the full fare for the journey I am intending on taking.

Given the seriousness of the issue and the Acts outlined in the email. I am very keen to settle the case without the need for court action.

I would like to work with you to ensure that any fares are recouped by West Midlands Trains, along with any costs relating to the administration of the case passed your way.

I hope the above is clear, however if you would like to discuss further in advance of replying, please let me know.
I'd be tempted to avoid using the word 'illegal' (essentially an admission of guilt in writing) - but replace it eg with saying for example that you 'now understand the seriousness of what I did' and that this was wrong and has consequences etc

also whilst it is important to be seen to be co-operative it's best to engage with them in writing rather than discussions (people can say things in conversations that they might regret, and their main incentive in having any conversation with you is ultimately to gain evidence to support a prosecution) - so you could change the last bit to for example 'if you need any further information please let me know and I will do my best to respond'.

If you wait say 24 hours before sending your reply you can consider suggestions that others might make to your draft.
 

Haywain

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Joined
3 Feb 2013
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24,816
When I was stopped by someone who scanned my ticket, they let me on my way, nothing was said about it not being valid etc. but I knew at the time I’d paid for a short journey and it wouldn’t be potentially the last I’d hear of it given the fact it was scrutinised in person.
I'm puzzled - you say here that nothing was said but your letter refers to an interaction. What actually happened?
 

Bromsgrove123

Member
Joined
14 Oct 2024
Messages
8
Location
Bromsgrove
I'm puzzled - you say here that nothing was said but your letter refers to an interaction. What actually happened?
I was asked to show my ticket, which I had bought and not yet downloaded. I downloaded the ticket, showed it to the inspector, they scanned it on their phone and then let me on my way. We interacted but there was no conversation as such apart from being asked to download and show them.

That is literally it.
 

JBuchananGB

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Southport
It sounds as though you bought the ticket after you had got off the train at the end of your journey, or on a train during the journey. The law requires that you buy your ticket before you get on a train. So the inspector has probably reported you, even though you downloaded the ticket and presented it to them. Now you need to co-operate with them.
 

Haywain

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24,816
So the inspector has probably reported you, even though you downloaded the ticket and presented it to them.
Agreed. However, I think it is a bit underhand to report someone without advising them that you are doing so.
 

Bromsgrove123

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14 Oct 2024
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Location
Bromsgrove
So after asking for proof of railcard ownership (which I could prove) over the last 5 or so years, they offered me an out of court settlement which I paid right away.

I was in the wrong and I wont be doing it again, but boy was that original email awfully written.

1. No time period given for a response 2. The man stopped me and checked my ticket and never said any more however the email hinted towards an incident taking place/him telling me they would be investigating

I assume these investigators are basically just data analysts who send out blanket emails just changing the date of incident?
 

gray1404

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3 Mar 2014
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7,646
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Merseyside
So after asking for proof of railcard ownership (which I could prove) over the last 5 or so years, they offered me an out of court settlement which I paid right away.

I was in the wrong and I wont be doing it again, but boy was that original email awfully written.

1. No time period given for a response 2. The man stopped me and checked my ticket and never said any more however the email hinted towards an incident taking place/him telling me they would be investigating

I assume these investigators are basically just data analysts who send out blanket emails just changing the date of incident?
Not that the matter has been settled you quite within your rights to make contact again and raise these two points as I believe they are actually very important.
 

Lewisham2221

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2,751
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People often become aggressive when confronted about fare evasion. It seems that in this case, the person who scanned your ticket said nothing, but flagged your ticket as suspicious. The subsequent investigation proved their suspicions, so I don't really understand your complaint here. The simple solution would be to buy the correct ticket in the first place.

I do, however, agree that it's poor form for the letter/email not to include any sort of deadline/timescale for replying.
 

guilbert

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18 May 2015
Messages
64
I'm not really clear what the OP actually did (perhaps they would be prepared to elaborate a bit more now the matter is settled?) bit it's possible the irregularity only became apparent afterwards. It would be fairly easy to run a database query on scanned tickets too look for suspicious behavior / patterns and email them all inviting them to settle up.

It would be interesting to know what would happen if the OP had just ignored the initial email; I suspect not much.
 

Bromsgrove123

Member
Joined
14 Oct 2024
Messages
8
Location
Bromsgrove
People often become aggressive when confronted about fare evasion. It seems that in this case, the person who scanned your ticket said nothing, but flagged your ticket as suspicious. The subsequent investigation proved their suspicions, so I don't really understand your complaint here. The simple solution would be to buy the correct ticket in the first place.

I do, however, agree that it's poor form for the letter/email not to include any sort of deadline/timescale for replying.
No complaint about the process itself, just the original email making little-no sense. And as you say, if I had never done it in the first place I wouldn’t have found myself in the situation.

As the last reply stated, I could’ve ignored it and seen what came, but when faced with threats about the fraud at etc. I was keen to engage.

This forum was a great help.

I had to bite my tongue when a group of guys next to me in the train yesterday were all talking about how they do the exact same thing I had been doing. It’s all quite embarrassing so I’m reluctant to tell others.
 
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