Scottish Electrification updates & discussion

[benbristow]

Also the 2/3rds doors would actually be a good fit for the line!

Yeah. The doors are a bit funny. Quite a big step. Manually operated too which must slow the service down a bit.

Makes a harder job for the ticket person too as they have to keep stopping inspecting tickets halfway down a carriage to attend to the doors and go out in the cold. A pain if they’re taking card transactions or scanning smartcards too.

 

[Fougasse]

I published on another thread recently how elctrification can be done well in this country and cited the example of the wiring train working on the Shotts line (Holytown to Mid-Calder) which is erecting two full tension lengths (catenary and contact) per shift. Yesterday they erected three full tension lengths in a shift:

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6449711104682708992

 

[route101]

I'd love to see 170's on the East Kilbride route. Much nicer trains - I'm not really fan of the noisy and inconsistent (every carriage seems to be from a different era) 156s. I tweeted Scotrail but they're sticking with the 156's for now.

Dont think the 170s are cleared for EK nor are the 158s . Not sure if i was dreaming but when the SPT 170s were delivered they were meant to go on the EK line . If 158s and 170s ever go on the GSW and EK is not electrified we may see them on EK .

 

[benbristow]

Dont think the 170s are cleared for EK nor are the 158s . Not sure if i was dreaming but when the SPT 170s were delivered they were meant to go on the EK line . If 158s and 170s ever go on the GSW and EK is not electrified we may see them on EK .

Is clearing a difficult job? Check it's safe to run and run a train up and down a few times...

 

[gsnedders]

Dont think the 170s are cleared for EK nor are the 158s . Not sure if i was dreaming but when the SPT 170s were delivered they were meant to go on the EK line . If 158s and 170s ever go on the GSW and EK is not electrified we may see them on EK .

They're not currently, AIUI. The question, of course, is how much effort it would be to clear the stock. I have no knowledge about the original plans for the SPT 170s, though, or why they might have changed!

 

[route101]

Is clearing a difficult job? Check it's safe to run and run a train up and down a few times...

Must be to do with the doors . Been mentioned on the forum a few times , same issue on WHL too . 156s will stay until either the line is electrified or new DMUS are ordered . I reckon 156s have another ten years in them

 

[snookertam]

Dont think the 170s are cleared for EK nor are the 158s . Not sure if i was dreaming but when the SPT 170s were delivered they were meant to go on the EK line . If 158s and 170s ever go on the GSW and EK is not electrified we may see them on EK .

You're right, they're not cleared, but a 158 did once make it as far as Busby in error.

 

[gsnedders]

You're right, they're not cleared, but a 158 did once make it as far as Busby in error.

I thought 158s were cleared for ECS only, which I seem to recall because of how utterly pointless it is?

 

[snookertam]

I thought 158s were cleared for ECS only, which I seem to recall because of how utterly pointless it is?

Yeah that rings a bell actually.

To get back on topic, it seems a real anomoly that the EK line (if not also the GBK) have not been electrified given the extent of the wires in the west of Scotland. And East Kilbride, being a town of at least 50,000 inhabitants, the largest place in Scotland without city status, only has a single track, with two single platform stations. Should have been dealt with long ago IMO.

 

[Altnabreac]

Yeah that rings a bell actually.

To get back on topic, it seems a real anomoly that the EK line (if not also the GBK) have not been electrified given the extent of the wires in the west of Scotland. And East Kilbride, being a town of at least 50,000 inhabitants, the largest place in Scotland without city status, only has a single track, with two single platform stations. Should have been dealt with long ago IMO.

Paisley is a wee bit bigger than EK but only just. Doesn't undermine your point about EK needing an upgraded service though.

 

[Tobbes]

Yeah that rings a bell actually.

To get back on topic, it seems a real anomoly that the EK line (if not also the GBK) have not been electrified given the extent of the wires in the west of Scotland. And East Kilbride, being a town of at least 50,000 inhabitants, the largest place in Scotland without city status, only has a single track, with two single platform stations. Should have been dealt with long ago IMO.

Is there room to double to EK throughout?

 

[snookertam]

Is there room to double to EK throughout?

Would probably need some work, Thorntonhall and Hairmyres stations might need rebuilt, but I don't think anything encroaches enough to prevent it.

