Sentence disgrace

[strange6]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12664346

don't know what you all think of this but it makes me sick. ANYBODY who behaves like this should be thrown in Prison, make no mistake.

 

[Patrick]

Disgusting, if it was a white man burning a Koran then they would definitely be charged with inciting racial or religious hatred.

And no I wouldn't want them to be put them in prison, it's unfair that the taxpayer should have to pay for them. They should be deported, they obviously don't like our culture and way of life and want Britain to become an Islamic state so they should be sent back to their own countries where they can live under Islamic law.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Disgusting, if it was a white man burning a Koran then they would definitely be charged with inciting racial or religious hatred.

Yes, they would. But in this case they weren't burning a bible were they? Nor were they inciting religious or racial hatred, as the poppy isn't a religious or racial symbol. It's there to remember the dead, not to provide a political, religious or racial statement.

And no I wouldn't want them to be put them in prison, it's unfair that the taxpayer should have to pay for them.

You pay for murderers and paedophiles, so quite why you're saying it's unfair to pay for someone else in prison is ill thought through.

They should be deported, they obviously don't like our culture and way of life and want Britain to become an Islamic state so they should be sent back to their own countries where they can live under Islamic law.

If they are citizens, or have the correct paperwork then they have the right to live here, just the same as you or me. Remember - most of us will be descended from Scandinavia or France amongst others - should we be sent back there? Whatever their religious or political views.
It's a very worrying thought where you would be able to expel people from the country just for disagreeing with you!

 

[strange6]

Yes, they would. But in this case they weren't burning a bible were they? Nor were they inciting religious or racial hatred, as the poppy isn't a religious or racial symbol. It's there to remember the dead, not to provide a political, religious or racial statement.


You pay for murderers and paedophiles, so quite why you're saying it's unfair to pay for someone else in prison is ill thought through.

If they are citizens, or have the correct paperwork then they have the right to live here, just the same as you or me. Remember - most of us will be descended from Scandinavia or France amongst others - should we be sent back there? Whatever their religious or political views.
It's a very worrying thought where you would be able to expel people from the country just for disagreeing with you!

Most of these offenders were British which makes it even worse in my eyes

 

[Patrick]

Yes, they would. But in this case they weren't burning a bible were they? Nor were they inciting religious or racial hatred, as the poppy isn't a religious or racial symbol. It's there to remember the dead, not to provide a political, religious or racial statement.

The poppy represents all of the British people who have died fighting in wars. Burning that symbol could be viewed as being racist against the British. MAC are a very racist group, theres no point denying that. They've said in the past that they view non-muslims as inferior and it is okay to kill them.

You pay for murderers and paedophiles, so quite why you're saying it's unfair to pay for someone else in prison is ill thought through.

But these people want Britain to become an Islamic state, so we should do the easy thing and just send them back to their home countries, which will be Islamic states with full Sharia law implemented.

If they are citizens, or have the correct paperwork then they have the right to live here, just the same as you or me. Remember - most of us will be descended from Scandinavia or France amongst others - should we be sent back there? Whatever their religious or political views.
It's a very worrying thought where you would be able to expel people from the country just for disagreeing with you!

These people are extremists, they openly support al Qaeda and view people who kill non-muslims as heroes. They are a major threat to the non-muslims, and they should not be allowed to stay here. They could be planning a terrorist attack as I write this.

And having descendants from another white Christian country (probably hundreds of years ago too) is nothing like having them from a country much further away with a completely different culture to us. I don't view these people as British, they seem to reject British culture and values and if you asked them, they'd probably refer to themselves as Bangladeshi or Pakistani. I've come across no Muslims who identify themselves as British.

 

[43021HST]

Yes, they would. But in this case they weren't burning a bible were they? Nor were they inciting religious or racial hatred, as the poppy isn't a religious or racial symbol. It's there to remember the dead, not to provide a political, religious or racial statement.

By the way the poppy is a political statement, guess whats involved with wars, thats right politics. Durrrrrrr:roll:

 

[ralphchadkirk]

The poppy represents all of the British people who have died fighting in wars. Burning that symbol could be viewed as being racist against the British.

