Serco for Sleeper

[infobleep]

Not that different to a normal Hotel though, which you can compare it to. Where as the seated sleeper is more like a Hostel.

Let's face it. Most of us do feel uncomfortable sharing a small cabin with a random stranger, Maybe more so now than in the past. It certainly puts me of, I would only share a cabin with someone I know, otherwise it has to be solo or nothing. I think the Night Riveria has got it right in this respect.
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Does anyone know if the rumoured diversion to Waterloo International platforms is happening? I heard talk about that when Serco won the franchise, to get around Euston work.

Personally I think that would actually make a better permanent home for all the sleepers, as there are ready made very long platforms, allowing for much longer trains, and you could also have a much longer dwell time in the morning, which would be an improvement for the customer. It's not much fun being kicked out of bed at the crack of dawn.

Waterloo is a pretty good location for the City and West End, and the extra journey length could easily be accommodated in the slack in the timetables, or by leaving slightly earlier.

Same goes for the Cornish Riveria as well.

I assume SWT have their own plans for the space though.

A hostel offers a bed for the night. The seated sleeper doesn't. Big difference for me, which is why I've never taken the seated portion of a sleeper service. I understand though not everyone likes to be sharing with strangers.

However not everyone wants to have to pay extra just because they live alone and haven't found a partner in life yet or don't want to.

 

[3141]

It's quite likely that the person you find yourself sharing with is a bit apprehensive about the situation as well.

In 1973 I shared a compartment on the sleeper from Cairo to Aswan. Luckily the Egyptian I was sharing with spoke good English.

 

[infobleep]

Yes, the meals look nice. They will be fine on the earlier-departing trains, especially from Fort William/Inverness.

Perhaps the complete menu isn't yet shown on the meals page, but I think the Lowland trains should also offer a 'midnight snack' menu, as most people will have already eaten well before (e.g.) the 2340 departure time from Edinburgh. I use that train now and again midweek, and very rarely see a meal being ordered, so I can't see that changing, even with a more attractive menu - don't know if it's any different at weekends. I generally just have the cheeseboard, which I note is still on offer, with one of the very good wine choices (see photo!), but a bit more choice would be good.

Similarly, the wider choice of breakfasts will certainly be enjoyable while travelling through the Highlands at around 0900, but less so between 0600 and 0700 on early-arriving trains, when perhaps just some toast, cereals, croissant, etc should also be offered.

If it were possible to board the lowland sleeper earlier, would that encourage people to have dinner on it? Or is dinner on a train just something people do because they are on a train at dinner time but in fact they would rather have eaten elsewhere?

 

[dcd]

Can ticket offices not sell them, or is that only to the last day of ScotRail operation?

Neil

I have asked at ticket offices and they have no idea what is happening.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have asked at ticket offices and they have no idea what is happening.

Doesn't really bode well, does it?

Neil

 

[dcd]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned.

Just noticed that Solo use in Standard is more expensive than First Class.
Who would choose standard when for less money than first that comes with free breakfast and a £2.50 voucher for the lounge car.

 

[infobleep]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned.

Just noticed that Solo use in Standard is more expensive than First Class.
Who would choose standard when for less money than first that comes with free breakfast and a £2.50 voucher for the lounge car.

Perhaps they are hoping their are people who are not allowed to choose first even if standard is more expensive. Captive market. I'm just being cynical here. There will be a proper reason for it.

 

[marks87]

I'd have thought sole-occupancy should simply be double the standard price. Needing to pay an extra £31 on top of that seems a bit steep and does smack of cashing-in on expenses-funded travel.

 

[Chrism20]

One thing that surprises me about the charging/fare structure that is in place is that everything appears to be refundable.

I was speaking with someone who works in revenue management (Not in transport) and they also commented stating that this could be risky long term.

Not locking in some advance purchase which is a guaranteed income flow is strange, granted some people will always buy full open tickets due to the need for flexibility but this appears to be available to all and is not locking in any cash.

