Services That Really Should Exist...

[Any Permitted]

Norwich - Brighton

Mocked-up XC Timetable. (I am so bored)
Mocked-up 'eastanglian' timetable.

Norwich
Ipswich
Stratford
Highbury & Islington
Kensington Olympia
Clapham Junction
East Croydon
Gatwick Airport
Brighton

Anglia Railways had a very ambitious shot at a cross-London service which linked Ipswich and Basingstoke via a smorgasbord of busy lines including the NLL and Kingston Loop. I don't think it had much success since the services weren't clockface timetabled and were often subject to delays and cancellation. Running any cross-London service is going to require some incredibly creative timetabling and I'm guessing that a clockface timetable will be a distant dream once you've worked out the service patterns but it's been done and I think it can be done again.

The service I'm suggesting would be a lot more useful than the Basingstoke service. From Norwich it'd follow the GEML until turning onto the NLL and stopping at Stratford, Highbury & Islington, Clapham Junction, East Croydon, Gatwick Airport and Brighton. This provides a great deal of handy connections and alleviates the dread many people feel about crossing London. Ok, it's total pie in the sky and the service patterns would mean it'd be an awkward service at best but I can dream, can't I.

Norwich - Birmingham NS / Stansted Airport

Mocked up 'eastanglian' timetable.

Norwich
Thetford
Ely
= Cambridge
= Stansted Airport
Peterborough
Stamford
Melton Mowbray
Leicester
Nuneaton
Birmingham New Street


At the moment XC runs a Birmingham - Leicester - Stansted Airport service using a 170 Turbostar, I don't know much about it but I'm guessing they wouldn't be using a two-carriage train is it was hugely in demand (actually, saying that, this is XC so who knows). NXEA runs services to Cambridge which could be extended to Stansted allowing me to re-route the XC service to reverse at Ely and operate a direct Norwich - Birmingham service which I think would be in greater demand. This would mean that people going from Cambridge / Stansted to the Midlands or vice versa would have to change at Ely, not too big a deal.

Great Yarmouth - Lowestoft

Mocked up 'eastanglian' timetable.

Great Yarmouth
Reedham (perhaps)
Oulton Broad North
Lowestoft

When I was a kid I used to yearn for the days before Beeching when I could walk out of my front door, about 100 yards and hop on a train to London or Lowestoft, there's no hope of restoring this since a Homebase, a Lidl and a bypass have been built over poor old Yarmouth South Town station but I think there is a way to operate direct Yarmouth - Lowestoft services again.

To do this trains would either reverse at Reedham or use a rebuilt chord at Reedham Jct. Although the route seems like a bit of long way round it'd take no more than 25 minutes (non-stopping between Yarmouth and Oulton Broad North) which is half the time the X1 bus takes. I would also run a free bus between Great Yarmouth railway station and the bus station, the station is a bit out of town at the moment and this way NXEA could poach customers right from under First Bus' nose.

GWML - Heathrow Airport

= Oxford
= Bristol
= Cardiff Central
= Newcastle
Reading
West Drayton (perhaps)
Heathrow Terminal 5
Heathrow Terminals 1, 2 and 3

As it stands if you're coming on the GWML and you want to go to Heathrow you either change at Reading, cross the station for a local service to Hayes & Harlington then across another bridge to change onto Heathrow Connect there or change at Paddington for the extortionate Heathrow Express.

My plan is to re-open the freight line from West Drayton to Colnbrook, build a chord from the GWML onto it before West Drayton (or possibly reverse a WDT) then build a tunnel into Heathrow Central utilising the Terminal 5 tunnel. This would be expensive, yes, but it'd make access a lot, lot easier. Whether there would be a direct service to the airport I'm unsure, perhaps a shuttle between Reading and the airport (Heathrow Express West). XC services from Newcastle would no longer terminate at Reading but go straight to Heathrow.

Whilst I am aware of Airtrack I'm just suggesting an alternative. Perhaps this tunnel could form part of HS2 as well.

 

[LE Greys]

Norwich - Brighton

Mocked-up XC Timetable. (I am so bored)
Mocked-up 'eastanglian' timetable.

