Selective Door Opening (SDO)

222001 · 22 Dec 2008

After seeing this picture on fotopic it got me thinking into how SDO works / is controlled.
The picture is of the cab desk of 222007 when it was first introduced as a 9 car Meridian.
There is like a keypad embeded in the desk that goes from 1 to 13 with a blue button as the last button. The letters SDO is above this. So how is it controlled? I always thought SDO was controlled by the on board staff. And what does that blue button do?

RailUK Forums

1D53 · 22 Dec 2008

222001 said:
After seeing this picture on fotopic it got me thinking into how SDO works / is controlled.
The picture is of the cab desk of 222007 when it was first introduced as a 9 car Meridian.
There is like a keypad embeded in the desk that goes from 1 to 13 with a blue button as the last button. The letters SDO is above this. So how is it controlled? I always thought SDO was controlled by the on board staff. And what does that blue button do?

Could be all doors (ie 14)? They were designed to work in pair at most so that could be 7+7 or 9+5? Not sure!

222001 · 22 Dec 2008

JsT said:
Could be all doors (ie 14)? They were designed to work in pair at most so that could be 7+7 or 9+5? Not sure!

Hmm good point! I presume there are 13 as by design the Meridians were either 9 car or 4 car. 9+4 = 13. I did hear once that a 4 car was recued by a 9 car.

TEW · 22 Dec 2008

I don't know much about SDO but the system fitted to FGW HSTs is very simple. Insteas of just turning the key to activate the central door locking panel there are a number of settings:
All doors, obvious.
Doors behind, will operate the door by the control panel and all behind that point.
Doors infront, will operate the door by the control panel and all infront of that panel.
SDO Hold. A setting where the key can be removed without losing the SDO setting.
Because of those settings the system is fairly limites and you actually have to go to a panel to operate it and you cant have a section of the train in the middle.

222001 · 22 Dec 2008

Conner said:
I don't know much about SDO but the system fitted to FGW HSTs is very simple. Insteas of just turning the key to activate the central door locking panel there are a number of settings:
All doors, obvious.
Doors behind, will operate the door by the control panel and all behind that point.
Doors infront, will operate the door by the control panel and all infront of that panel.
SDO Hold. A setting where the key can be removed without losing the SDO setting.
Because of those settings the system is fairly limites and you actually have to go to a panel to operate it and you cant have a section of the train in the middle.

Thanks for that info. I thought it was something like that on the Meridians until I seen that picture. What kind of system do the 170s (that have SDO) use?

TEW · 22 Dec 2008

222001 said:
Thanks for that info. I thought it was something like that on the Meridians until I seen that picture. What kind of system do the 170s (that have SDO) use?

Not sure but I know 159s have a very simple system which allows one unit only to be unlocked, might be similar to that.

devon_metro · 23 Dec 2008

SDO hold means you must return to that panel to re-lock the doors I believe.

1D53 · 23 Dec 2008

Liam said:
SDO hold means you must return to that panel to re-lock the doors I believe.

I thought it meant you could key out of the panel and key in elsewhere to close the doors without all the doors opening themselves when you key out. To be used when providing assistance or loading bikes etc instead of walking the length of the train again.

devon_metro · 23 Dec 2008

You'd think that although it is printed on FGW panels that when using SDO hold you must return to that panel to lock the train.

Coxster · 23 Dec 2008

On Desiros you (put simply) go to the cab behind the end of the length of train you wish to open and flick the SDO switch.

o You have a 10 coach 444. You can only open the front unit (5 coaches). You go to the front of the rear unit (6th coach) and flick the SDO in that cab.

o You have a 8/12 coach 450. You can only open the front 4/8 coaches (front 1 or 2 unit(s)). You go to the front of the unit(s) you wish to remain closed (5th/9th coach) and flick the SDO in that cab.

Not covered anything other than Desiros yet so can't help with any more than that I'm afraid. Don't quote me on this but I would assume Class 458s are the same (if they have SDO) - they can only be worked from the cabs!

