Set Down Only

[EMT Commuter]

Could someone explain what "Set Down Only" means in operational terms. Sometimes it is shown in the timetable on inter-city routes at penultimate stations on longer journeys, for example at Watford Junction some London bound Virgin services may be shown as set down only.

Does this mean passengers cannot board or should not board? I imagine it would be quite difficult to prevent someone from doing so if the despatcher is keen to get the train on its way.

Does the train still have to depart right-time or can it go early as it should not be picking up any passengers?

Many thanks

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Set down means that the train is not sheduled to pick up passengers at that station, either because it needs to get moving to allow another train to arrive, or because there is a contractual obligation involved (which I believe applies to some WSMR services)

The train will not be shown on any departure boards, although it should still appear on any arrival boards. Passengers should not board the train (I don't know if there is a legal stance on people who do board).

The train will still have to leave 'right time' but the wait at the station will likely be less than normal.

 

[richa2002]

From my experience at Stevenage station coming off a southbound train, they let the train go even if it's early.

 

[LucaZone]

Will the station announcements note the train as 'not in use' for those on the platform before it arrives? Or maybe 'This train is not scheduled to stop at this station'.

 

[devon_metro]

You board the train at your own risk. If a Glasgow - Euston stopped at Preston, Watford Jn (set down), you would face the risk of being excessed your Watford Jn- Euston to a Preston - Euston SDS which might be quite pricey!

 

[87015]

You board the train at your own risk. If a Glasgow - Euston stopped at Preston, Watford Jn (set down), you would face the risk of being excessed your Watford Jn- Euston to a Preston - Euston SDS which might be quite pricey!

Hmmm, I've never been, seen or heard of anyone getting chung up for a Watford-Euston leap so I'd suspect it is an urban myth myself. These days in the main its only EBWs that stop so you could only be chinged from Cov if you did get unlucky with some desperate fool.

Leaping off a down at Watford tends to agitate the platform berts there a bit though. Again nothing more than a glare or "you shouldn't be doing that sir".

 

[sven945]

And, in the case of that Virgin example, presumably Virgin won't get any of the money from Watford-Euston tickets. So if you did join you'd be treated as if you had no ticket presumably.

Virgin don't want people taking up valuable seats on their long haul routes if they're only going as far as Watford either.

I think there are only one or two Virgin services a day that call there.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

if you did get unlucky with some desperate fool.

What do you mean by that? A "desperate fool" doing their job and protecting the revenue of the company, protecting the franchise and making a better railway system for everyone? Well, everyone who pays their dues for the journeys they make that is.

 

[Edvid]

The NXEA London-Norwich services are set-down/pick-up (as appropriate) at Stratford and Shenfield aren't they? About 2 months ago I travelled from Colchester to Shenfield on such a service and when I got off I noticed the service was advertised on the departure screen with no mention of said restrictions whatsoever.

 

[TEW]

Set down only services are not usually advertised at the station and will leave as soon as they are ready, even if it is early, if you board with a ticket from that station you technically have an invalid ticket for that train so could be charged the full price single from the previous station.

 

[Gizmogle]

At Stockport, Nouthbound Pendos set down only and it's always announced and showed on the boards.

Something along the lines of the train being from London Euston and is set down only, so passengers cannot board. It actually mentions on the boards that it's a set down.

I've seen plenty of people hopping on when the dispatch and TM aren't watching.
But then I've also seen someone get severely b*llocked after being caught try to get on one.

 

[John_158]

How do you Stop them thogh ?

 

[Gizmogle]

If people are told that they cannot board a train, then most of them won't.

It's just the ocassional person that thinks they can get away with it.

You also get the same problem with clever people getting off at pick up only stops.

 

[Guinness]

How do you Stop them thogh ?

Laser Beams across the doorway. No legs = No Train.

 

[adc82140]

All non-suburban up trains at Clapham Junction (SWT side) are set down only. As there is a huge selection of suburban trains to get you into Waterloo I don't suppose they have a problem. Also all the set down onlys stop on platforms 7 or 8 - there are no trains that pick up from these platforms, so if you were seen to be loitering here I'm sure staff would kick you off.