Walk up fares etc are fine for local TOCs and local services, however as others have mentioned as the services become longer the use of advance and non refundable tickets rises significantly.

 

[BRX]

We're going to get a few months of cl47 haulage over the summer? I predict some seated coaches well filled with rail enthusiasts...

Traction will be provided by GB Railfreight, with Class 92 electric locomotives originally built for Channel Tunnel services being used on the London to Edinburgh/Glasgow legs. Hired-in Class 47 diesels will initially be used on the non-electrified routes in Scotland, until the delivery of rebuilt Class 73/9 electro-diesel locomotives which is now expected in October. Single Class 73s will be used to Fort William and Aberdeen, with operation in pairs on the Inverness service. Three Class 86 and 87 electric locomotives are to be hired from the AC Locomotive Group heritage organisation for use on empty stock movements in London.

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...-signs-caledonian-sleeper-coach-contract.html

 

[CallySleeper]

The new Menu looks to be an improvement.

A little more information would be nice though.

Has anyone else noticed that in effect standard class won't be allowed to take up space in the lounge car?

 

[Altnabreac]

Spanish rolling stock manufacturer CAF announced on February 10 that it had signed the €200m contract to supply Serco Caledonian Sleepers Ltd with 75 new coaches for use on Anglo-Scottish sleeper services from April 2018, plus associated spares and technical support.

The coaches are being financed by the Caledonian Sleepers Rail Leasing Ltd subsidiary of Lombard North Central plc, with a £60m capital grant from the Scottish government.

The order covers four 16-coach rakes each comprising five types of coach, plus 11 spare vehicles. Future operator Serco says the cars will provide a mixture of travel options including first class en-suite berths, standard berths, ‘cradle seats for standard class guests’ and ‘pod flat-beds for affordable comfort’. There will also be a ‘luxurious new brasserie club car’, and improved accessibility. Edinburgh-based designer Ian Smith is responsible for creating a ‘contemporary’ style for the coaches.

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...-signs-caledonian-sleeper-coach-contract.html

Also some interesting new information in that announcement.

The new stock order seems to have increased from the 72 at the time of the Franchise announcement to 75 now.

This matches the current stock requirement so maybe they have decided they need more service spares than they thought.

It also specifically says there will be 5 types of coach constructed.

Presumably this means that each of the 4 classes:

• first class en-suite berths,
• standard berths,
• cradle seats for standard class guests
• pod flat-beds for affordable comfort

will be in a separate coach as will the ‘luxurious new brasserie club car’.

If they intend to operate all 4 classes to Fort William then this would definitely require changes to the current operating procedure as you can't run 8 coaches (a full half rake) to Inverness and run a 5 coach train of each class to Aberdeen and Fort William.

 

[marks87]

If they intend to operate all 4 classes to Fort William then this would definitely require changes to the current operating procedure as you can't run 8 coaches (a full half rake) to Inverness and run a 5 coach train of each class to Aberdeen and Fort William.

Are there cast-iron guarantees that Inverness will remain the sleeper's home depot?

It wouldn't surprise me to see it move to Polmadie..

 

[oldman]

Presumably this means that each of the 4 classes:

• first class en-suite berths,
• standard berths,
• cradle seats for standard class guests
• pod flat-beds for affordable comfort

will be in a separate coach as will the ‘luxurious new brasserie club car’.

Perhaps there will be composites. A full coach each of cradles and flatbeds would be a lot for each portion.

 

[CallySleeper]

Perhaps there will be composites. A full coach each of cradles and flatbeds would be a lot for each portion.

I'm not convinced there is a need for both either.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not convinced there is a need for both either.

I don't know...I can see that quite a number of people who presently share a berth might change to the pods. They will be less awkward than sharing with one person unknown to them.

As for the seats, if they're introducing a "couchette" class (the pods[1]), might they consider downgrading them to fit more in, e.g. going 2+2?