The poppy commemorates the war dead in every side (except the Germans...). The UK, Irish, Australian and New Zealanders. To view it as "racist against the British" is utterly ridiculous, as being British isn't a race and it doesn't just commemorate the British!

But these people want Britain to become an Islamic state, so we should do the easy thing and just send them back to their home countries, which will be Islamic states with full Sharia law implemented.

Everyone's entitled to their own point of view. We're not entirely blameless - remember back in 2001 and 2003 when the West has tried to enforce our idea of how countries are run on others?

These people are extremists, they openly support al Qaeda and view people who kill non-muslims as heroes. They are a major threat to the non-muslims, and they should not be allowed to stay here. They could be planning a terrorist attack as I write this.

Then that is inciting hatred, if it is true. And less of the paranoia based on how someone looks.

And having descendants from another white Christian country (probably hundreds of years ago too) is nothing like having them from a country much further away with a completely different culture to us.

Perhaps read up on history? The Vikings were thousands of years ago, and were pagans.
Also, Christianity's history is not squeaky clean as you might like to believe!

I don't view these people as British, they seem to reject British culture and values and if you asked them, they'd probably refer to themselves as Bangladeshi or Pakistani. I've come across no Muslims who identify themselves as British.

Whatever they refer to themselves as, if they have the right to live here, then they have the right to live here. You can't deport people who have the right to be here!
I've come across many Muslims who identify themselves as British, as well.
Also, the Qur'an is a book that promotes peace a lot more than the Bible does!

 

[ralphchadkirk]

By the way the poppy is a political statement, guess whats involved with wars, thats right politics. Durrrrrrr:roll:

Utterly incorrect. The poppy is a symbol to remember those who died in the horrific battles in the First World War (and subsequently, other wars) in areas like Ypres and Flanders.
It is not there to say whether the reasons for war were right or wrong, and nor to support one political aim, but only to remember those who died. Sadly, its image seems to have been hijacked of late as a symbol to say you support war.

 

[Deerfold]

Utterly incorrect. The poppy is a symbol to remember those who died in the horrific battles in the First World War (and subsequently, other wars) in areas like Ypres and Flanders.
It is not there to say whether the reasons for war were right or wrong, and nor to support one political aim, but only to remember those who died. Sadly, its image seems to have been hijacked of late as a symbol to say you support war.

I'd say that makes it a political symbol for those people regardless of what people want it to be - in the same way the Union flag is simply the flag of England but tends to be used in demonstrations by those who have a very blinkered vision of how England should be - the flag can then be seen as a very confrontational symbol.

 

[SS4]

The poppy represents all of the British people who have died fighting in wars. Burning that symbol could be viewed as being racist against the British. MAC are a very racist group, theres no point denying that. They've said in the past that they view non-muslims as inferior and it is okay to kill them

Ironically they're burning the symbol of what people of this country (and the Empire) paid for in blood to preserve.

But these people want Britain to become an Islamic state, so we should do the easy thing and just send them back to their home countries, which will be Islamic states with full Sharia law implemented.

Hard to do so if they're British nationals, instead try them for treason

These people are extremists, they openly support al Qaeda and view people who kill non-muslims as heroes. They are a major threat to the non-muslims, and they should not be allowed to stay here. They could be planning a terrorist attack as I write this.

+1. If they're British then lock them up and throw away the key. To ensure they don't starve give them bacon sandwiches to eat with the occasional pork chop for variety. If true Muslims aren't extremists then they shouldn't mind.

And having descendants from another white Christian country (probably hundreds of years ago too) is nothing like having them from a country much further away with a completely different culture to us. I don't view these people as British, they seem to reject British culture and values and if you asked them, they'd probably refer to themselves as Bangladeshi or Pakistani. I've come across no Muslims who identify themselves as British.

I've come across a few Muslims who see themselves as British but never a British Muslim but a Muslim Briton (subtle difference). Every other major religion I've seen are British first.

Also, the Qur'an is a book that promotes peace a lot more than the Bible does!