Norwich
Ipswich
Stratford
Highbury & Islington
Kensington Olympia
Clapham Junction
East Croydon
Gatwick Airport
Brighton

Anglia Railways had a very ambitious shot at a cross-London service which linked Ipswich and Basingstoke via a smorgasbord of busy lines including the NLL and Kingston Loop. I don't think it had much success since the services weren't clockface timetabled and were often subject to delays and cancellation. Running any cross-London service is going to require some incredibly creative timetabling and I'm guessing that a clockface timetable will be a distant dream once you've worked out the service patterns but it's been done and I think it can be done again.

The service I'm suggesting would be a lot more useful than the Basingstoke service. From Norwich it'd follow the GEML until turning onto the NLL and stopping at Stratford, Highbury & Islington, Clapham Junction, East Croydon, Gatwick Airport and Brighton. This provides a great deal of handy connections and alleviates the dread many people feel about crossing London. Ok, it's total pie in the sky and the service patterns would mean it'd be an awkward service at best but I can dream, can't I.

Is it possible to divert that via the ELL? It would cut great lumps of time out of the journey, and would revive the old route under the Thames that saw Britannia-hauled freight as recently as the 1950s. The LBSC ran a passenger service into Liverpool Street, that's why the Terriers had names line Stepney and Fenchurch.

Norwich - Birmingham NS / Stansted Airport

Mocked up 'eastanglian' timetable.

Norwich
Thetford
Ely
= Cambridge
= Stansted Airport
Peterborough
Stamford
Melton Mowbray
Leicester
Nuneaton
Birmingham New Street


At the moment XC runs a Birmingham - Leicester - Stansted Airport service using a 170 Turbostar, I don't know much about it but I'm guessing they wouldn't be using a two-carriage train is it was hugely in demand (actually, saying that, this is XC so who knows). NXEA runs services to Cambridge which could be extended to Stansted allowing me to re-route the XC service to reverse at Ely and operate a direct Norwich - Birmingham service which I think would be in greater demand. This would mean that people going from Cambridge / Stansted to the Midlands or vice versa would have to change at Ely, not too big a deal.

Swings and roundabouts. I'd also transfer the Norwich-Liverpool service to XC, and order some centre cars for the Turbostars (a bit like the MML centre cars a few years ago). Whatever, it still makes it easier to extend the line to Braintree.

Great Yarmouth - Lowestoft

Mocked up 'eastanglian' timetable.

Great Yarmouth
Reedham (perhaps)
Oulton Broad North
Lowestoft

When I was a kid I used to yearn for the days before Beeching when I could walk out of my front door, about 100 yards and hop on a train to London or Lowestoft, there's no hope of restoring this since a Homebase, a Lidl and a bypass have been built over poor old Yarmouth South Town station but I think there is a way to operate direct Yarmouth - Lowestoft services again.

To do this trains would either reverse at Reedham or use a rebuilt chord at Reedham Jct. Although the route seems like a bit of long way round it'd take no more than 25 minutes (non-stopping between Yarmouth and Oulton Broad North) which is half the time the X1 bus takes. I would also run a free bus between Great Yarmouth railway station and the bus station, the station is a bit out of town at the moment and this way NXEA could poach customers right from under First Bus' nose.

One a day could easily go on to London, or at least Ipswich.

GWML - Heathrow Airport

= Oxford
= Bristol
= Cardiff Central
= Newcastle
Reading
West Drayton (perhaps)
Heathrow Terminal 5
Heathrow Terminals 1, 2 and 3

As it stands if you're coming on the GWML and you want to go to Heathrow you either change at Reading, cross the station for a local service to Hayes & Harlington then across another bridge to change onto Heathrow Connect there or change at Paddington for the extortionate Heathrow Express.

My plan is to re-open the freight line from West Drayton to Colnbrook, build a chord from the GWML onto it before West Drayton (or possibly reverse a WDT) then build a tunnel into Heathrow Central utilising the Terminal 5 tunnel. This would be expensive, yes, but it'd make access a lot, lot easier. Whether there would be a direct service to the airport I'm unsure, perhaps a shuttle between Reading and the airport (Heathrow Express West). XC services from Newcastle would no longer terminate at Reading but go straight to Heathrow.

Whilst I am aware of Airtrack I'm just suggesting an alternative. Perhaps this tunnel could form part of HS2 as well.

Excellent idea. Airtrack would allow this service to go on to Gatwick and Brighton. 2 and 4 might need XC to order some more stock, but I think that it must be possible to incorporate some of these into their next timetable.

