Scottish force to police railways

[PaxVobiscum]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-31808646

Police Scotland will take over railway policing when the function is devolved, Scotland's justice secretary has decided.

The move means the British Transport Police (BTP) will no longer operate as a separate force in Scotland.

The Smith Commission on further devolution recommended that policing the rail network should be devolved.

The BTP wanted to continue providing the service, with oversight by Holyrood instead of Westminster.

But Justice Secretary Michael Matheson has decided against that, and instead wants the force's Scottish operations and more than 200 officers integrated into Police Scotland, possibly by the end of 2016.

'Distinctive approach'

In an interview with the PoliceOracle.com website, Mr Matheson said railway policing north of the border needed to become part of Police Scotland because of the country's "distinctive approach to policing".

Mr Matheson added: "It will become part of Police Scotland. We will set out the model and direction of travel we intend to take in this area.

"The approach we are going to take is that we are going to take in [BTP] Scotland through Police Scotland so that their approach will be a distinctive Scottish approach. We are not going to be in a situation where it will remain as part of a UK-wide force.

"We've just gone from having eight police forces in Scotland and I'm convinced that taking this area of policy forward we can maintain within Police Scotland the specialism and the distinctive nature of policing our rail network."

The former UK minister for the British Transport Police, Tom Harris, said a "hasty decision" could jeopardise public safety.

The Scottish Liberal Democrat leader, Willie Rennie, said retaining a cross-border force was "worthy of consideration".

The British Transport Police and its governing body will meet on Tuesday morning to consider their response to the Scottish government's plan.

Is this a good idea?
Pros?
Cons?

 

[kermit]

I'm not sure the British Transport Police made much sense in the 21st Century anyway.

But the Scottish experience of Police Scotland has in general been of a scary lack of accountability compared with the 8 regional forces that preceded it.

As an aside, I suspect relatively few people in England and Wales understand how significantly different the Scottish legal system is to that which they naively imagine to be UK-wide.

 

[dysonsphere]

Seems daft BTP have much railway based knowledge which normal police will not have all you would achive would be a sub division of transport polive. IE reinventing the wheel

 

[185]

I was assuming this was going to be approved. Would assume they will operate as a division of PS as a railway specific division.

 

[najaB]

Would assume they will operate as a division of PS as a railway specific division.

That's the only thing that makes sense. But Police Scotland hasn't exactly shown themselves to be the most sensible to date...

 

[edwin_m]

With the thinly spread nature of the rail network in Scotland the BTP response time to some places must sometimes be measured in hours. I was reading a few years back about a trial of level crossing cameras in the Highlands at a time when only wet film cameras were acceptable for evidential purposes. Scottish law required (at that time at least) a police officer to secure the chain of evidence and a second one to act as a witness, so two BTP had to spend a day driving from Edinburgh to somewhere north of Inverness every time the film needed changing.

 

[WatcherZero]

In the past when this has been considered for England its generally been rejected for the simple reason it costs extra time and money to train officers in railway procedure, if they go into the general force then they may not be available when required pulled away to other duties and a wider number would have to be trained to compensate for them no longer being dedicated.

Interesting question will be what will happen to the money in Scotland, at the moment the BTP is funded by the TOC's rather than Government so will the Scottish Government be picking up the tab or will they be demanding the TOCs still contribute to general policing? Will the tocs still agree without a ringfence guarantee?

 

[najaB]

...so two BTP had to spend a day driving from Edinburgh to somewhere north of Inverness every time the film needed changing.

One wonders why the Inverness BTP team didn't change the film?

 

[6Z09]

I thought we voted to stay in the UK!!
Although the SNP want more devolution to the "Regions" of the UK when they get it, they are doing the opposite within Scotland making everything "National"
Police,Emegency Service Control rooms etc.

 

[najaB]

I thought we voted to stay in the UK!!
Although the SNP want more devolution to the "Regions" of the UK when they get it, they are doing the opposite within Scotland making everything "National"
Police,Emegency Service Control rooms etc.

Don't forget the Fire Service...

 

[6Z09]

Don't forget the Fire Service...

Aye. and job losses every time as well!! An awful lot of "civilian" staff jobs fell by the wayside in the process.

 

[Failed Unit]

I can see the logic in some areas such as the far north etc, however policing lightly used lines with local force could make sense everywhere. Not sure if you will see such a benefit in places like Edinburgh and Glasgow.

 

[Greenback]

Some people have been calling for the abolition of the BTP for a long time, and will be delighted at this news!

 

[theageofthetra]

What is the relationship like between BTP and the 'normal' police?- are there very different salary levels and benefits?

 

[LowLevel]

Seems a bit daft to me and will sure just be a rebranding exercise. Home Office police I've had turn up to safety incidents during a shortage of BTP have nearly made it worse on several occasions, including trying to walk straight on to an open 110 mph running line in the dark with their black body suits on.

 

[Greenback]

I don't really see how operating under a unified Scottish Police Service will have much effect. As I see it, the BTP in Scotland will simply become a specialist unit that is administered alongside other specialist units. Maybe my view is naive?

 

[cf111]

Police Scotland and Sir Stephen House should be getting no more powers until they can be trusted with the ones they hold at the moment.

 

[WatcherZero]

Suggestions the move is politically motivated because SNP oppose stop and search which BTP were pursuing in Scotland.

 

[najaB]

Suggestions the move is politically motivated because SNP oppose stop and search which BTP were pursuing in Scotland.

I dare say it is ideologically motivated as well since Police Scotland is replacing the British Transport Police. I don't personally see any benefit in making the change, but as long as the railway trained officers are kept on the railway it probably doesn't have a huge downside.