Doesn't say much! It's not so much the book which is to blame as is the interpretation placed on it. Christianity and Paganism have had their fair share of violence in the past but they've largely moved on. I still believe we won't see peace until organised religion is abolished due to mutually exclusive claims


edit: For anyone who disagrees this is my faith and so may not and cannot be challenged

 

[Patrick]

The poppy commemorates the war dead in every side (except the Germans...). The UK, Irish, Australian and New Zealanders. To view it as "racist against the British" is utterly ridiculous, as being British isn't a race and it doesn't just commemorate the British!

I mean the indigenous British, aka the whites. Call me racist if you want, but it's a fact that the indigenous population of this country are the whites.

Everyone's entitled to their own point of view. We're not entirely blameless - remember back in 2001 and 2003 when the West has tried to enforce our idea of how countries are run on others?

Hardly as bad as what these Muslims want to happen to Britain and non-muslims.

Also, Christianity's history is not squeaky clean as you might like to believe!

Christianity's history is a lot cleaner than the history of Islam!

Also, the Qur'an is a book that promotes peace a lot more than the Bible does!

LMFAO. The Qur'an is a book full of hatred against non-muslims (states that we are vile animals and muslims should never become friends with us) and promotion of violence against women (The Qur'an teaches that if a woman is raped it is her fault and she must be stoned to death for adultery) and homosexuals. These is even a chapter that suggests that all non-muslims should be exterminated, does that remind you of a certain event in history?

If you genuinely believe that Islam is a more peaceful religion than Christianity then you are incredibly naive.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

LMFAO. The Qur'an is a book full of hatred against non-muslims (states that we are vile animals and muslims should never become friends with us) and promotion of violence against women (The Qur'an teaches that if a woman is raped it is her fault and she must be stoned to death for adultery) and homosexuals. These is even a chapter that suggests that all non-muslims should be exterminated, does that remind you of a certain event in history?

If you genuinely believe that Islam is a more peaceful religion than Christianity then you are incredibly naive.

And you are incredibly wrong.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/09/0925_TVkoran.html

Muslims believe that the Koran is God's unfiltered message—teaching them how to lead a good life and become a better, more moral person.

Nyang quotes Chapter 3, verse 172, of the Koran: "Of those who answered the call of Allah and the messenger, even after being wounded, those who do right and refrain from wrong have a great reward."

"If people are intent on using religion to motivate terror or violence, they'll find an excuse there no matter what the actual text says," says David Rodier of American University in Washington, D.C., who is an expert on the world's religions

Christians have killed in the name of God, as have Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, and others.

But many Islamic scholars say such terrorists are not only violating the spirit of the Koran, but the letter of it as well.

"You do not kill innocent people, you do not cheat, you do not lie, you do not destroy any property of other human beings," says Imam Abdullah Khouj, an Islamic scholar and director of the Islamic Center, in Washington, D.C.

Islamic scholars interviewed by the TV news show National Geographic Today agreed that terrorists such as Usama bin Laden and his supporters are fanatics using Islam to further their own worldly causes.

For most Muslims, the callous and indiscriminate taking of human life violates Allah's wishes. It defies the Koran's central message and undermines the peace that Islam promises to deliver to all people.

And if you wish to argue that the Qu'ran is not peaceful, then you must also argue that the Bible is not peaceful, as both, if quoted out of context, sound like their asking people to do horrible things.
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I mean the indigenous British, aka the whites. Call me racist if you want, but it's a fact that the indigenous population of this country are the whites.

They're the Welsh, Cornish, Picts and Scots. Most of us will not be indigenous.
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Christianity's history is a lot cleaner than the history of Islam!

Do some research... :roll:

 

[yorkie]

I mean the indigenous British, aka the whites. Call me racist if you want, but it's a fact that the indigenous population of this country are the whites.

Who are the indigenous population of this country? The ancient Britons presumably? Don't go to York then!

Hardly as bad as what these Muslims want to happen to Britain and non-muslims.

Are you judging who is as bad as who now? Any particular reason for this, and can you present your methodology?

Christianity's history is a lot cleaner than the history of Islam!

Yeah, like witch hunts, crusades, etc...