 

[class 313]

Laser Beams across the doorway. No legs = No Train.

I've hopped on the Stratford 90's when they are set down before, a slight telling off but usually they are fine with it.

 

[dan_atki]

All non-suburban up trains at Clapham Junction (SWT side) are set down only. As there is a huge selection of suburban trains to get you into Waterloo I don't suppose they have a problem. Also all the set down onlys stop on platforms 7 or 8 - there are no trains that pick up from these platforms, so if you were seen to be loitering here I'm sure staff would kick you off.

Strictly speaking that is incorrect. All longer distance services (those to Basingstoke and beyond) are pick up only from platform 9 at CLJ. In the opposite direction, SWT do not have set downs - all trains that stop on platform 7 are both pick up and set down - they are announced and shown on screens as for Waterloo only. Also platform 8 cannot be used by trains stopping at CLJ due to the large gap between the train and the platform.

 

[Pumbaa]

There is a set down at Watford every hour with the EBW services. Some extra in peaks. During peaks especially, staff numbers on VT platforms increases. I've seen telling off of people going Eus - Watford; not much hassle though.

However, I've seen people being chinged getting on at Watford, including myself! Admittedly it was a stupid thing to do. Since doing that, I've seen people charged left right and centre. Platform staff tell you off if your loitering. FC host stands at the end, and notices people getting into FC vestibules. TM usually stands at carriage A or E and watches the SC section. TM then chings anyone in SC, and gets the nod from the FC hosts if appropriate. Damn the observant FC host on that service last June!

 

[heart-of-wessex]

I've done Stratford to Liverpool Street many of times on a 90 set in the eveing peaks with my travelcard, simply to get a required 86/90 in the book (when i did that, that is). Jumped at the front door so was behind the loco, guard never came round once through the times i did it.


cheers,

James.

 

[TDK]

If people are told that they cannot board a train, then most of them won't.

It's just the ocassional person that thinks they can get away with it.

You also get the same problem with clever people getting off at pick up only stops.

I have to dissagree with that, I have had people tugging at the doors of a sandite train in the past. If it stops at a ststion no matter what announcments or what people say you always get someone trying to get on

 

[Gizmogle]

These are incredibly stupid people then.

Most people that realise it's not a service train won't try and get on.

 

[route:oxford]

It always surprised me the number of people who confuse can not, must not, should not & will not.

Can not - Personal impediment.
Must not - Formal instruction.
Should not - Guidance, but up to the individual to make a decision.
Will not - Personal choice.

So if I were to be told that I cannot board a train (at a set down only station) I would see it as a personal challenge to whoever was paying attention that I did not have that particular personal impediment...

 

[455/8]

Strictly speaking that is incorrect. All longer distance services (those to Basingstoke and beyond) are pick up only from platform 9 at CLJ. In the opposite direction, SWT do not have set downs - all trains that stop on platform 7 are both pick up and set down - they are announced and shown on screens as for Waterloo only. Also platform 8 cannot be used by trains stopping at CLJ due to the large gap between the train and the platform.

As a guard for swt i have done a couple of "set down only" i do it quite offen when i take the 00:27 Waterloo - Surbiton we do a set down only at Earlsfield and Berrylands where the on board PIS will announce that the train is stopping at the next station but the CIS on the platform says "stand away from the train platform 3 or 2 this train is not for public use" but normally if there are any people on the platform they will still board the train and we do use platform 8 for stops but not often due to the gap but i have stopped there at least twice before.

Alan

 

[thefab444]

Platform 8 is used occasionally, but far from regularily.

 

[dan_atki]

As a guard for swt i have done a couple of "set down only" i do it quite offen when i take the 00:27 Waterloo - Surbiton we do a set down only at Earlsfield and Berrylands where the on board PIS will announce that the train is stopping at the next station but the CIS on the platform says "stand away from the train platform 3 or 2 this train is not for public use" but normally if there are any people on the platform they will still board the train and we do use platform 8 for stops but not often due to the gap but i have stopped there at least twice before.

Alan

Yeah SWT have several set down points elsewhere on their network but I was referring specifically to CLJ in my post (should have been more explicit I guess ).