How do you get the timetables to look so authentic?

 

[Any Permitted]

Is it possible to divert that via the ELL? It would cut great lumps of time out of the journey, and would revive the old route under the Thames that saw Britannia-hauled freight as recently as the 1950s. The LBSC ran a passenger service into Liverpool Street, that's why the Terriers had names line Stepney and Fenchurch.

Ooh this is a good idea, I know the space for a chord linking the NLL EB and ELL exists north of Dalston Junction.

How do you get the timetables to look so authentic?

A lot of effort and a little bit of skill. I like designing things so I just open up an Adobe Illustrator document and get to work. I just made this map for my TOC East Anglian Trains. Harks back to the old days of Anglia Railways, none of this 'one' nonsense.

 

[swt_passenger]

Ooh this is a good idea, I know the space for a chord linking the NLL EB and ELL exists north of Dalston Junction.

Yeah, I bet it'll be really easy to path a conflicting movement from the ELL northbound to the NLL eastbound in amongst the other 16 tph in each direction...

 

[tbtc]

I'd ... order some centre cars for the Turbostars (a bit like the MML centre cars a few years ago)

YES!

We need more centre cars, badly.

More 170 centre cars would free up a number of 153/ 158/ 170s which run coupled to 170s (e.g. London Midland's 153s coupled to 170s, Scotrail running 158s coupled to 170s, the doubled Transpennine 170s on some Hull/ Cleethorpes services), would also allow 170s to run on some existing Voyager services where 100mph is sufficient top speed.

I may get shot down here, but a 170 is no worse than a Voyager IMHO

As I've said many times before, we don't need *more* trains, just longer ones

 

[Any Permitted]

Yeah, I bet it'll be really easy to path a conflicting movement from the ELL northbound to the NLL eastbound in amongst the other 16 tph in each direction...

Can't I even dream? :cry:

I know any cross-London service is going to be next-to impossible but Anglia Railways managed it (kind of) from 2000-2002 so maybe with a lot of effort it might be possible to find a way across.

 

[Aictos]

I know BR used to run Birmingham New Street to Norwich services, Did Central Trains run these as well or did they get rid of it to have Norwich to Liverpool Lime Street instead?

170s on the current Birmingham to Stanstead service ought to be 4 cars while the 158s used on Norwich to Liverpool Lime Street ought to be 3 cars long like the 159s running as 6 cars between Grantham/Nottingham and Liverpool.

Still if they ever did electrified Waterloo to Exeter with 3rd rail and replaced the 159s with more 444s, the 159s could be used on the Norwich to Liverpool services with the 158s going elsewhere.

 

[tbtc]

I know BR used to run Birmingham New Street to Norwich services, Did Central Trains run these as well or did they get rid of it to have Norwich to Liverpool Lime Street instead?

Under Central, there were a handful of Stansted trains going to Nottingham/ Sheffield and a handful of Norwich trains going to Leicester/ Birmingham, but not many, and I think fewer and fewer as the years went on.

A lot of the "Provincial" service had hourly "core" sections under BR but different beginnings/ ends (e.g. some of the Nottingham - Sheffield - Manchester services went on to Preston/ Blackpool instead of Warrington/ Liverpool) - TOCs have "standardised" these

Of course, back then the Stanstead service normally ran beyond Birmingham to Liverpool, meaning Ely had a half hourly Liverpool service (some via Nottingham, some via Birmingham), but that's another tale...

 

[Robinson]

London Euston to Carnforth. Should easily be allowed to run as an extension of the current 3 trains a day that terminate Lancaster. No massive infrastructure improvements needed as the down platform at Carnforth station is reversible, electrified and long enough for a Pendolino.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Norwich - Brighton

Mocked-up XC Timetable. (I am so bored)
Mocked-up 'eastanglian' timetable.

Norwich
Ipswich
Stratford
Highbury & Islington
Kensington Olympia
Clapham Junction
East Croydon
Gatwick Airport
Brighton

Anglia Railways had a very ambitious shot at a cross-London service which linked Ipswich and Basingstoke via a smorgasbord of busy lines including the NLL and Kingston Loop. I don't think it had much success since the services weren't clockface timetabled and were often subject to delays and cancellation. Running any cross-London service is going to require some incredibly creative timetabling and I'm guessing that a clockface timetable will be a distant dream once you've worked out the service patterns but it's been done and I think it can be done again.

