Shipley-Sheffield Fare confusion

[bradders1983]

The man at the ticket office in Shipley just tried to charge my other half (at around 4pm today) £23.50 for a Open Return Shipley-Sheffield when it is usually £15.10

Add to that, the National Rail Enquiries website states the fare as £14.70

Can someone help as to why a ticket costing 50% or so more was attempted to be sold (what ticket was it?), and why the price discrepency online? I get a sneaky suspision that an ANY ROUTE PERMITTED rather than the normal NOT DONCASTER was attempted to be sold despite no Leeds-Sheffield direct trains going via Doncaster for the rest of the day!!!!! And if so, why even try and sell it?

EDIT - it now has gone back to £15.10 on the NRE website, so all a bit confusing. What ticket would be £14.70?

Should have stated no railcards were used.

 

[sonic2009]

The £14.70 is an Anytime Day Return route not via Doncaster.

The £15.10 is an Anytime Return route not via Doncaster.

Did you other half specify not via Doncaster this is where the confusion may be with the ticket seller.

 

[Tetchytyke]

If your partner didn't specify not via Doncaster then I don't see the problem in selling the any permitted ticket.

 

[bradders1983]

The £14.70 is an Anytime Day Return route not via Doncaster.

The £15.10 is an Anytime Return route not via Doncaster.

Did you other half specify not via Doncaster this is where the confusion may be with the ticket seller.

Why on earth should he have to specify it? How many trains a day go Leeds-Doncaster-Sheffield? Not many and I think they are all early EMT workings anyway, certainly none after 4pm!

The ticket machine at Sheffield when the reverse journey was done 2 weeks ago automatically popped up with the £15.10 NOT DONCASTER ticket.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If your partner didn't specify not via Doncaster then I don't see the problem in selling the any permitted ticket.

Behave, this is clearly a case of a ticket seller trying to eeek extra unneccersary money out of someone. I travelled Leeds-Sheffield for years and not once was I tried to be sold a ANY PERMITTED ticket.

 

[Adam0984]

Dare I say human error. Did they question it and get the correct ticket?

 

[Aldaniti]

If your partner didn't specify not via Doncaster then I don't see the problem in selling the any permitted ticket.

In that case it might be an idea to include the National Fares Manual in the school curriculum because its easy to imagine that hundreds of passengers who do not have such knowledge are being overcharged in one way or another every day.

 

[bb21]

I doubt the ticket clerk deliberately overcharged your other half as he has nothing to gain from it personally.

It will depend on the conversation that took place, but if no effort was spent establishing the journey requirements of the passenger then it is a poor showing from the clerk, but by no means fraudulent.

If you write to Northern and explain what happened, they should refund the difference.

In that case it might be an idea to include the National Fares Manual in the school curriculum because its easy to imagine that hundreds of passengers who do not have such knowledge are being overcharged in one way or another every day.

Are you trying to fail more students?

 

[sheff1]

If your partner didn't specify not via Doncaster then I don't see the problem in selling the any permitted ticket.

I don't agree. I have made 100's of journeys from Sheffield to West Yorks destinations over the years and have never been sold anything other than the 'Not via Doncaster' tickets - this without ever specifying the intended route. Anyone wishing to go via Doncaster would surely specify that routing as it not a way you would choose to go without some special reason.

It is the same with travel from Sheffield to Greater Manchester destinations - in my experience the 'Via Stockport' ticket is always (rightly in my view) sold rather than the more expensive 'via Huddersfield' option.

 

[Starmill]

Were it that Glasshoughton had a ticket office, and your other half went there and asked for the same destination, a rather different conversation and outcome might have been predicted.

 

[bradders1983]

Dare I say human error. Did they question it and get the correct ticket?

Yip. The guy even had to look it up! Like it is some obscure ticket or something...

 

[yorkie]

If your partner didn't specify not via Doncaster then I don't see the problem in selling the any permitted ticket.

That's not impartial retailing!

OP - I suggest you write to Northern and let us know what they say

 

[bradders1983]

That's not impartial retailing!

OP - I suggest you write to Northern and let us know what they say

Typing out an email to customer.relations@northernrail.org as we speak

Just looked at the timetable. Both trains that go Leeds-Doncaster-Sheffield have left Leeds by 0616!

 

[Starmill]

bradders I point out that the Leeds (or shipley) to Sheffield Any Permitted tickets still have a use after that time. The fact therethere's some direct trains doesn't change the fact that you might want to go that way at any time of day, for various reasons. It may still be quicker to change at Doncaster at some times of day too, so that point that there happens to be trains via Doncaster only really early in the morning only isn't any sort of reason why the Any Permitted ticket shouldn't be sold after such time. The clerk should check to find which is the most appropriate ticket for the passenger's journey requirements.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

The man at the ticket office in Shipley just tried to charge my other half (at around 4pm today) £23.50 for a Open Return Shipley-Sheffield when it is usually £15.10

Add to that, the National Rail Enquiries website states the fare as £14.70

Can someone help as to why a ticket costing 50% or so more was attempted to be sold (what ticket was it?), and why the price discrepency online? I get a sneaky suspision that an ANY ROUTE PERMITTED rather than the normal NOT DONCASTER was attempted to be sold despite no Leeds-Sheffield direct trains going via Doncaster for the rest of the day!!!!! And if so, why even try and sell it?

EDIT - it now has gone back to £15.10 on the NRE website, so all a bit confusing. What ticket would be £14.70?

Should have stated no railcards were used.