I am also interested to learn that a limited number of services are using platform 8 there too. SWT have declared themselves the platform is too dangerous to use with Desiros (and hence why a number of services non-stop the station - a severe loss of paths with everything needing to stop at 7).

Network Rail also state in the SWML route utilisation that the platform cannot be used 'due to the tight curvature' and it was suggested it was fenced off.

 

[EMT Commuter]

Many thanks for all the responses. The question seems to have generated lots of discussion. A secondary question if I may, to train planners - if there are any on the forum.

Would a change of the timetable to make a station set down only be problematic? The station being a penultimate one on the route and the 'fat' built into the timetable means that it is either waiting at a trailing junction for a train booked ahead of it or at the station wating to depart right time.

 

[nedchester]

Now I'm not sure of the legality of charging someone getting on at Watford a single from say Crewe to London. Don't the conditions of carriage state that the person will be charge a standard single for the journey being made?? Therefore Watford to London and not Crewe to London?

And then you've got the pick up only problem. Doing a WSMR train from Marylebone to Wolverhampton (pick up only) and then getting off. They can't stop you!! Discuss.

 

[455/8]

Yeah SWT have several set down points elsewhere on their network but I was referring specifically to CLJ in my post (should have been more explicit I guess ).

I am also interested to learn that a limited number of services are using platform 8 there too. SWT have declared themselves the platform is too dangerous to use with Desiros (and hence why a number of services non-stop the station - a severe loss of paths with everything needing to stop at 7).

Network Rail also state in the SWML route utilisation that the platform cannot be used 'due to the tight curvature' and it was suggested it was fenced off.

i checked most of the TTCBs (Traction & Train Crew Bulletins) i have been given recently and i can't find any saying that we cannot stop at platform 8 at clapham junction or that it is to be fenced off, as it's used mostly for emergancy's when theres a points failure into the UMF Loop but i have stopped there before as a booked stop and i can't remember there being any reason for us not to go into the Loop but generally yes all trains stopping at clapham junction stop at platform 7.

Alan

 

[dan_atki]

i checked most of the TTCBs (Traction & Train Crew Bulletins) i have been given recently and i can't find any saying that we cannot stop at platform 8 at clapham junction or that it is to be fenced off, as it's used mostly for emergancy's when theres a points failure into the UMF Loop but i have stopped there before as a booked stop and i can't remember there being any reason for us not to go into the Loop but generally yes all trains stopping at clapham junction stop at platform 7.

Alan

The RUS I was referring to can be found at http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%20documents/rus%20documents/route%20utilisation%20strategies/south%20west%20main%20line/consultation%20responses/s/tim%20stevens.pdf (apologies for the link direct to the pdf). Second paragraph of page 3 ('Gap 5') mentions about the problem. (That RUS was made over 3 years ago no less!).

SWT mentioned the problem in a copy of e-motion once which doesn't appear to be on the site.

 

[33056]

These are incredibly stupid people then.

Most people that realise it's not a service train won't try and get on.

There are some extremely dull people around.

Once heard of a woman at Willesden High Level boarding a train of assorted class 31 hauled junk, including parcels vans, bound for Old Oak Common. The service to Richmond was announced without the person doing so being aware that the ECS was standing in the platform waiting for acceptance from the next signalbox. Ada spied a BSK in the consist, so hopped on - totally blind to the fact that the train was rather different to the normal 2 car 416 unit :roll:

She would have been right away OOC, but for the fact the signalman saw her when she stuck her head out of the window whilst the train was standing at Acton Wells hock:

 

[LilLoaf]

Same sort of thing happens at Edinburgh with out NXEC Glasgow services. They stop Waverly then at Haymarket (to pick up only) but there is always someone that gets off from Waverley. So they use it like a local service think they can just get off then on.

Sometimes they do have the set down and pickup only at silly places. For example Watford, not sure if its all or some virgin services stop to drop off passengers. What if you want to get from Watford to Euston quickly, not on a the London Overground DC stopping service you won't ! Not sure if there is another way to get from Watford to London quickly. Most London Midland services stop at Harrow and Wembley don't they.