Serco for Sleeper

[Bletchleyite]

Sounds like Serco are too used to Indian Pacific/Ghan thinking rather than National Rail Network.

Bit of both there I guess. Northern behaves itself, but Merseyrail too often does its own thing, e.g. day tickets (non railcard discountable) instead of CDRs.

Neil

 

[GarethC]

I presume a return ticket bought on the day would be valid on the FW day service on the WHL. My thinking being that, when I'm holidaying in the Glen Nevis area end of May, I can take the first southbound unit as far as Rannoch and leap onto the day service/sleeper?

It's marked as "Reservations Compulsory" in the timetable so I would assume they could refuse to allow you to board. I don't know what happens currently if you just walk up. With the existing ScotRail service you can reserve seats between intermediate stations on the WHL.

 

[Bodiddly]

It's marked as "Reservations Compulsory" in the timetable so I would assume they could refuse to allow you to board. I don't know what happens currently if you just walk up. With the existing ScotRail service you can reserve seats between intermediate stations on the WHL.

Or you could speak to the conductor on the way down because he might be checking the tickets on the way back. Not sure if the 'Train Manager' will be a Serco employee or not. They may be sub-contracted from Scotrail.

 

[Chrism20]

Does anyone know any more about whether supplements, and indeed free seating, will continue to be available on the sleeper?

It seems as though Serco want to separate the Sleeper from the rest of the rail network, ignoring those of us who travel to connect with the sleeper at either end.

Was there anything in the ITT about supplements etc when travelling on regular tickets?

The Scottish Governments aim when splitting the franchise was to increase usage and promote it more so it does seem a little bizarre that access to it is being restricted. I can almost guarantee though that the aim is not to restrict connectivity.

Perhaps an email or tweet to the Scottish Transport Minister might help.

Serco should by now have their ticketing and charging schedules sorted out and should at the very least be able to give you a definitive answer as to whether or not you will be able to do it.

 

[Norther Monkey]

Interestingly, the presumably soon to disappear First Scotrail website appears to be offering seat reservations and cabin supplements beyond 31 March.

Serco don't quite seem up to speed with things just yet.

 

[Kite159]

Interestingly, the presumably soon to disappear First Scotrail website appears to be offering seat reservations and cabin supplements beyond 31 March.

Serco don't quite seem up to speed with things just yet.

Nothing new there

I can foresee Serco won't last until the end of the contract, either hand it back or be removed by the Scottish government.

 

[DEE-DE]

Got a reply to my question: Lounge access at Euston for passengers in Standard Class is £5. This seems like a fair price (same cost at KGX and showers there are the same price, I believe).

 

[CyrusWuff]

Interestingly, the presumably soon to disappear First Scotrail website appears to be offering seat reservations and cabin supplements beyond 31 March.

No reason it shouldn't, given the service will still be running, albeit under new management. The FGW site will also quite happily sell tickets, including berth reservations, for travel beyond 31st March as well. No Advance tickets as yet, however, and no option for TOD if you book on sleeper.scot as yet either.

 

[Norther Monkey]

No, no reason they shouldn't. Just a shame that the company that will be operating the services can't offer, and don't seem to understand the use of 'standard' tickets on its services. Further they seem confused about berth supplements that other companies are selling for their services!

 

[Clip]

Nothing new there

I can foresee Serco won't last until the end of the contract, either hand it back or be removed by the Scottish government.

And you base your fortune reading on what exactly?

ETA: In fact I think its perfectly reasonable that the Scotrail website is still offering bookings - whilst the Serco Sleeper one is up and running they cant legally go all out advertising it just yet as they haven't taken over so to carry on taking bookings for after the go live date is perfectly reasonable and a sensible approach to the situation.

Anyone complaining that the EC website is still taking bookings for after their franchise has ended? No? didn't think so.

 

[Norther Monkey]

The issue isn't First offering tickets that's perfectly reasonable. The issue is that the new operator isn't offering, and when spoken to don't seem to understand, all the ticketing options.

 

[Bodiddly]

And you base your fortune reading on what exactly?

I have been very vocal in the past about Serco and their past dealings but you do have to move on and they do seem to be taking it all very seriously. The problem here is not the company though, it's the product. I just can't see it generating the income needed to provide the hotel experience they are desiring. That is why there are numerous murmerings within the industry that any company who took this franchise over will struggle to make any profit and will not last the distance. The logistic operation that goes into running the sleepers at the moment are massive and that will only get bigger as the hotel experience side comes into it. The old saying too many cooks is very relevant for this service. In order for the customer experience to be perfect it needs a lot of different companies to be working together seamlessly, difficult in the real world, nigh on impossible in the railway world!
They need to get it right from day one or it could be curtains before they get up and running.
Céilidhs on trains? Who would have thought it!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think just making it less of a faff to book will attract more passengers, to be honest.