East Kilbride as we know it now was only built in the 1950's and 60's. It's testament to the lunacy of the time that the opportunity wasn't taken then not only to double the line, but to extend it to a more central location.

 

[gsnedders]

AFAIK, the NR conclusion was that 4tph was possible without doubling throughout, though it would require more loops and double-tracking some of the stations.

 

[Southsider]

AFAIK, the NR conclusion was that 4tph was possible without doubling throughout, though it would require more loops and double-tracking some of the stations.

The only single track stations are Thorntonhall, Hairmyres and East Kilbride itself. My understanding is that a second platform at EK would allow trains to lay over there between runs rather than Central which would ease capacity at the latter.

 

[route101]

You're right, they're not cleared, but a 158 did once make it as far as Busby in error.

Never heard of that happening , when did that happen ?

 

[route101]

Yeah that rings a bell actually.

To get back on topic, it seems a real anomoly that the EK line (if not also the GBK) have not been electrified given the extent of the wires in the west of Scotland. And East Kilbride, being a town of at least 50,000 inhabitants, the largest place in Scotland without city status, only has a single track, with two single platform stations. Should have been dealt with long ago IMO.

Yeah underserved , seen a two car packed and standing 156 leaving central today ouch . Problem is also people live a fair bit from the stations and most drive . A lot of new housing near Hairmyres too which have few if any bus links .

 

[NotATrainspott]

The length of track south of Busby needing to be doubled isn't that great. There's already a short dynamic loop between Hairmyres and East Kilbride under the main road. A second platform at EK is a must, and then I don't see it being worthwhile to add yet another short loop (with associated S&C) rather than just connecting up the double track between Busby and Hairmyres. Thorntonhall would probably need doubled in any case, which would account for a fair bit of the cost. Hairmyres might get away without doubling if the timetable is right and trains would still cross on the short loop. A short stretch of single track to the terminus is not normally a problem.

 

[benbristow]

Yeah underserved , seen a two car packed and standing 156 leaving central today ouch . Problem is also people live a fair bit from the stations and most drive . A lot of new housing near Hairmyres too which have few if any bus links .

I work 5-6 minutes from Hairmyres Station and commute from Paisley. If the trains are bummered I’m bummered. Around 3 local circuit buses needed to get anywhere near the office with a bit of a walk afterwards. There isn’t even a direct bus to East Kilbride center. Best link is the hospital bus to Hamilton.

 

[Altnabreac]

Would probably need some work, Thorntonhall and Hairmyres stations might need rebuilt, but I don't think anything encroaches enough to prevent it.

East Kilbride as we know it now was only built in the 1950's and 60's. It's testament to the lunacy of the time that the opportunity wasn't taken then not only to double the line, but to extend it to a more central location.

For other examples of the attitude in New Towns of the time see Livingston. Two rail lines running through the town but a station was not built until 1984.

Glenrothes, Livingston, Cumbernauld all had nearby railway lines and the New Town designers made sure the railways ended up in peripheral parts of the towns. Irvine and East Kilbride both did relatively well to have railway stations reasonably near to the town centres despite the best efforts of 60s planning.

 

[InOban]

As the Milngavie line shows, there's a world of difference between a branch with the theoretical capacity for 4 trains an hour, and the ability to actually deliver that frequency reliably when attached to a complicated network.

 

[gord]

Only three weeks now until the week long blockade between Larbert and Dunblane and the communication for passengers is still quite concerning. Scotrail seem on top of it now to be fair but nothing mentioned on other websites.

Scotrail, as mentioned previously in this thread, have now communicated the closure fairly well it seems. Maybe later than they would have liked though.

There is nothing on National Rail Enquiries for that week. If anyone can find something, please correct me.

Nothing on LNER, though I've noticed they've stopped selling advance tickets to Gleneagles and Stirling for their direct service but still have advance tickets for Perth and stations north of there, so they obviously are aware and have adjusted their fare structure accordingly, so hopefully no-one should get caught out using their service.

As for Caledonian Sleeper, nothing at all, even still selling direct tickets to the stations in the middle of the blockade.

Looking at Real Train Times, it looks like not all the timetables have been finalised. I tweeted LNER and asked them and they said they are aware of the blockade and have a plan in place, and are expecting to run to Inverness. I tweeted Caledonian Sleeper the same question and they never replied.