Christians invaded the indigenous population of Britain, and now you are defending them! Classic! Or do you just pick a random moment in history and decide that the people who were "indigenous" at that time are what counts?

The rest of your post I will ignore as drivel.

 

[Patrick]

ralphchadkirk, most of those quotes explain nothing, these scholars are hardly going to say what the Koran really teaches, as it isn't going to portray their religion in a good light. The one where it says 'You do not kill innocent people' caught my attention the most though, in the Qur'an it states that non-muslims are not innocent people.

Read this, it backs up pretty much everything I've said:
http://thereligionofpeace.com/

And my argument about the Bible vs the Qur'an violence is explained perfectly here:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Bible-Quran-Violence.htm

And about the argument over the 'indigenous population', I shouldn't have really gone into that, but the fact is that the people who have been here for the longest have been white.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

What a lovely, balanced source you found!

As I said, people can make anything seem extremist if quoted out of context. And, if you're going to use out-of-context quotes as your evidence, then you will have to agree with this:

If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; ... Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
-- Deuteronomy, Chapter 17:2-3,5

Now that's telling Christians to kill those who practice other faiths. Care to comment on that?

 

[ainsworth74]

Whilst I find the burning of a poppy wreath in this context to be offensive in the extreme, I am pleased that we live in a society that allows freedom of speech and expression. When incidents like this occur I am always reminded of a quote that is attributed to Voltaire:

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter.

 

[Patrick]

What a lovely, balanced source you found!

As I said, people can make anything seem extremist if quoted out of context. And, if you're going to use out-of-context quotes as your evidence, then you will have to agree with this:

Now that's telling Christians to kill those who practice other faiths. Care to comment on that?

But the difference between the two religions is that Christians don't look at every verse in the Bible in the context it was written in, whereas a lot of Muslims do.

Also there is nothing in the Bible which suggests that non-Christians are inferior or should be killed. The Bible teaches that God created everyone, and loves them all equally. Nowhere in the Qur'an does it state anything like this.

Compare these quotes and decide which sounds like the more tolerant and loving:

"Allah:"
"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who
disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads
and strike off every fingertip of them."
(Qur'an 8:12)

Muhammad:
"Fight everyone in the way of Allah and
kill those who disbelieve in Allah."
(Ibn Ishaq 992)

Jesus:
"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."
(Matthew 5:14)

Most of the Qur'an is made up of hatred. Look it up yourself.

 

[90019]

Most of the Qur'an is made up of hatred. Look it up yourself.

Have you read both books yourself?

 

[Patrick]

Have you read both books yourself?

I've read some of both books, but to be honest it doesn't take hours of reading to see that Islam is not a peaceful religion.

 

[90019]

I've read some of both books, but to be honest it doesn't take hours of reading to see that Islam is not a peaceful religion.

And you believe Christianity is?

 

[yorkie]

Read this, it backs up pretty much everything I've said:
http://thereligionofpeace.com/

That's a hate site. I'm not going to read it.

Can you please define the indigenous people of Britain? If you cannot supply a definition, then I will assume that your references to it are meaningless and that your argument has no substance. If you can supply a definition, I will be very interested to read it.
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But the difference between the two religions is that Christians don't look at every verse in the Bible in the context it was written in, whereas a lot of Muslims do.

What percentage, roughly, do this? And can you tell me more about your 'context' argument?

Also there is nothing in the Bible which suggests that non-Christians are inferior or should be killed.

No, it just says we're going to hell for the rest of eternity. One may suggest you'd be better off ceasing to exist than suffer that? I'd appreciate your thoughts on that matter.

Compare these quotes and decide which sounds like the more tolerant and loving:

Do those quotes sum up the entire religions? any particular reason for choosing those quotes and nothing else? Presumably the context is also irrelevant as you don't look at context, right?

As for tolerance, you don't sound too tolerant yourself? Can you give me a list of things you would not tolerate and would deport people for? I am sure it would make 'interesting' reading.

Given that you would deport people for burning poppies, what would you do for violent crimes? Where would you deport people to, and how would you determine who would be deported where?