The service I'm suggesting would be a lot more useful than the Basingstoke service. From Norwich it'd follow the GEML until turning onto the NLL and stopping at Stratford, Highbury & Islington, Clapham Junction, East Croydon, Gatwick Airport and Brighton. This provides a great deal of handy connections and alleviates the dread many people feel about crossing London. Ok, it's total pie in the sky and the service patterns would mean it'd be an awkward service at best but I can dream, can't I.

Norwich - Birmingham NS / Stansted Airport

Mocked up 'eastanglian' timetable.

Norwich
Thetford
Ely
= Cambridge
= Stansted Airport
Peterborough
Stamford
Melton Mowbray
Leicester
Nuneaton
Birmingham New Street



Great Yarmouth - Lowestoft

Mocked up 'eastanglian' timetable.

Great Yarmouth
Reedham (perhaps)
Oulton Broad North
Lowestoft

How did you make those mock-up timetable covers/route map things

 

[A0]

I would say a a link between Hertford North and Welwyn Garden City would be very useful for diversions and ECS moves ie like last night, the last train to Peterborough got diverted via Hertford not calling at stations along the Welwyn route, it could in theory call as booked up to Welwyn Garden City then across to Stevenage via Hertford, might take some time but would be preferable to buses.

QUOTE]

The Hertford - Welwyn line (and the Hatfield - St Albans line) lost their passenger services before Beeching - neither were particularly well used lines and I'm not convinced they would be now.

There does need to be some link between the WCML and ECML south of the current one (which is Nuneaton > Leicester > Peterborough).

Using existing track a route from MK (or Bletchley) > Bedford > Corby > Peterborough would be possible. If Bedford > Sandy was reinstated that would help.

I'd like to think Northampton > Bedford would be a contender for reinstatement, but suspect not.

 

[Any Permitted]

Norwich - Brighton

Mocked-up XC Timetable. (I am so bored)
Mocked-up 'eastanglian' timetable.

Norwich
Ipswich
Stratford
Highbury & Islington
Kensington Olympia
Clapham Junction
East Croydon
Gatwick Airport
Brighton

Anglia Railways had a very ambitious shot at a cross-London service which linked Ipswich and Basingstoke via a smorgasbord of busy lines including the NLL and Kingston Loop. I don't think it had much success since the services weren't clockface timetabled and were often subject to delays and cancellation. Running any cross-London service is going to require some incredibly creative timetabling and I'm guessing that a clockface timetable will be a distant dream once you've worked out the service patterns but it's been done and I think it can be done again.

The service I'm suggesting would be a lot more useful than the Basingstoke service. From Norwich it'd follow the GEML until turning onto the NLL and stopping at Stratford, Highbury & Islington, Clapham Junction, East Croydon, Gatwick Airport and Brighton. This provides a great deal of handy connections and alleviates the dread many people feel about crossing London. Ok, it's total pie in the sky and the service patterns would mean it'd be an awkward service at best but I can dream, can't I.

Norwich - Birmingham NS / Stansted Airport

Mocked up 'eastanglian' timetable.

Norwich
Thetford
Ely
= Cambridge
= Stansted Airport
Peterborough
Stamford
Melton Mowbray
Leicester
Nuneaton
Birmingham New Street



Great Yarmouth - Lowestoft

Mocked up 'eastanglian' timetable.

Great Yarmouth
Reedham (perhaps)
Oulton Broad North
Lowestoft

How did you make those mock-up timetable covers/route map things

Adobe Illustrator, the same way you would do it if you actually worked for the TOCs. I get bored and this is what happens.

 

[The Engineer]

Under Central, there were a handful of Stansted trains going to Nottingham/ Sheffield and a handful of Norwich trains going to Leicester/ Birmingham, but not many, and I think fewer and fewer as the years went on.

A lot of the "Provincial" service had hourly "core" sections under BR but different beginnings/ ends (e.g. some of the Nottingham - Sheffield - Manchester services went on to Preston/ Blackpool instead of Warrington/ Liverpool) - TOCs have "standardised" these

Of course, back then the Stanstead service normally ran beyond Birmingham to Liverpool, meaning Ely had a half hourly Liverpool service (some via Nottingham, some via Birmingham), but that's another tale...