Please note that I'm not complaining against the engineering work itself. Any improvement to the railway is a great thing and reading back through this thread, I'm looking forward to seeing how it all runs in the future. It's the lack of communication to passengers that worries me from some companies/websites. I've done what you're advised to do, checked the website, cancelled my advance tickets and made alternative arrangements but that's only because someone on here kindly directed me to the Scotrail page. I would normally have checked National Rail Enquiries. Hopefully, not too many passengers will be left stuck that week, particularly any sleeper passengers.

 

[59CosG95]

Scottish Wiring Progressometer - Post 5.2 (dated 26th September 2018)
Shotts (due March 2019)
All mileages taken from Holytown Jct (1m 24ch) to Midcalder Jct (23m 11ch).
New signalling system for the route tested & commissioned. Route due to go live in mid-November.

Holytown Jct (1m 24ch) to Fauldhouse (11m 70ch)
Fully wired west of the Carfin-Cleland Cutting on both lines; the Down Line is unwired for one wire run east of Cleland.

Platforms are being extended at Carfin.
At Cleland, CCTV cameras & CIS are being installed.
At Hartwood Station (6m 62ch), an entirely new DDA-compliant access route is being built, to allow removal of the old footbridge without the need for a replacement. CCTV/CIS improvements are also underway at the station.
The accommodation bridge at Hartwoodhill looks finished.
At Shotts station, Station Rd Bridge is being rebuilt, and platforms are being extended.

Fauldhouse (11m 70ch) to Midcalder Jct (23m 11ch)
Fully wired.

At Fauldhouse Station, CCTV and CIS screens are being installed/improved.
Breich Station reopened after a 12-week closure. Platforms have been reprofiled, with access to the eastbound platform now coming from the north, avoiding the need for a new footbridge.
Addiewell Station's old footbridge has gone, and the New Footbridge almost complete. CIS screens and CCTV cameras are also being installed.

Edinburgh-Falkirk-Glasgow
All mileages taken from Queen Street High Level (0m 00ch) towards Haymarket (46m 02ch).
Electric services (Class 380s) running between Glasgow Queen Street High Level & Edinburgh Waverley via Falkirk High (21m 63ch) in regular service; due to switch to Class 385 operation in December '18.

Via Falkirk Grahamston - LIVE as of 1/5/18. This includes

• Greenhill Upper Jct to Greenhill Lower Jct;
• Greenhill Lower Jct to Polmont Jct via Falkirk Grahamston;
• Grangemouth Jct;
• The "Larbert Triangle" (Larbert Jct, Carmuirs West Jct, and Carmuirs East Jct).

Now signed off for passenger service; Class 365s in operation as of 23/6/18.
Wires up and live as far north as Larbert Jct (but no further); SPS-bearing portals extend a short way north from Larbert Jct., along with a short run of catenary wire.
Steelwork is also up in the Grangemouth Terminal area, however the extent of SPS & wiring there is not yet known. Wires are now largely up in the vicinity of Fouldubs Jct, but work has yet to be completed with snagging etc.

Larbert - Stirling - Dunblane/Alloa
Line due to be blockaded from 14/10 to 22/10 for electrification, between Dunblane/Alloa and Larbert.
Alloa station now has contact & catenary wires installed; only the earth wire is up at Craigmill (nr Stirling). Wires currently end short of the River Forth on the Kincardine Lines, just behind Stirling County RFC's grounds; a gap is present at Cambus Loop.
At Larbert, both main lines and the Down Passenger Loop are fully wired.
Earth wires now up around Plean; masts are fully bedanglied around the M9.
TTCs up to the north of Hope's Crossing (between Cowie & Bannockburn).
A gap of around 4 TTCs can be found around Cowie, awaiting works from Scottish Power to alter pylons.
Lots of masts (mostly single masts, but a few TTCs too plus a pair to bear a portal boom) now up to the south of Millhall Rd Footbridge, between Kerse Rd & the A91.
Kerse Rd bridge undergoing reconstruction; due to be completed in October 2018.
Within Stirling, many masts/TTCs/portals are now up.

• SPS up over bay platforms 7 & 8, affixed to a multi-track portal.
• From Stirling Middle SB to the platforms, a large number of TTCs and portal booms (all with SPS) have gone up.
• SPS (on TTCs) up over through platforms 6 & 9 (on the east side).
• C&C wires now up through P10 (the former Motorail bay) - insulators have yet to be spliced in on the termination SSA.

