See it. Say it. Sorted.

[Horizon22]

We always have done! Attacks, prejudice and antisocial behaviour are no more common now than they were 20 or 30 years ago yet back then the idea you'd have to sit through five minutes of warnings and instructions every time your train called at a station would have been laughable.

That is considerable hyperbole.

On many routes you don't even get that sort of announcement at a stop, let alone something that long. If it bothers you so much, I suggest buying some noise-cancelling headphones.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I think that the Captain may not have noticed that mobile phones, texting and so on have become far more ubiquitous in the past 20-30 years.

I can remember being on a train where a football thug was slashing the seats but there was no way of reporting it decades ago. It is possible now. Plus people are thankfully far more alert to unacceptable abuse, vulnerable individuals and so on to realise that ‘something ought to be done’.

Means+motivation.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

That is considerable hyperbole.

On the "unprofessional onboard announcements thread @Mugby posted this;

One little thing I find myself doing of late when travelling is seeing how far my train actually gets before the announcements cease.
Heading North from Derby I've known a train be past Duffield before the waffle ends.
Likewise, heading South from Sheffield, some trains can be almost at Dore before the loud clunk of the handset being slammed back into it's clip!

I tried it myself on a journey from Birmingham Moor Street to Warwick yesterday. We were just pulling into Solihull before the combination of automatic and manual announcements eventually finished. around seven minutes after they'd started.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jul 2025 ==

If it bothers you so much, I suggest buying some noise-cancelling headphones.

I usually do wear headphones but the point is that we wouldn't need to if the announcements were cut back just to things passengers actually need to know!

 

[Horizon22]

On the "unprofessional onboard announcements thread @Mugby posted this;


I tried it myself on a journey from Birmingham Moor Street to Warwick yesterday. We were just pulling into Solihull before the combination of automatic and manual announcements eventually finished. around seven minutes after they'd started.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jul 2025 ==


I usually do wear headphones but the point is that we wouldn't need to if the announcements were cut back just to things passengers actually need to know!

The fact that the user refers to a handset suggests this is a manual announcement from the guard / train manager, as opposed to a auto security announcement.

So it probably included other things like luggage, tickets, on board facilities etc.

 

[Lewisham2221]

I usually do wear headphones but the point is that we wouldn't need to if the announcements were cut back just to things passengers actually need to know!

What do the passengers actually need to know? Who gets to make that decision? What if some passengers need to know more/less/different information than others?

 

[FrontSideBus]

Where the train is going and what is the next stop?

 

[styles]

The announcement takes 12 seconds.

I'm all for ditching announcements about what sandwiches are available in the buffet cart or what end of the train 1st and standard class are, etc.

But I hardly think 12 seconds to inform infrequent travellers how to contact the transport police if something is wrong is really the long announcement problem, and it conveys an important (non-authoritarian) message.

On the extreme example earlier of a journey from Sutton to Edinburgh where the announcements were made 15 times, that's a total of 3 minutes on a journey of nearly 6 hours.

 

[Dr Hoo]

What do the passengers actually need to know? Who gets to make that decision? What if some passengers need to know more/less/different information than others?

Clearly there has to be a degree of ‘lowest common denominator’. This is probably more important than it’s ever been given the fall in the number of regular commuters and business travellers (who could travel on ‘auto pilot’) and the rise in the number of new/ occasional leisure users.

Beyond the destination and next stop there is often a load of ‘helpful’ stuff about things like Oyster/ contactless validity, where the toilets are, any refreshment service, short platforms, not putting luggage on seats if the train is busy, portion working, connections, upgrade availability, etc. even before any safety information, keeping wheelchair areas free, reference to late running, Delay Repay and so on. Obviously not everything is applicable to every train or after every wayside call.

How often do we read of complaints and disputes about “nobody told me…”? This would seem to indicate that there’s a good appetite or need for more rather than less.

 

[Horizon22]

Clearly there has to be a degree of ‘lowest common denominator’. This is probably more important than it’s ever been given the fall in the number of regular commuters and business travellers (who could travel on ‘auto pilot’) and the rise in the number of new/ occasional leisure users.

Beyond the destination and next stop there is often a load of ‘helpful’ stuff about things like Oyster/ contactless validity, where the toilets are, any refreshment service, short platforms, not putting luggage on seats if the train is busy, portion working, connections, upgrade availability, etc. even before any safety information, keeping wheelchair areas free, reference to late running, Delay Repay and so on. Obviously not everything is applicable to every train or after every wayside call.