[1] I don't get this as an intermediate class, as if they're 1+1, as they near enough will have to be to fit them in, they'll take far more space than lengthways bunks, which would probably be more comfortable to boot - and for that matter the same or more space compared with a cabin for two.

Neil

 

[Altnabreac]

Composites would be one option but what would the 5th carriage type be in that case?

Unless it's a couple of day coaches for the Fort William sleeper traffic.

Remember that the ITT states that oversize luggage and bicycles must be transported through automatically on the Fort William portion. Seated passengers are also strongly preferred not to have to change coach.

So if the Lounge Car for Fort William is to be attached/detached at Edinburgh (as now) the luggage van space will need to be in the seated carriage instead.

Luggage and cradle seats and pods in 1 coach would be crowded.

The pods are not a required part of the tender though so they might not be available on all services.

I'd guess the Edinburgh / Glasgow / Inverness 8 coach rakes will consist:
1 x Club Car
2 x En Suite / First Class Sleepers
3 x Second Class Sleepers
1 x Pod Flat Beds
1 x Cradle Seats / Luggage Van

Then the Aberdeen / Fort William portions consist:
1 x Cradle Seats / Luggage Van
1 x Club Car
1 x En Suite / First Class Sleeper
1 x Second Class Sleeper
Possibly with another second class sleeper for Aberdeen if Fort William keeps the Club Car detaching at Edinburgh.

An alternative is that there are 2 types of seated coach, one with luggage van and a mix of seats and pods and another without luggage space.

 

[WatcherZero]

Perhaps they are hoping their are people who are not allowed to choose first even if standard is more expensive. Captive market. I'm just being cynical here. There will be a proper reason for it.

I would suspect price management in play and a lot of people have already booked standard class while few have booked first class.

 

[route:oxford]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned.

Just noticed that Solo use in Standard is more expensive than First Class.
Who would choose standard when for less money than first that comes with free breakfast and a £2.50 voucher for the lounge car.

I'm confused by that image.

Are women and children banned from the sleeper?

 

[cjmillsnun]

I'm confused by that image.

Are women and children banned from the sleeper?

No, because of single sex sharing on standard berths if not travelling as a group, you specify your gender, and if you have children, so as to work out how you would split your berth.

 

[Mainliner]

I don't know...I can see that quite a number of people who presently share a berth might change to the pods. They will be less awkward than sharing with one person unknown to them.

It's probably pot luck on each trip (especially as I have booked a shared berth and sometimes had it to myself), but when I recently shared for the first time (after being a bit apprehensive about it), I spent a good 2 hours sampling the delights of the lounge car, including the single malts, so the other person was asleep before I got back to the cabin, and they were up and out in the morning well before me, so it wouldn't worry me doing it again.

I once tried a seated sleeper journey, and wouldn't do that again instead of sharing, as there is no comparison with regard to comfort and sleeping position, although I acknowledge that the new pods might offer an improvement.

 

[jopsuk]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned.

Just noticed that Solo use in Standard is more expensive than First Class.
Who would choose standard when for less money than first that comes with free breakfast and a £2.50 voucher for the lounge car.

You're wrong. Sort of. I did a search for a different date and 1st was more expensive than standard solo.

So all it means is the classic AP tier effect is there

 

[Chris125]

Some more details regarding rolling stock have emerged on RMWeb:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/in...ld-new-lhcs-for-caledonian-sleeper/?p=1784819

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/in...ld-new-lhcs-for-caledonian-sleeper/?p=1785160

Chris

 

[Altnabreac]

Some more details regarding rolling stock have emerged on RMWeb:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/in...ld-new-lhcs-for-caledonian-sleeper/?p=1784819

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/in...ld-new-lhcs-for-caledonian-sleeper/?p=1785160

Chris

More confused reading that than I was to start with.