BEFORE Sprinters and "Provincial", there was a very irregular service from Birmingham to Norwich and Cambridge - 2 or 3 to each, daily. There were huge gaps in the timetable! It was old DMUs most of the time, but loco hauled (Class 31) services through to Yarmouth in the summer Saturdays! Just pre-Sprinter, there were mostly Class 31/4 hauled trains as the old DMUs collapsed and 31's became spare ex-Kings Cross suburban and freight. Looking at the timetable these days, it's hard to believe how poor the service was back in the 70's!!

 

[LE Greys]

I would say a a link between Hertford North and Welwyn Garden City would be very useful for diversions and ECS moves ie like last night, the last train to Peterborough got diverted via Hertford not calling at stations along the Welwyn route, it could in theory call as booked up to Welwyn Garden City then across to Stevenage via Hertford, might take some time but would be preferable to buses.

The Hertford - Welwyn line (and the Hatfield - St Albans line) lost their passenger services before Beeching - neither were particularly well used lines and I'm not convinced they would be now.

There does need to be some link between the WCML and ECML south of the current one (which is Nuneaton > Leicester > Peterborough).

Using existing track a route from MK (or Bletchley) > Bedford > Corby > Peterborough would be possible. If Bedford > Sandy was reinstated that would help.

I'd like to think Northampton > Bedford would be a contender for reinstatement, but suspect not.

Working with the idea, I think that it may be possible to come up with some sort of inter-route service that actually has a purpose, and improves airport access.

Route 1, Norwich-Cambridge-Stevenage-Luton-St Albans-Aylesbury
Starting with a western curve at Rickmansworth Jcn, connect the Croxley Green branch to Aylesbury, along with a diveunder at Watford Junction. Link the St Albans Abbey branch to the MML (using the old south chord and abandoning Abbey) and extend services from there. Hatfield-St Albans is one option, as is Welwyn-Luton, but the best would be an all-new line from Luton to Langley Junction. The rest is already there. There is the potential to extend southwards towards the old GWR Uxbridge branch as well.

Route 2, Varsity (part of Outer Orbital) (Thames Ferry-)Southend Victoria-Whitham-Braintree-Stansted Airport-Cambridge-Sandy-Bedford-Bletchley-Oxford-Reading-Guildford-Redhill-Tonbridge-Strood-Sittingbourne-Sheerness(-Thames Ferry)
An apparently pointless collection of services around London that form a complete circuit. It would be broken in places, but the Varsity Line is key to the northern half, and the Braintree-Dunmow-Stansted connection not only completes the circuit, it gets rid of a bus link that detracts from the airport's service.

 

[caliwag]

Glasgow Buchanan Street to Crieff...OK Queen St...it can stop at Stirling and er. Blackford (when it reopens) and Crieff...when the line from Gleneagles to Crieff is relaid...should be popular!8)

 

[A0]

Working with the idea, I think that it may be possible to come up with some sort of inter-route service that actually has a purpose, and improves airport access.

Route 1, Norwich-Cambridge-Stevenage-Luton-St Albans-Aylesbury
Starting with a western curve at Rickmansworth Jcn, connect the Croxley Green branch to Aylesbury, along with a diveunder at Watford Junction. Link the St Albans Abbey branch to the MML (using the old south chord and abandoning Abbey) and extend services from there. Hatfield-St Albans is one option, as is Welwyn-Luton, but the best would be an all-new line from Luton to Langley Junction. The rest is already there. There is the potential to extend southwards towards the old GWR Uxbridge branch as well.

Route 2, Varsity (part of Outer Orbital) (Thames Ferry-)Southend Victoria-Whitham-Braintree-Stansted Airport-Cambridge-Sandy-Bedford-Bletchley-Oxford-Reading-Guildford-Redhill-Tonbridge-Strood-Sittingbourne-Sheerness(-Thames Ferry)
An apparently pointless collection of services around London that form a complete circuit. It would be broken in places, but the Varsity Line is key to the northern half, and the Braintree-Dunmow-Stansted connection not only completes the circuit, it gets rid of a bus link that detracts from the airport's service.

