Set Down Only

[Pumbaa]

Same sort of thing happens at Edinburgh with out NXEC Glasgow services. They stop Waverly then at Haymarket (to pick up only) but there is always someone that gets off from Waverley. So they use it like a local service think they can just get off then on.

Sometimes they do have the set down and pickup only at silly places. For example Watford, not sure if its all or some virgin services stop to drop off passengers. What if you want to get from Watford to Euston quickly, not on a the London Overground DC stopping service you won't ! Not sure if there is another way to get from Watford to London quickly. Most London Midland services stop at Harrow and Wembley don't they.

Only an hourly EBW service stops, and them some extras in the peaks. No Manchesters stop at WFJ at all now, not sure about the others.

4 tph from WFJ to EUS, 2 go fast, 1 stops at Harrow and Bushey, 1 stops at just Harrow. Usually around 19 mins to London from Watford. Virgin takes 15, so hardly the end of the world.

Now I'm not sure of the legality of charging someone getting on at Watford a single from say Crewe to London. Don't the conditions of carriage state that the person will be charge a standard single for the journey being made?? Therefore Watford to London and not Crewe to London?

And then you've got the pick up only problem. Doing a WSMR train from Marylebone to Wolverhampton (pick up only) and then getting off. They can't stop you!! Discuss.

I think because Virgin don't offer a Watford - Euston fare, they charge the next applicable one?

 

[87015]

Looks like the Watford mentality has changed a lot since I was doing it occasionally pre-Pendo then.

More high quality passenger friendly Virgin Trains mentality...!

 

[Lee_Again]

AT Stevenage, NXEC (and towards the end, GNER) allow all services to be boarded or alighted. This wasn't always the case with some early ups and evening downs being restricted.
Hull Trains use an interesting tactic which is to stop at the very south end of the platform when going to London. As they are only 4/5 coaches people rarely bother to walk down and board them.
The station staff are quite hot on this too. They know where the rear of the train will be and stand there stopping people from passing.
Would like to see what happens if someone did manage to board though.
Many years ago I once had a row with a Gaurd on a Kings Cross Stevenage run, pre GNER. I had an annual season and told him it was valid on any train. He gave some story but by the time we argued we stopped and I got off.

 

[nedchester]

I think because Virgin don't offer a Watford - Euston fare, they charge the next applicable one?

What do you mean Virgin don't offer a Watford to Euston fare. They surely have to charge a full standard single Watford to London as per the fares manual! They can't make the rules up as they go along!!

 

[A0]

What do you mean Virgin don't offer a Watford to Euston fare. They surely have to charge a full standard single Watford to London as per the fares manual! They can't make the rules up as they go along!!

I don't think it's making up the rules as they go along, more likely that Watford Junc - Euston isn't an advertised service for Virgin therefore they don't have an obligation to accept the 'standard' fare.

Virgin have largely got round this now by using MKC as it's first stop out of London for most services. Watford always seemed a bit close to London to be the first pick up on Inter City services as it can't be more than 10 miles from Euston - compare that with Stevenage (approx 30 miles) Luton (approx 30 miles) or Reading (at least 40 miles).

 

[Pumbaa]

I don't think it's making up the rules as they go along, more likely that Watford Junc - Euston isn't an advertised service for Virgin therefore they don't have an obligation to accept the 'standard' fare.

Virgin have largely got round this now by using MKC as it's first stop out of London for most services. Watford always seemed a bit close to London to be the first pick up on Inter City services as it can't be more than 10 miles from Euston - compare that with Stevenage (approx 30 miles) Luton (approx 30 miles) or Reading (at least 40 miles).

Watford is 17 miles, Stevenage 27 and Luton 30.

 

[Edvid]

Approximate distances from London are as follows:
Watford Junction - 17.5 miles
Stevenage - 27.5 miles
Luton - 30.25 miles
Reading - 36 miles

Reading benefits from 4 or 5 non-stop trains an hour to/from London off-peak, whereas it's 1tph for Stevenage and Luton each. Woking and Luton Airport Parkway (24.25/29.25 miles from London respectively) also benefit from 1tph (each) off-peak.

 

[sven945]

Looks like the Watford mentality has changed a lot since I was doing it occasionally pre-Pendo then.

More high quality passenger friendly Virgin Trains mentality...!

Why should they be "passenger friendly" towards people who aren't entitled to travel on their services? Presumably Virgin don't get money from Euston to Watford tickets?

 

[87015]

Why should they be "passenger friendly" towards people who aren't entitled to travel on their services? Presumably Virgin don't get money from Euston to Watford tickets?