What religion were indigenous British people (by your definition), out of interest?

 

[Patrick]

And you believe Christianity is?

Well it's certainly more peaceful than Islam. You don't see Christianity referring to non-believers as 'vile animals' and that they should all be exterminated do you?
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Yorkie, I'm not debating with you after that childish private message you sent me. You're not worth my time.

 

[90019]

Well it's certainly more peaceful than Islam. You don't see Christianity referring to non-believers as 'vile animals' and that they should all be exterminated do you?

Some of the fundamentalist ones, yes.
Same as Islam, oddly enough.

 

[Patrick]

Some of the fundamentalist ones, yes.
Same as Islam, oddly enough.

I'm talking about the teachings in the holy books of each religion. Nowhere in the Bible does it suggest that non-Christians should be killed, whereas in the Qur'an quite a large amount of it is about this issue.

 

[90019]

I'm talking about the teachings in the holy books of each religion. Nowhere in the Bible does it suggest that non-Christians should be killed, whereas in the Qur'an quite a large amount of it is about this issue.

If you've not read the whole of both books, how can you know this?

 

[yorkie]

Nowhere in the Bible does it suggest that non-Christians should be killed,

So it's okay for non-Christians to be kept in a permanent state of pain as long as they're not put out of their misery, right?

 

[deltic1989]

Lord give me strength, how many times have I heard this effing argument. The fact of the matter is that you can go anywere, observe any religon you want, and you will always get a small pocket of idiots. For the people that think cristianity is entirely peaceful, i'll destroy that argument easily, The Crusades, where British Christians when off to the middle east and started killing everything that moved especially muslims, and has evryone forgotten that the IRA were catholic. Also Islam has its wallys (my best mate was killed by them) but they only account for a small portion of the overall muslim population. I've been to the Middle East and have generally found the locals to be nice people. this argument seems to have turned into overt racism from some quaters (naming no names three nine zero come in somewhere) something which i dispise with a passion, and im shocked to see that far from realising this and locking the thread up and throwing away the key, a mod is actively taking part in a wholly misguided and totally ill-informed disscussion. I'm sorry if my comments on this matter offend people, but after all thankfully we live in a free country where i'm allowed to say what I like, and I speak as i find and what i find stinks to high hell.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I'm talking about the teachings in the holy books of each religion. Nowhere in the Bible does it suggest that non-Christians should be killed, whereas in the Qur'an quite a large amount of it is about this issue.

Did you not see the quote I posted? If that verse is just read on it's own then, yes, it does!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Whilst I find the burning of a poppy wreath in this context to be offensive in the extreme, I am pleased that we live in a society that allows freedom of speech and expression. When incidents like this occur I am always reminded of a quote that is attributed to Voltaire:



Pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter.

Well said Ainsworth!

 

[Ferret]

What a lot of froth! Yeah, the sentence was perhaps a tad lenient, given that the rabble rousing twonk Choudhury is going to pay the fines - perhaps a bit of community service would've been more appropriate - but like many have said, all religions have these loons. I wouldn't call for anyone to be deported - I just dismiss them as the idiots they clearly are - anyone has the option to leave a country they do not like and set up elsewhere. If the UK is so bad, then please don't let me stand in your way! Alternatively, if you do wish to stay and behave in an offensive manner such as these people did, don't be entirely surprised to find your picture all over the paper, and lots of people openly deriding you in public and on the internet. It's what you deserve.

 

[strange6]

What a lot of froth! Yeah, the sentence was perhaps a tad lenient, given that the rabble rousing twonk Choudhury is going to pay the fines - perhaps a bit of community service would've been more appropriate - but like many have said, all religions have these loons. I wouldn't call for anyone to be deported - I just dismiss them as the idiots they clearly are - anyone has the option to leave a country they do not like and set up elsewhere. If the UK is so bad, then please don't let me stand in your way! Alternatively, if you do wish to stay and behave in an offensive manner such as these people did, don't be entirely surprised to find your picture all over the paper, and lots of people openly deriding you in public and on the internet. It's what you deserve.

Couldn't agree more with this. well said, that man!