A new line between Stevenage & Luton will be expensive and undesirable (cuts across Green Belt land and won't have anywhere of note to serve along he way). Also, the MML is pretty much full south of Bedford with few, if any spare paths.

Also, I can't imagine there would be too many takers for a Norwich -Aylesbury service.......

Cambridge (or Stansted) - Oxford does make a bit more sense and could more easily be achieved.

 

[LoversWalk75A]

BRIGHTON - LONDON VICTORIA

via
Lewes
Isfield
Uckfield
Buxted
Crowborough
Eridge
Forest Row
East Grinstead
Dormans
Hurst Green
Oxted
East Croydon
Clapham Junction

Note: This is totally unrealistic and would involve upsetting cyclists on the old trackbed (which would of course have to be closed to build a new double track main line between Eridge and East Grinstead, with possible link to Three Bridges!!!!).

 

[LE Greys]

Edinburgh/Leeds-Portsmouth/Weymouth
To link Scotland and northern England to the south coast ports and cut down on London transit times. Uses a new King's Cross-Clapham Jcn tunnel.

Sheffield-Brighton
Requires a second Thameslink tunnel under Gray's Inn Road. The idea is once again to cut down on London transit times while providing links to the south coast for places such as Leicester and Derby.

Glasgow/Manchester-Paris
a.k.a. Regional Eurostar. A bit easier to do, stock exists, only a few infrastructure issues to deal with.

Plymouth/Bristol-Norwich/King's Lynn
The true potential of a four-bore Crossrail

Heathrow-Stansted
Calling at: Paddington-Bond Street-Tottenham Court Road-Farringdon-Liverpool Street-Stratford-Tottenham Hale
The idea here is partly to cut down travel times to central London while achieving economies by combining the HEX and StanstEX fleets.

 

[generalvegitable]

Edinburgh/Leeds-Portsmouth/Weymouth
To link Scotland and northern England to the south coast ports and cut down on London transit times. Uses a new King's Cross-Clapham Jcn tunnel.

I would route it this way, and it theoretically could be done now without digging an expensive tunnel under london.

Edinburgh - electric
Berwick upon tweed
Newcastle Central
Darlington
York - change to diesel
Leeds
Wakefield Westgate
Goldthorpe
Sheffield
Derby
Loughborough
Leicester
Market Harborough
Bedford
Ridgemont
Bletchley - change to electric
Watford Junction
Kensington Olympia
Clapham Junction
Wimbledon
Woking
Basingstoke
Winchester
Southampton Central
Bournemouth
Weymouth

I doubt that many of these are actual routing points but it gives a rough idea of the route involved, some of the route may not be suitable for an intercity train but TBH I don't care.

 

[Scousefandan]

I think there should be a better stopping local service for the Warrington BQ-Crewe area. Acton Bridge and Warrington BQ are down the line from each other, yet there are no services that connect the two. It'd be nice to see a re-instatement of the London Midland service(using Class 350 EMUs) from Birmingham New Street to Preston via Wigan North Western, with added stops at Hartford, Winsford, and Acton Bridge-essentially a branch off from the existing Liverpool service. It would provide an alternative to those from the Wigan/Warrington areas travelling to the West Midlands, rather than being forced to use the diesel Voyager service that travels under the wires for the entire length of it's journey.

 

[Dave R]

I think there should be a better stopping local service for the Warrington BQ-Crewe area. Acton Bridge and Warrington BQ are down the line from each other, yet there are no services that connect the two. It'd be nice to see a re-instatement of the London Midland service(using Class 350 EMUs) from Birmingham New Street to Preston via Wigan North Western, with added stops at Hartford, Winsford, and Acton Bridge-essentially a branch off from the existing Liverpool service. It would provide an alternative to those from the Wigan/Warrington areas travelling to the West Midlands, rather than being forced to use the diesel Voyager service that travels under the wires for the entire length of it's journey.

First of all welcome to the forum

as for your idea for a LM Preston service, I would extend the current Euston-Crewe via Stoke service to preston calling at the stations you have mentioned. Perhaps this would be easier from an operational point of view.

If i recall correctly VT Euston-Glasgow used to stop at crewe? so reinstating a half hourly service between Crewe, Warrington, Wigan and Preston would be a good idea.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

If i recall correctly VT Euston-Glasgow used to stop at crewe? so reinstating a half hourly service between Crewe, Warrington, Wigan and Preston would be a good idea.