The £23.60 fare is the Anytime Return fare, routed ANY PERMITTED. Full list of fares below;

http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=SHY&dest=SHF

 

[bradders1983]

bradders I point out that the Leeds (or shipley) to Sheffield Any Permitted tickets still have a use after that time. The fact therethere's some direct trains doesn't change the fact that you might want to go that way at any time of day, for various reasons. It may still be quicker to change at Doncaster at some times of day too, so that point that there happens to be trains via Doncaster only really early in the morning only isn't any sort of reason why the Any Permitted ticket shouldn't be sold after such time. The clerk should check to find which is the most appropriate ticket for the passenger's journey requirements.

I speak from my 13 years of traveling betwen various points in West and South Yorkshire and that I have never, EVER, been attempted to be sold a ANY ROUTE ticket by default for a similar journey, either by a ticket machine or a human being.

Sorry mate, your excuses dont wash.

 

[bb21]

Your past experience is not particularly relevant. The clerk may well have been new and not fully aware of the pattern of sales.

I have already pointed out the possible failings by the ticket clerk in Post 7 and that should be the focus of your complaint, should it be the case. If you attempt to argue your case using logic set out in your posts, you will not get anywhere.

 

[bradders1983]

Fair enough BB21, why is it that the £15.10 option comes up first on ticket machines then?

 

[Deerfold]

Fair enough BB21, why is it that the £15.10 option comes up first on ticket machines then?

Some ticket machines are programmed to offer the most commonly bought tickets first.

Some are hard-coded to always show the same ones first - sometimes there is little obvious logic as to what order the tickets are shown in.

 

[bradders1983]

Some ticket machines are programmed to offer the most commonly bought tickets first.

Some are hard-coded to always show the same ones first - sometimes there is little obvious logic as to what order the tickets are shown in.

So why doesnt the ticket machines the human operators use show the same? He actually had to spend a couple of mins trying to find the £15.10 ticket.

 

[Deerfold]

Sorry mate, your excuses dont wash.

starmill agreed that you were not being sold the most appropriate ticket, merely pointed out there were reasons why someone may have wanted the other one. That hardly sounds like he was providing excuses.

 

[bradders1983]

starmill agreed that you were not being sold the most appropriate ticket, merely pointed out there were reasons why someone may have wanted the other one. That hardly sounds like he was providing excuses.

Of all the Leeds-Sheffield ticket sales, I would wager at least 90% are NOT DONCASTER ones. Is there any way of finding out?

 

[Deerfold]

And what would that be, then? Is that a threat?

I think it's a response to you being rude to his attempt to help explain why someone might the ticket you were being sold.

So why doesnt the ticket machines the human operators use show the same? He actually had to spend a couple of mins trying to find the £15.10 ticket.

Different machines, different programming. It may not be sensible, but every TOC system seems to work differently.

 

[Starmill]

Of all the Leeds-Sheffield ticket sales, I would wager at least 90% are NOT DONCASTER ones. Is there any way of finding out?

Not for you or me there isn't, no.

Nor is it in any way relevant.

 

[bradders1983]

Not for you or me there isn't, no.

Nor is it in any way relevant.

Well, we will beg to differ on that one.

 

[Deerfold]

Of all the Leeds-Sheffield ticket sales, I would wager at least 90% are NOT DONCASTER ones. Is there any way of finding out?

That's probably right - that's why the clerk should ask questions to determine which is the best for you.

It's unlikely you'd be able to find out (commercial sensitivity and all that).

Well, we will beg to differ on that one.

Are you just trying to be rude? Or do you not really want any advice, just a rant?

 

[bradders1983]

This isn't rude. Just seems to be a lot of defensive people on here, it seems. I cant believe for a second that the cheaper ticket wasnt on the screen in front of the ticket clerk. I can't prove it so ho hum.

No harm done given the correct ticket was eventually purchased. And with that I'm off for the weekend. If I get a reply Ill post it after I return from the States in a week or so.

 

[Starmill]

That's probably right - that's why the clerk should ask questions to determine which is the best for you.

Yes and this is the case regardless of which are most commonly sold or otherwise though.

Some fares are available in a proliferation of routes. Say someone turns up at Shrewsbury and asks for a ticket to London. Routes available are:

• ANY PERMITTED
• VIA BIRMINGHAM
• VIA HIGH WYCOMBE
• WARMSTER-SALSBRY
• ATW AND LM ONLY

Should the clerk default to, or only offer, the one of those that is the most common? No of course not, because everyone will have very different requirements! Do they want the fastest journey? How much of a premium are they willing to pay to get it? What 'type' of train do they want to travel on?

Because another customer wanted something else doesn't mean the clerk knows what you want. They are not a mind reader.

 

[Deerfold]

This isn't rude. Just seems to be a lot of defensive people on here, it seems.

There are people willing to try and explain how things work, which doesn't agree with the assumption you'd made. I'd say you came across as rather defensive being unwilling to entertain that the explanation may be correct.

I cant believe for a second that the cheaper ticket wasnt on the screen in front of the ticket clerk. I can't prove it so ho hum.

I have no way of knowing either way, but can quite believe that the ticketing system didn't make the ticket you wanted obvious. I used to buy my season ticket in London each year and it took the clerks about 20 minutes to issue it. They were very willing to help and I don't know what was odd about my ticket but it seemed to be very hard to actually make it come up on their issuing system.

 

[Starmill]

This isn't rude. Just seems to be a lot of defensive people on here

Not least yourself, it would appear.

And now I learn that all of for all of your nonsense, trust me, I am the last person who would make excuses for a TOC where they didn't deserve it, you were sold the correct fare as it was anyway.

I trust you have learned the lesson of being specific in your requests rather than trying to blame everything on them. You've certainly done so the easy way if you weren't overcharged.

 

[miami84]

Can just say I have met bradders1983 and he was sound. Sometimes people make mistakes. I've made enough!