Neil

 

[Chrism20]

I have been very vocal in the past about Serco and their past dealings but you do have to move on and they do seem to be taking it all very seriously. The problem here is not the company though, it's the product. I just can't see it generating the income needed to provide the hotel experience they are desiring. That is why there are numerous murmerings within the industry that any company who took this franchise over will struggle to make any profit and will not last the distance. The logistic operation that goes into running the sleepers at the moment are massive and that will only get bigger as the hotel experience side comes into it. The old saying too many cooks is very relevant for this service. In order for the customer experience to be perfect it needs a lot of different companies to be working together seamlessly, difficult in the real world, nigh on impossible in the railway world!
They need to get it right from day one or it could be curtains before they get up and running.
Céilidhs on trains? Who would have thought it!

I'd imagine the grand plans (or most of them) will only come about when the new rolling stock arrives. At the moment the service is restricted due to what they have, however costs will without a doubt rise due to the operation being standalone and staff etc not being shared.

When the new stock arrives the costs could be scary between implementation and running costs. I really, really hope it succeeds but feel it should have been part of the main ScotRail franchise with specific improvements detailed at the ITT.

I think just making it less of a faff to book will attract more passengers, to be honest.

Neil

Definitely needs to be much easier to book and as you have said in the past - a more transparent fare structure which Serco have went some way to addressing.

Plus the big one - marketing, if it is to survive and prosper it needs to be promoted far more than it is at the moment

 

[Bodiddly]

.......Plus the big one - marketing, if it is to survive and prosper it needs to be promoted far more than it is at the moment

100% agree. I've never seen any promotional advertising for the sleeper outwith the Scotrail website or station posters. A targeted marketing campaign is needed to trumpet the new operation.

 

[David57]

I have today managed to book a reservation on a sleeper with Serco.
They cannot (do not?) seem able to book a reservation only journey, ie, I have an all line rover, and do not need a ticket per se, just a berth in a cabin.

After many weeks trying with serco telesales (my details have been put on a 'intent to travel' list), but no firm booking.

I have seen an internal memo (courtesy of a travel journalist) that serco have no interest in passengers with the likes of rovers and britrail passes, and want all the revenue for themselves.

The staff at Northampton tried hard to book me a berth, but showed me the screen on their terminal, that said that it was not possible to book, but fortunately the travel centre at Euston managed to book me in.

Very sloppy practice from serco, can't see them lasting long in the sleeper business.

 

[Norther Monkey]

Does anyone have any figures for what percentage of sleeper passengers use regular tickets as part of a longer journey, or to use a day service return? Along with those holding rovers Serco seem to have a policy to drive these customers off the service.
I have a personal interest as it could impact on reasonably regular journey for me. It could also be something of an own goal as I don't see many 'leisure' passengers on the midweek winter Aberdeen service.
I don't want a comedian or a celidh, I just want a bed so I can maximise my time at home when working away. I'm prepared to pay a bit of a premium for this but fear Serco aren't interested in my type of passenger.

 

[najaB]

Does anyone have any figures for what percentage of sleeper passengers use regular tickets as part of a longer journey, or to use a day service return?

I know I'm only a single data point, but almost all of my journeys combine the sleeper with a day train. There's only been a handful of occasions where it's been sleeper both ways, and I dare say the same is true of a lot of people who have to be in London for AM meetings. It will either be a flight or daytime train back up to Scotland.

 

[scotraildriver]

As a driver involved with the sleeper these comments are unsurprising. Last year Serco reps visited the sleeper. They had NO idea the Highland train split 3 ways at Edinburgh. They thought guards in their 1k tartan uniforms could act as shunters and couple/split the coaches. They had NO idea of the complexities of the Edinburgh shunt. They didn't know some portions were worked by Scotrail crews, others by DBS drivers. All a bit worrying really.

 

[Agent_c]

As a driver involved with the sleeper these comments are unsurprising. Last year Serco reps visited the sleeper. They had NO idea the Highland train split 3 ways at Edinburgh. They thought guards in their 1k tartan uniforms could act as shunters and couple/split the coaches. They had NO idea of the complexities of the Edinburgh shunt. They didn't know some portions were worked by Scotrail crews, others by DBS drivers. All a bit worrying really.

Any idea what other jobs the Serco Reps had before (ie- were they from the Australian runs they do, Northern Rail, etc)?

 

[Bodiddly]

As a driver involved with the sleeper these comments are unsurprising. Last year Serco reps visited the sleeper. They had NO idea the Highland train split 3 ways at Edinburgh. They thought guards in their 1k tartan uniforms could act as shunters and couple/split the coaches. They had NO idea of the complexities of the Edinburgh shunt. They didn't know some portions were worked by Scotrail crews, others by DBS drivers. All a bit worrying really.

The fun and games begin on 01/04/2015 (or the night before or the morning after or.............)!

 

[Chrism20]

I have today managed to book a reservation on a sleeper with Serco.
They cannot (do not?) seem able to book a reservation only journey, ie, I have an all line rover, and do not need a ticket per se, just a berth in a cabin.