Why isn't that railway run for the passengers then? Too many jumped up little jobsworths perhaps...?

How exactly is charging someone Cov-Euston for a Watford-Euston journey even somewhat a reasonable thing to do?

Virgin lost any claim to the moral high ground on this one when they decided they did want to carry passengers Watford-Euston and v/v a few years back to get the revenue. Changing your mind when you bring in new trains with not enough seats is a pretty poor way to operate IMO. But then they like just dumping passengers anyway. They still get a large percentage of Bletchley, Leighton-Euston tickets dont know about others) so if they are getting revenue there they are "not entitled to" why shouldn't the opposit occur from Watford. Its not as though all these off-peak EBWs are running around packed to the rafters either unless there are lots of passengers hiding as they arrive/depart Cov the other day when I was nosing. They get revenue from all destinations to Wembley Central aswell and objected to the Southern service to MK because of this, obviously they have provided a good Wembley service over the years?

Then again given how they have decimated any useful IC service to/from Watford unless you want to go to Birmingham (despite the previous alternating to everywhere stopping pattern having worked almost since electrification) its fairly moot point. What was the quote at Nuneaton ticket office by some normal on Saturday, "horrible trains and an even worse mentality" copyright some ada, and I couldn't agree more.

 

[A0]

Why isn't that railway run for the passengers then? Too many jumped up little jobsworths perhaps...?

How exactly is charging someone Cov-Euston for a Watford-Euston journey even somewhat a reasonable thing to do?

Virgin lost any claim to the moral high ground on this one when they decided they did want to carry passengers Watford-Euston and v/v a few years back to get the revenue. Changing your mind when you bring in new trains with not enough seats is a pretty poor way to operate IMO. But then they like just dumping passengers anyway. They still get a large percentage of Bletchley, Leighton-Euston tickets dont know about others) so if they are getting revenue there they are "not entitled to" why shouldn't the opposit occur from Watford. Its not as though all these off-peak EBWs are running around packed to the rafters either unless there are lots of passengers hiding as they arrive/depart Cov the other day when I was nosing. They get revenue from all destinations to Wembley Central aswell and objected to the Southern service to MK because of this, obviously they have provided a good Wembley service over the years?

Then again given how they have decimated any useful IC service to/from Watford unless you want to go to Birmingham (despite the previous alternating to everywhere stopping pattern having worked almost since electrification) its fairly moot point. What was the quote at Nuneaton ticket office by some normal on Saturday, "horrible trains and an even worse mentality" copyright some ada, and I couldn't agree more.

I thought the refusal to carry Euston - Watford passengers on Inter City services long pre-dated Virgin's arrival? Definately on the ECML it was in BR days that you couldn't travel from Stevenage to London on Inter City and vice versa, so I'd have thought a similar policy applied on the other lines. Wasn't aware that Virgin removed that restriction - that would have seemed a very odd thing to do.

 

[The_Rail_WAy]

Never really understood the whole 'set down' thing really. If a train stops on a platform and lets people off you can't really prevent people from getting on unless you have security men at each door! Is this practice carried out in other countries?

 

[sven945]

Why isn't that railway run for the passengers then? Too many jumped up little jobsworths perhaps...?

The Virgin railway is run for passengers going longer distances. There's the choice of Midland or Overground services which are there for passengers between Euston and Watford.

And when does someone doing their job to keep the railways running turn into being a "jobsworth"? When a policy that seems to be acceptable for most people annoys you?

 

[Mojo]

Never really understood the whole 'set down' thing really. If a train stops on a platform and lets people off you can't really prevent people from getting on unless you have security men at each door! Is this practice carried out in other countries?

Happens at Boston (Route 128) and Back Bay stations in the USA. These are both stations located near/within the city and they want to presumably discorage people from using the Acela Express/Regional trains instead of the local services.

 

[HSTfan!!!]

at newport we have the one set down only 1C36, 2330 off pad, comes about 0200-0215 usually, but the last pickup train is just after 1, so in most cases the station is locked then opened to allow the punters off the train out.

 

[Edvid]

The NXEA London-Norwich services are set-down/pick-up (as appropriate) at Stratford and Shenfield aren't they? About 2 months ago I travelled from Colchester to Shenfield on such a service and when I got off I noticed the service was advertised on the departure screen with no mention of said restrictions whatsoever.

I was at Shenfield again (earlier this week) and this time the restrictions were advertised for the relevant services. Even so one passenger towards the London end of platform 2 joined a service from Norwich just as the guard walked onto the platform!