How often do we read of complaints and disputes about “nobody told me…”? This would seem to indicate that there’s a good appetite or need for more rather than less.

Schrodinger's announcements; there are too many, but we also need more

I also maintain that this is one area that the average forum user's viewpoint diverges quite far from the average passenger's viewpoint.

 

[styles]

Schrodinger's announcements; there are too many, but we also need more

I also maintain that this is one area that the average forum user's viewpoint diverges quite far from the average passenger's viewpoint.

Agree in general about on-board announcements, though at some stations (e.g. Derby) the announcements really do seem to never stop, and I suspect it winds a few 'normies' up.

The DfT felt it worthy of a review after all: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...uncements-binned-in-bonfire-of-the-banalities

 

[Lewisham2221]

Clearly there has to be a degree of ‘lowest common denominator’. This is probably more important than it’s ever been given the fall in the number of regular commuters and business travellers (who could travel on ‘auto pilot’) and the rise in the number of new/ occasional leisure users.

Beyond the destination and next stop there is often a load of ‘helpful’ stuff about things like Oyster/ contactless validity, where the toilets are, any refreshment service, short platforms, not putting luggage on seats if the train is busy, portion working, connections, upgrade availability, etc. even before any safety information, keeping wheelchair areas free, reference to late running, Delay Repay and so on. Obviously not everything is applicable to every train or after every wayside call.

How often do we read of complaints and disputes about “nobody told me…”? This would seem to indicate that there’s a good appetite or need for more rather than less.

Exactly. A regular commuter from, say, Blythe Bridge to Derby would arguably need no announcements whatsoever unless the service was disrupted in some way. They know where the train is going, they know where it calls at along the way, they already know about 61016 etc etc etc.

On the other hand, an infrequent traveller or one making a less familiar journey will likely need, and appreciate, more information.

 

[Cell2025]

That is considerable hyperbole.

On many routes you don't even get that sort of announcement at a stop, let alone something that long. If it bothers you so much, I suggest buying some noise-cancelling headphones.

Quite true. I do think that things like this become bigger in some people's minds than they actually are, but that's the thing about 'messaging'. It works differently for different people.

For me I don't notice it any more than a station announcement and it doesn't bother me. I hope I never have to use it, but it being there makes me feel no more or less safe on the trains. But I'm a white middle aged male. We all know that nothing bad happens to people like me

 

[saismee]

The announcement takes 12 seconds.

I'm all for ditching announcements about what sandwiches are available in the buffet cart or what end of the train 1st and standard class are, etc.

But I hardly think 12 seconds to inform infrequent travellers how to contact the transport police if something is wrong is really the long announcement problem, and it conveys an important (non-authoritarian) message.

On the extreme example earlier of a journey from Sutton to Edinburgh where the announcements were made 15 times, that's a total of 3 minutes on a journey of nearly 6 hours.

I actually somewhat disagree. The cafe bar info isn't actually that bad and could be found useful for a lot of people. I do take issue with how terrible the microphones are on the 745s, though.

Clearly there has to be a degree of ‘lowest common denominator’. This is probably more important than it’s ever been given the fall in the number of regular commuters and business travellers (who could travel on ‘auto pilot’) and the rise in the number of new/ occasional leisure users.

Beyond the destination and next stop there is often a load of ‘helpful’ stuff about things like Oyster/ contactless validity, where the toilets are, any refreshment service, short platforms, not putting luggage on seats if the train is busy, portion working, connections, upgrade availability, etc. even before any safety information, keeping wheelchair areas free, reference to late running, Delay Repay and so on. Obviously not everything is applicable to every train or after every wayside call.

How often do we read of complaints and disputes about “nobody told me…”? This would seem to indicate that there’s a good appetite or need for more rather than less.

Oyster announcements can absolutely be helpful on services that start in an Oyster/contactless zone but then move out of it. Stansted Express comes to mind but it probably won't stop people trying to use contactless.

 

[trainophile]

The guard on my Northern at Scarborough just substituted “if you see anything that causes concern“ rather than “doesn’t look right”, which I found much less annoying.

When he got to the end he sounded as if he didn’t want to add on the SSS bit, but was probably instructed that it has to be said.