 

[St Rollox]

Think it's all about money.
Not unlike Glasgow having it's own police "hackney" branch that dealt solely with taxis.
That was ditched after a 100 years when the cops wanted a helicopter.
Personally i'd have kept the tartan branch of the railway "polis" with an obvious name change to reflect the changing political state of Scotland.

 

[Chrism20]

Police Scotland and Sir Stephen House should be getting no more powers until they can be trusted with the ones they hold at the moment.

Couldn't agree more, in fact I'd go as far as to say Sir Stephen House should not be in a job following what has gone on over the last couple of months.

Had that been a lower grades officer they would have been out on their ear.

Hopefully backing him will also help bring about the downfall of Ms Sturgeon as well but that's not for here.

As for the BTP having had dealings with both them and the regular police I personally have found the BTP much easier to deal with. If I was Abellio, Virgin EC/WC, TPE, XC or Serco I would be looking for assurances that this would not have a detrimental effect on my operations.

As others have said in places such as the far north, WHL etc there will be response time benefits but in the central belt and Aberdeen etc there should be dedicated teams for the railway and hopefully that will prevail.

As with everything with the Scottish Governent it's wait and tbh nothing would surprise me, knowing that lot they would probably want to put average speed cameras on the highland mainline so that the A9 couldn't complain it was being treated differently.

 

[Monty]

I dare say it is ideologically motivated as well since Police Scotland is replacing the British Transport Police. I don't personally see any benefit in making the change, but as long as the railway trained officers are kept on the railway it probably doesn't have a huge downside.

I think the real issue here is that there is no guarantee that Police Scotland will make provisions to ensure that there are dedicated officers for railway policing. Most counties with dense rail networks have their own dedicated transit police, dare I say it Holyrood thinks it's a simple case of taking over BTP's duties and absorb the officers based in Scotland and use them for other policing duties while getting a share of the BTP's budget? If this goes ahead I can see the Met and Greater Manchester Police wanting a slice of the action too. If it must happen the officers and the funding MUST be ring fenced for railway policing but somehow I don't see it happening.

 

[St Rollox]

Those who think it's a chance of bashing the SNP might well take another look.
The Tory/LibDem Goverment is handing over control.
Blame them if your a unionist.

 

[DarloRich]

I think the real issue here is that there is no guarantee that Police Scotland will make provisions to ensure that there are dedicated officers for railway policing. Most counties with dense rail networks have their own dedicated transit police, dare I say it Holyrood thinks it's a simple case of taking over BTP's duties and absorb the officers based in Scotland and use them for other policing duties while getting a share of the BTP's budget? If this goes ahead I can see the Met and Greater Manchester Police wanting a slice of the action too. If it must happen the officers and the funding MUST be ring fenced for railway policing but somehow I don't see it happening.

Also my view.

I can see benefits of having a wider pool of police to call on, I can see the benefits of standardised equipment/vehicles/training/IT/T&C/even air support etc BUT the officers policing the railways need to be trained in operating in the more dangerous environment offered by the railways. Are all Scotia Constabulary officers going to be railway trained? I doubt it.

The key how the police officers will respond to on track emergencies. The BTP do far more than patrol off track areas like stations. Will their operationally trained officers be deployed ONLY in relation to railway operations or will they pulled of these jobs to deal with the wide range of issues faced by the civil police?

 

[najaB]

Those who think it's a chance of bashing the SNP might well take another look.
The Tory/LibDem Goverment is handing over control.
Blame them if your a unionist.

They are handing responsibility of railway policing to the Scottish Government, but that doesn't mean that it has to be taken out of the hands of the BTP. That decision is being made by the SNP-led Sottish Government.

BTP's preference was to continue to provide the policing, reporting Scottish matters to the Scottish Government.

 

[Greenback]

The Scottish parliament wouldn't have been able to make the decision if it weren't for the UK government handing them control of policing.

It all depends on your point of view. Unionists will attack the SNP, nationalists will attack the Cons and LD's!

 

[Hackneyite]

"Hopefully backing him will also help bring about the downfall of Ms Sturgeon as well but that's not for here"

Genius: make a party-political comment and then sort of apologise.

 

[St Rollox]

They are handing responsibility of railway policing to the Scottish Government, but that doesn't mean that it has to be taken out of the hands of the BTP. That decision is being made by the SNP-led Sottish Government.

BTP's preference was to continue to provide the policing, reporting Scottish matters to the Scottish Government.

Don't disagree with your point although i think (could be wrong) money is part of the decision.
And the name would have been have needed to be changed to the Scottish Transport Police to satisfy this Scottish voter that it was in Scottish control.

 

[muz379]

Also my view.

I can see benefits of having a wider pool of police to call on,

I too can see that benefit but feel that mutual aid between BTP and home office forces already offers the chance of a larger pool of office to deal with events and incidents . Last weekends EDL rally in manchester was a prime example of the co operation between BTP and Greater Manchester Police

I mirror what someone else in here has said in that if police Scotland gets control over railways policing how long before the police forces in other busy conurbations like London , Manchester ,Mersyside or the Leeds city region will also want control over policing the transport network in these areas .

 

[martynbristow]

I don't really see how operating under a unified Scottish Police Service will have much effect. As I see it, the BTP in Scotland will simply become a specialist unit that is administered alongside other specialist units. Maybe my view is naive?

There are reasons FOR and AGAINST it.
BTP have specialist knowledge, experience and training but the same applies to firearms offices. So it could just be a local unit.

In England and Wales BTP is paid for by the train operators and I think it would be incredibly unwise to move this to local forces, even though they have to intervene anyway.
It would cause problems dealing with cable theft which covers multiple police areas and involves leasing with the railway.

Local policing has been in disarray for years, well before the current political system!