LDO (Local Door Operation) on SWT Desiros is simply allowing passengers to use a local door to board/alight from a train. Where LDO is required, the second door from the very front of the train is used. You can see this method in use at locations such as Shawford, for which you are advised to travel in the front coach of the train.

MCR247 · 23 Dec 2008

Coxster said:
LDO (Local Door Operation) on SWT Desiros is simply allowing passengers to use a local door to board/alight from a train. Where LDO is required, the second door from the very front of the train is used. You can see this method in use at locations such as Shawford, for which you are advised to travel in the front coach of the train.

170s have LDO I think because I was on a CT (then) BHM-NTTM late night service. Then guard probably couldnt be arsed to check tickets this late at night (2315 i think) so he just opened 1 set of doors and then checked tickets on the way on!

Coxster · 23 Dec 2008

MCR247 said:
170s have LDO I think because I was on a CT (then) BHM-NTTM late night service. Then guard probably couldnt be arsed to check tickets this late at night (2315 i think) so he just opened 1 set of doors and then checked tickets on the way on!

He must surely have opened all doors otherwise people at other door positions wouldn't be able to leave the train. You may be getting confused with guards opening any door as their local door to enable them to alight from the train in order to ensure all carriages are safely on the platform, then returning to their panel to open the rest of the train's doors. I was referring to Local Door Operation (LDO) at short platforms, rather than guards just making a door their local door to enable the above actions to take place.

If a passenger trying to leave the train couldn't do so because the guard was just opening one set of doors - and they complained - then a download could be done and that'd show up which doors were (or were not) released. Therefore if the guard was doing as you describe, and a passenger complained, then the guard could end up in quite a bit of trouble...

MCR247 · 24 Dec 2008

Coxster said:
He must surely have opened all doors otherwise people at other door positions wouldn't be able to leave the train. You may be getting confused with guards opening any door as their local door to enable them to alight from the train in order to ensure all carriages are safely on the platform, then returning to their panel to open the rest of the train's doors. I was referring to Local Door Operation (LDO) at short platforms, rather than guards just making a door their local door to enable the above actions to take place.

If a passenger trying to leave the train couldn't do so because the guard was just opening one set of doors - and they complained - then a download could be done and that'd show up which doors were (or were not) released. Therefore if the guard was doing as you describe, and a passenger complained, then the guard could end up in quite a bit of trouble...

No I mean the set came in empty and then he only let us on through one door to check tickets. This was only at New St

Juniper Driver · 25 Dec 2008

Liam said:
SDO hold means you must return to that panel to re-lock the doors I believe.

SDO on a Desiro means that of an 8 coach train only the front four can be opened if the panel is operated from the driving cab on the rear unit in the middle of the train.(and the green SDO switch operated)

Iselworth/Sunnymeads down and up platforms being a prime example where this is used.

Bob M · 26 Dec 2008

I believe the trains used by Southern (sorry, can't remember the code number) are more flexible, and can open any number of doors, and that it is controlled by the the GPS knowing which station the train is at.

When first introduced, they had problems when the GPS aerial was under a bridge or something, and the train would not open any doors. Fixed, I believe by a second aerial at the other end.

1D53 · 26 Dec 2008

Bob M said:
When first introduced, they had problems when the GPS aerial was under a bridge or something, and the train would not open any doors. Fixed, I believe by a second aerial at the other end.

That was the 377's at London Victoria, the station roof blocked the signal.

Juniper Driver · 26 Dec 2008

Bob M said:
I believe the trains used by Southern (sorry, can't remember the code number) are more flexible, and can open any number of doors, and that it is controlled by the the GPS knowing which station the train is at.

When first introduced, they had problems when the GPS aerial was under a bridge or something, and the train would not open any doors. Fixed, I believe by a second aerial at the other end.

Hmmm yes that's very clever.