 

[TimSpencer]

Even if those proclamations were true, it wouldn't show that the announcement does any harm -

The announcement does plenty of harm. Being subjected to the same message over and over again can cause psychological distress. Its true that some people have a great ability to filter out unwanted noise, others less so. To the latter it's like that advert that gets played over and over so many times until you just have to turn the over or mute the ad breaks for fear of hearing it for the millionth time. The main difference is that in the case of rail travel, we can't turn it off and there's nowhere to escape from it. We can't just leave the room for a couple of minutes as the exit doors are sealed, the windows sealed shut (so we can't use wind rush to mask it) and the same advert is being simultaneously played in every carriage, just as it has been frequently on repeat seven years or more.

 

[styles]

The announcement does plenty of harm. Being subjected to the same message over and over again can cause psychological distress.

I'm afraid I can't take this suggestion seriously. Psychological distress hearing a 12 second announcement about how to contact the police, really.

 

[Siemens Trains]

I'm afraid I can't take this suggestion seriously. Psychological distress hearing a 12 second announcement about how to contact the police, really.

I can understand the frustration of people who may find repeated announcements trigger a sensory overload situation. Perhaps if this becomes overwhelming it's difficult for them to use empathy to understand that each announcement may be helpful to others, or simply accept it's a normal feature of train travel.
Not sure if noise cancelling headphones would benefit these people. Failing that, maybe a quiet coach could be allocated, where routine announcements are inhibited.

 

[styles]

I can understand the frustration of people who may find repeated announcements trigger a sensory overload situation. Perhaps if this becomes overwhelming it's difficult for them to use empathy to understand that each announcement may be helpful to others, or simply accept it's a normal feature of train travel.
Not sure if noise cancelling headphones would benefit these people. Failing that, maybe a quiet coach could be allocated, where routine announcements are inhibited.

I can accept that in some absolutely exceptional circumstances this announcement may cause 'psychological distress'. However it is not reasonable nor desirable to eliminate all announcements on this basis, and such travellers are likely to have issues with the announcements which last much longer than 12 seconds as this one does.

If we were to extend this we'd also have to remove all posters referencing 61016 due to visual sensory overload, etc.

 

[TimSpencer]

I'm afraid I can't take this suggestion seriously. Psychological distress hearing a 12 second announcement about how to contact the police, really.

 

[styles]

If it were just a 12 second announcement I would agree. But it's a 12 second announcement followed not long after by the same 12 second announcement. And again and again and again.
If I tell you something, that is information. If I tell you again, I repeat myself. If I tell you a third time, I'm getting annoying. A sixth and I'm being more than just annoying.
Would you find me annoying if I kept repeating myself?
Would it annoy you if I kept on repeating myself?
Would you find me annoying if I kept repeating myself?
Would you think me unreasonable if I kept repeating myself?
Suppose I kept on saying the same thing to you, would you find me annoying?

Now imagine being stuck in a lift with me.
Or on a train.

Best get rid of all announcements if we're trying to prevent that problem.

And all posters for the visual psychological distress also.

 

[Bikeman78]

It's trying to inform passengers that there is a discreet way of contacting the British Transport Police.

It manages to do this very well given the number of engagements which comes through 61016.

It doesn't need to be switched off. I mean potentially if we completely eliminated all crime on public transport, but that's never going to happen.

Baffling to hear it described not just as annoying but incredibly annoying.

Are you genuinely incredibly annoyed by it? Because I'd suggest talking therapy if so.

Frankly yes. When I arrive at the station, I rarely make it to the bike rack before it goes off. It must be at least every 10 minutes. Then multiple times on the train too. As you say, almost everyone knows the number so we don't need it anymore. Certainly not at the same frequency. Perhaps it could be reduced to once per hour, e.g. every hour on the hour, or just after if there happens to be another service announcement at that moment. Do TfL buses have it? We don't in Cardiff.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Aug 2025 ==

Which part did I lose you on?

Your post - which I quoted - very much appeared to be suggesting that somebody who was hiding in a cupboard, fearing for their life, should spend precious time using their smartphone to perform a web search for "ways to discreetly contact the police in an emergency" (or similar) rather than using that same smartphone to quickly send a text message to the police using a number that they already know. You added something about people having a non-smartphone, which was totally irrelevant.