Seems clear that the 8 coach make up is:
1 x Pods + Train Manager
1 x Cradle Seats
1 x Club Car + Luggage + Staff
5 x Sleeper with a mixture of berth types

However the information on the Fort William portion seems to suggest that Pod and Cradle customers will still have to change carriage and that the Sleeper will not serve Dalwhinnie/Kingussie to Inverness or Edinburgh - Fort William domestic traffic.

This seems in direct contravention of the ITT:

Changes to services in urban areas may be proposed where alternative access to services is available, and where omission or replacement of current stops may have operational or timetable benefits. It is however important that a balance of regional connectivity is maintained and that the Franchisee works with the ScotRail franchisee and other relevant operators to ensure local rail service integration to and from the Caledonian Sleeper Services. As such service pattern changes should not result in the removal of access to the Caledonian Sleeper Services where there is no reasonable alternative access to the Caledonian Sleeper Services (e.g. at Highland rural locations),
or where services provide specific connections (e.g. a commuter service between Dalwhinnie and Inverness; services between Oban and Crianlarich, and Mallaig and Fort William; and the first/last services of the day between Glasgow and Fort William). The Caledonian Sleeper Services will be required to connect at Crianlarich with an early morning ScotRail service arriving at Oban before 08:30. The interchange time at Crianlarich will be between 15 and 40 minutes. The Fort William service will be required to call at either Glasgow Central or Glasgow Queen Street (low level stations) in order to provide a direct connection for Glasgow. The existing service requires a
connecting train at Westerton.

 

[marks87]

Unless they've been chatting to Abellio and have come up with a viable solution for ScotRail to provide the "domestic" services.

There would obviously need to be a bit of retiming involved - what's the shortest possible gap (time wise) between services on the WHL and between Dalwhinnie and Inverness?

 

[Norther Monkey]

Just been on the 'phone to Serco enquiring about using the post March sleeper. I often use the sleeper as part of a longer journey from the Midlands to Scotland (using an Off-Peak Return, using a day service on the way back). Depending on how flush I am any particular week I will either book a (free) seat or add a cabin supplement.

It appears that it is currently impossible to book the sleeper as part of a longer journey under the new franchise. The member of staff I spoke to (whilst friendly, and very helpful), was unable to either book a seat on the sleeper or offer a cabin supplement. There was a suggestion that these options would become available at an unknown point in the future.

The only option I was offered was to purchase an 'all-inclusive' sleeper ticket for the portion of the journey covered by the sleeper. Depending on the fares available at the time of booking this is likely to make the overall journey significantly more expensive.

Does anyone know any more about whether supplements, and indeed free seating, will continue to be available on the sleeper?

It seems as though Serco want to separate the Sleeper from the rest of the rail network, ignoring those of us who travel to connect with the sleeper at either end.

 

[GarethC]

I've been in email communication with Serco about booking seats on the northbound Fort William as a 'day' passenger. Their response was similar, in that it was a problem management were aware of and they will get back to me - copied in some @serco.com email addresses to the response too.

Their website is excellent for booking direct sleeper journeys (although it still lists 'Sold Out' rather than 'Not available yet' which would be helpful) and all the staff I have spoken to have been excellent.

It does however seem like they haven't planned for the Sleeper to be a 'rail service' as part of the network but then aren't able to actually say "it's not so you have to buy a specific ticket" - leaving through tickets, supplements and 'day' passengers without a solution in the mean time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think it'd matter as much if they did do that (like many of the European ones) if only we had single-fare pricing on all walk-ups.

Neil

 

[Agent_c]

I don't think it'd matter as much if they did do that (like many of the European ones) if only we had single-fare pricing on all walk-ups.

Neil

I can see how that might work given it is just a single service per route per day, but the Sleeper is supposed to still be part of the whole network, rather than an independent service.

Sounds like Serco are too used to Indian Pacific/Ghan thinking rather than National Rail Network.

 

[37038]

I presume a return ticket bought on the day would be valid on the FW day service on the WHL. My thinking being that, when I'm holidaying in the Glen Nevis area end of May, I can take the first southbound unit as far as Rannoch and leap onto the day service/sleeper?