Pumbaa · 30 Dec 2008

1 is the front carriage, going backwards etc. Pushing in the button for each respective car lights up, and indicates SDO is active for that car. Holding down 1 whilst pressing 4 will activate 1, 2,3 and 4. Blue (clears the selection? Or releases them? I wasn't listening properly)... TM must release doors from within a car selected for SDO. The TM locking the doors having released them also clears the SDO selection. Selection is keyed in by TM on approach to stations requiring SDO.

Source: Daniel (ex MML)(now Southern)

There ya go! Bombardier have it got it sorted then, Siemens not so... GPS bits of kit for SDO was fitted to some Meridians a while back, but I don't know what happened to those.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Edit: Do Voyagers have SDO? Surely they'd need them when operating in multiple?

mbonwick · 30 Dec 2008

I don't think they do; I think they just lock a set out of use.

I'm probably wrong though.

TEW · 30 Dec 2008

makstaylor said:
Do Voyagers have SDO? Surely they'd need them when operating in multiple?

Don't think so as any more than 8 carriages cant operate in Cornwall without one being locked due to the short platforms.

ffcphone · 23 Jan 2009

Last year sometime I found myself in the wheelchair area of a 185 at Preston station, doors were not released, looked down the train and through the external windows and noticed passengers boarding and disembarking further down but our doors were still locked and not available to open. Considerable banging on the door windows, waving etc finally caught the guard's attention who then returned to his cab and released our door for user opening.

Never had this problem again.

F

222001 · 23 Jan 2009

ffcphone said:
Last year sometime I found myself in the wheelchair area of a 185 at Preston station, doors were not released, looked down the train and through the external windows and noticed passengers boarding and disembarking further down but our doors were still locked and not available to open. Considerable banging on the door windows, waving etc finally caught the guard's attention who then returned to his cab and released our door for user opening.

Never had this problem again.

F

That happened to me once but I was getting on a 222. In the end I just gave up and walked to the next carraige. They nust have selected the wrong number of doors to open instead of all of them.
Another strange thing that happened about a year ago was when I was on a Meridian wanting to get off. The train pulled in at the station and the door made the beeping noises to say that it has been released and the light came on around the button you press to open the door. No matter how much I pressed it the door just do not open, so again I moved to the next carraige, good job the train was stopping there for a couple of minutes!

Ferret · 23 Jan 2009

Liam said:
You'd think that although it is printed on FGW panels that when using SDO hold you must return to that panel to lock the train.

Same on XCs HSTs, though about the only location I could imagine using it is Totnes on the up side - can only get 7 on there.

222001 · 23 Jan 2009

Do EMT HSTs have SDO? I don't think they do. If they don't then how do they stop passengers falling out of the doors at stations like Loughborough :lol:

.

Ferret · 23 Jan 2009

They tell people to walk forward and use the front x amount of coaches...

jopsuk · 23 Jan 2009

Ferret said:
They tell people to walk forward and use the front x amount of coaches...

This, often combined with trackside signs set at door window level warning not to alight. There's nothing physical though.

222001 · 23 Jan 2009

jopsuk said:
This, often combined with trackside signs set at door window level warning not to alight. There's nothing physical though.

Still, It wouldn't suprise me if anyone did open the door and try to get out!

devon_metro · 23 Jan 2009

Ferret said:
Same on XCs HSTs, though about the only location I could imagine using it is Totnes on the up side - can only get 7 on there.

Yep, i've alighted through A on FGW before though, naughty Train Manager :lol:

laseandre · 23 Jan 2009

jopsuk said:
This, often combined with trackside signs set at door window level warning not to alight. There's nothing physical though.

They have them at Dunkeld and Birnam (might be others) on the Highland Mainline, for when the Highland Chieftain comes.

devon_metro · 23 Jan 2009

jopsuk said:
This, often combined with trackside signs set at door window level warning not to alight. There's nothing physical though.

A bolt securing the door not physical enough??

Selective Door Opening (SDO)

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