It's not really the job of the railway to tell people how to contact the Police. What does the hypothetical person hiding in a cupboard do if they don't travel by train, and therefore never heard the SSS message? Should we have it on buses too? Just as likely to see people behaving badly there. A TV campaign would be better. More people would see it. Plus people that are fed up with it can go and get a drink.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Aug 2025 ==

I'm a person who does get annoyed (unreasonably so according to my wife) by nanny state etc.

Although I'm aware of people who find it annoying I've never 'met' one outside a group that includes train/infrastructure enthusiasts.

Almost all my non enthusiast friends drive everywhere so they will never hear it.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

I can accept that in some absolutely exceptional circumstances this announcement may cause 'psychological distress'. However it is not reasonable nor desirable to eliminate all announcements on this basis, and such travellers are likely to have issues with the announcements which last much longer than 12 seconds as this one does.

If we were to extend this we'd also have to remove all posters referencing 61016 due to visual sensory overload, etc.

I'm not sure why you're so obsessed with the length of the "See it say it sort it" announcement. The issue isn't the length, it's the fact that it's repeated far too often and its irrelevance.

Have you come across the term misophonia, the idea that certain sounds are incredibly irritating to people and trigger a negative emotional reaction? I'd suggest that this announcement is a classic example of that.
Think of the most annoying, unpleasant sound you know and imagine it repeated for 12 seconds over and over again before and after every station stop on a long rail trip. How would you feel at the end of your journey? That's probably why it's automated, were it a real person repeating it you'd probably want to throttle them!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Aug 2025 ==

Best get rid of all announcements if we're trying to prevent that problem.

And all posters for the visual psychological distress also.

It really isn't a binary choice between non stop announcements and no announcements at all. The key is for rail companies to only tell their passengers what they need to know and nothing they don't. As "See it say it sort it" falls into the latter category it really needs to be scrapped

 

[Dr Hoo]

Have you come across the term misophonia, the idea that certain sounds are incredibly irritating to people and trigger a negative emotional reaction? I'd suggest that this announcement is a classic example of that.
Think of the most annoying, unpleasant sound you know and imagine it repeated for 12 seconds over and over again before and after every station stop on a long rail trip. How would you feel at the end of your journey?

Every day is a school day on RailUK Forums.

Do you have any other repetitive announcements (besides “See it…”) that trigger a similar response? I realise that everybody is different but do fellow contributors to this thread have any other examples such as Mind the Gap or Stand Behind the Yellow Line or even Welcome Aboard…?

 

[Lewisham2221]

Out of interest, which TOC/rolling stock is this particular announcement being played so repetitively as to be extremely annoying/psychologically distressing?

 

[Pyewipecarshed]

It really isn't a binary choice between non stop announcements and no announcements at all. The key is for rail companies to only tell their passengers what they need to know and nothing they don't. As "See it say it sort it" falls into the latter category it really needs to be scrapped

The problem with this statement is that what passengers "need to know" varies from person to person. So an announcement that someone finds banal and irritating might be useful and informative to someone else.

 

[thelongestroad]

There's a coffee shop outside Manchester Oxford Road with a sign saying "see it, say it, slurp it" which is the best use of it IMO.

 

[styles]

There's a coffee shop outside Manchester Oxford Road with a sign saying "see it, say it, slurp it" which is the best use of it IMO.

Left Luggage should perhaps adopt, "See it. Say it. Ported."

 

[DLyle44004]

The way forward is taking inspiration from airlines. Get the guard to mime out the safety announcement like a stewardess.

 

[apbj]

Always thinking up new ways to troll commuters, the Elizabeth line now plays prerecorded announcements every few minutes at my local station (Ealing Broadway) saying: "There are usually plenty of seats on this service." Besides being totally unnecessary, it's also untrue for most of the eastbound services I use.

And this morning it was followed by another announcement that services were being delayed by "overcrowding"!

And See It Say It Sorted is useless in my part of London - you won't get a BTP response to most issues. Last time I dialled 999 from a train the police call centre was so busy I was put on hold.

Time to bin ALL of these idiotic announcements.

 

[Dr Hoo]

And See It Say It Sorted is useless in my part of London - you won't get a BTP response to most issues. Last time I dialled 999 from a train the police call centre was so busy I was put on hold.

Whilst is might still be appropriate to call 999 from a moving train in the case of a critical emergency, the general idea is that 61016 enables text messages to be seen and triaged quickly. Also it is discreet. Not a good idea to be bellowing into a mobile phone (to speak above the ambient noise) that there is a gang of thugs with machetes threatening fellow passengers.