I have seen an internal memo (courtesy of a travel journalist) that serco have no interest in passengers with the likes of rovers and britrail passes, and want all the revenue for themselves.

Very sloppy practice from serco, can't see them lasting long in the sleeper business.

Very sloppy and that is one that should definitely be raised with the Scottish Exec

I know I'm only a single data point, but almost all of my journeys combine the sleeper with a day train. There's only been a handful of occasions where it's been sleeper both ways, and I dare say the same is true of a lot of people who have to be in London for AM meetings. It will either be a flight or daytime train back up to Scotland.

You can add me to that one. I have used the sleeper around fifty times over the last eight or nine years and I have never been on it northbound.

As a driver involved with the sleeper these comments are unsurprising. Last year Serco reps visited the sleeper. They had NO idea the Highland train split 3 ways at Edinburgh. They thought guards in their 1k tartan uniforms could act as shunters and couple/split the coaches. They had NO idea of the complexities of the Edinburgh shunt. They didn't know some portions were worked by Scotrail crews, others by DBS drivers. All a bit worrying really.

That is incredible, I would have thought research of the current movements would have been a given when submitting a tender.

The fun and games begin on 01/04/2015 (or the night before or the morning after or.............)!

I believe First are responsible for the journeys on the 31st and Serco from the ones the following evening.

 

[scotraildriver]

Who knows what will happen. Last week Harry Needle class 47's were to operate the Highland portions. This week DBS 67's will continue but with GBRF crews. Or Scotrail crews. Or both..... It really is looking very disorganised at the moment. Personally I'll believe it when I see it, whatever that may be.......

 

[dcd]

I have today managed to book a reservation on a sleeper with Serco.
.

Can you tell me what they are charging for the supplement. I will have a first class ALR and would want a first class cabin . I am currently weighing up the options of using hotels instead

 

[David57]

Without checking the ticket, I think it was £50.00.

 

[Liam_Hendry]

Can BR Staff "Priv" Cards be used for this service?
(http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=112711)

 

[alexl92]

As a driver involved with the sleeper these comments are unsurprising. Last year Serco reps visited the sleeper. They had NO idea the Highland train split 3 ways at Edinburgh. They thought guards in their 1k tartan uniforms could act as shunters and couple/split the coaches. They had NO idea of the complexities of the Edinburgh shunt. They didn't know some portions were worked by Scotrail crews, others by DBS drivers. All a bit worrying really.

That's unbelievable. How can they have even considered bidding without knowing exactly what they were into?

 

[higthomas]

That's unbelievable. How can they have even considered bidding without knowing exactly what they were into?

One would assume at least someone inside the Serco bid team understand's these things, and it was just that these reps hadn't been properly informed.

I am pretty sure that Serco wouldn't have won if everyone was quite that clueless.

 

[Altnabreac]

The Franchise Agreement has now been published on the Transport Scotland website and has some interesting information on the 75 new carriages:

11 Seated Cars
9 needed each night
30 seats plus 1 wheelchair seat
Sleeps 31

11 Club Cars
9 needed each night

12 Hybrid Cars
10 needed each night
1 PRM berth, 5 berths, 8 pods
Sleeps 14-20

10 Pod Cars
8 needed each night
24 Pods
Sleeps 24

31 Sleeper Cars
30 needed each night
4 ensuite berths, 7 berths
Sleeps 11-22

A typical (Edinburgh, Glasgow, Inverness) 8 coach half set will consist:
1 club car
1 seated car
1 pod car
1 hybrid car
4 sleeper cars

Consists of:
1 Wheelchair seat
30 Cradle seats
32 Pods
1 PRM berth
16 ensuite berths
33 berths
Capacity 113-162

The Fort William portion will consist
1 club car
1 seated car
1 hybrid car
1 sleeper car

Consists of:
1 Wheelchair seat
30 Cradle seats
8 Pods
1 PRM berth
4 ensuite berths
12 berths
Capacity 56-72

The Aberdeen portion will consist
1 club car
1 seated car
1 pod car
1 hybrid car
2 sleeper cars

Consists of:
1 Wheelchair seat
30 Cradle seats
32 Pods
1 PRM berth
8 ensuite berths
19 berths
Capacity 91-118

So the Fort William portion will continue to have a seated coach and club car added at Edinburgh and Cradle Seat passengers will have to change coach.

Overall it seems a good balance for each route.

The Franchise Agreement also seems to be explicit that the carriage of daytime seated passengers from Edinburgh to Fort William and Dalwhinnie or Kingussie to Inverness will continue.

Especially on the Fort William route this makes sense as there will be spare seated capacity because of the continued use of an extra seated car North of Edinburgh.

Lots more interesting information including plans of the different carriages here:
http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk...ement EXECUTION COPY 23 May 2014_Redacted.pdf

 

[Clip]

That's unbelievable. How can they have even considered bidding without knowing exactly what they were into?

Theres a big difference between a bid team and everyone else. They spend millions on these things so they do actually know what they are doing.

The staff they send out however, are another entity entirely.