VT Euston-Liverpool used to stop at Hartford, which is why its platforms are 3 times longer than the trains that call there Yeah, the Crewe stop was in place until VHF Dec 08 timetable - now its first stop Warrington - its a shame: calling at Crewwe would open up North Wales, the west Mids and Cheshire into another Scotland service

 

[Scousefandan]

I suppose it would be easier running London-Stoke-Crew-Preston, but for those who have to travel into Birmingham from Wigan or Warrington have to travel on a diesel train whereas Liverpool customers travelling to Birmingham have the sleek electric Desiro EMUs. Have you guessed I'm not really a fan of the Voyagers?? Lol...I just think that it's a waste using them under the wires.

 

[222666]

I think all WC should stop at Crewe as it's such an important connection point.

Continuing the West Coast theme, Voyagers that end at Chester could go via Shrewsbury.

Also I think Pendolinos terminating at Wolves could go a bit further to Manchester or Liverpool, as to me the route seems a little short ending there (paths permitting of course).

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I suppose it would be easier running London-Stoke-Crew-Preston, but for those who have to travel into Birmingham from Wigan or Warrington have to travel on a diesel train whereas Liverpool customers travelling to Birmingham have the sleek electric Desiro EMUs. Have you guessed I'm not really a fan of the Voyagers?? Lol...I just think that it's a waste using them under the wires.

Its a waste of time them being in existance

 

[Geezertronic]

I think all WC should stop at Crewe as it's such an important connection point.

Continuing the West Coast theme, Voyagers that end at Chester could go via Shrewsbury.

Also I think Pendolinos terminating at Wolves could go a bit further to Manchester or Liverpool, as to me the route seems a little short ending there (paths permitting of course).

One EBW goes onto Stafford and Crewe (1843 ex EUS) but I am guessing it is more of a 390 shortage rather than paths that would stop this.

 

[Scousefandan]

It's not a waste, they need to be used on the North Wales line as it isn't electrified. And I really hope the Merseyrail City Line does get wired, will be so much nicer getting an electric train to Liverpool from Wigan and being there in under 30 mins, as opposed to the two car diesel Sprinter that you currently get and takes between 35-50 mins depending on whether you get the all-stations or semi-fast service.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

One EBW goes onto Stafford and Crewe (1843 ex EUS) but I am guessing it is more of a 390 shortage rather than paths that would stop this.

I think, like on the EC, where Peterborough/Doncater, york and Newcastle are all must-stop stations, Crewe should be too. I also think any non-stop WC services (1 ex-Liv, 2 ex-Manc and 1 ex-Preston/Glasgow) should stop at any one of Nuneaton, Rugby or Watford Jn, maybe the one from Liv xould call at nuneaton, like they used to, one ex-Manc could call at Northampton and watford Jn, and the Glasgow and other Mancs could call at rugby, and transfer the existing BHM-EUS Rugby stop to anyother Keynes halt
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It's not a waste, they need to be used on the North Wales line as it isn't electrified. And I really hope the Merseyrail City Line does get wired, will be so much nicer getting an electric train to Liverpool from Wigan and being there in under 30 mins, as opposed to the two car diesel Sprinter that you currently get and takes between 35-50 mins depending on whether you get the all-stations or semi-fast service.

I meant the Voyagers are awfully designed, not that tyhe actual sort of train they are are bad

 

[Scousefandan]

There used to be a Pendolino service to Manchester Piccadilly from Euston that called at Birmingham New Street at 1843 and Wolverhampton, before continuing to Stoke, and also on weekends Pendolinos served Wolverhampton en route to Manchester
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I would love to see Class 350 Desiro EMUs operating Merseyrail City Line services instead of the rumoured cascaded Class 319 units. Will never happen but I can dream, right?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

There used to be a Pendolino service to Manchester Piccadilly from Euston that called at Birmingham New Street at 1843 and Wolverhampton, before continuing to Stoke, and also on weekends Pendolinos served Wolverhampton en route to Manchester

Yeah, there were some right odd services before VHF: there was one about 1030 on weekdays ex-Manc Picc that called at something like: Stockport, Macc, Stoke, Stafford, Tamworth, Nuneaton, Rugby, Northampton, Keynes and Watford. it was overtook by three other Manc trains during the journey