Large number of masts (single masts, TTCs and a two-track portal) are up in the area around Stirling North Signal Box; a few piles remain unmasted at present.
Many masts up on both sides of the track around Cornton, just north of the diversion with the Kincardine Lines.
Through Bridge of Allan, all SPS is up, along with earth wires on both sides; the EW extends south to Stirling, again on both sides.
First pile in at the SW end of Dunblane. Concrete base with a cable embedded now in at the northern end of the station; possibly for a replacement signal?

Glossary of Terms
SPS - Small Part Steelwork; the "dangly bits" that hang off the masts e.g. registration arms.
TTC - Twin Track Cantilever; the "gallows" style masts with 2 sets of small part steelwork on it.
CIS - Customer Information Screen; the "dot matrix" displays shown on most modern stations.
SSA - Self-supporting Anchor; used for wire run terminations.

 

[route101]

I work 5-6 minutes from Hairmyres Station and commute from Paisley. If the trains are bummered I’m bummered. Around 3 local circuit buses needed to get anywhere near the office with a bit of a walk afterwards. There isn’t even a direct bus to East Kilbride center. Best link is the hospital bus to Hamilton.

I live nearby . The 201 now starts from the station i think but probably does not tie in with train times nor i hear of many using it to and from the station . How long does iit take you to get to your office from Hairmyres ? There was a short lived Arriva bus from EK to the Airport and Paisley around 9 years ago , didnt last long .

 

[matchmaker]

Platform 10 at Stirling (the old Motorail bay) is now wired. Worryingly, however, both catenary and contact wire appear to be connected directly to the end portal with no sign of insulators...

 

[mcmad]

Platform 10 at Stirling (the old Motorail bay) is now wired. Worryingly, however, both catenary and contact wire appear to be connected directly to the end portal with no sign of insulators...

Seem to recall the same happened at Queen Street initially. Can only assume it is quicker/easier to rig the wires and then cut in insulators at a later date when there is tension on the line.

 

[59CosG95]

Seem to recall the same happened at Queen Street initially. Can only assume it is quicker/easier to rig the wires and then cut in insulators at a later date when there is tension on the line.

Indeed, the insulators are spliced in later once the OLE is at the required tension.

 

[sannox]

EK trains are very often late because of the weaknesses in the network east of Busby. A 2nd platform would help at EK and allow better scheduling.

The passenger volume and 156 units with single leaf end doors don't help, the standing time is too long as people squeeze in. The 0759 from EK is a particularly good example- long dwell times and often leaves passengers on platforms. Ironically Scotrail publishes this as a 'many seats still available train' which I have never seen! http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G90601/2018/09/26/advanced

 

[Southsider]

EK trains are very often late because of the weaknesses in the network east of Busby. A 2nd platform would help at EK and allow better scheduling.

The passenger volume and 156 units with single leaf end doors don't help, the standing time is too long as people squeeze in. The 0759 from EK is a particularly good example- long dwell times and often leaves passengers on platforms. Ironically Scotrail publishes this as a 'many seats still available train' which I have never seen! http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G90601/2018/09/26/advanced

Those timings aren't unusual and show what a difference more coaches and, probably more importantly, a 1/3 2/3 door layout would make. Even off peak the dwell times are lengthy.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Platform 10 at Stirling (the old Motorail bay) is now wired. Worryingly, however, both catenary and contact wire appear to be connected directly to the end portal with no sign of insulators...

Seem to recall the same happened at Queen Street initially. Can only assume it is quicker/easier to rig the wires and then cut in insulators at a later date when there is tension on the line.

Indeed, the insulators are spliced in later once the OLE is at the required tension.

Exactly and the exact same procedure was used on the Liverpool Manchester scheme. There are extant photos somewhere which I will try and find for you. There is absolutely nothing to worry about.

 

[Fougasse]

Scottish Wiring Progressometer - Post 5.0 (dated 26th September 2018)
Shotts (due March 2019)
All mileages taken from Holytown Jct (1m 24ch) to Midcalder Jct (23m 11ch).
New signalling system for the route tested & commissioned. Route due to go live in mid-November.

Holytown Jct (1m 24ch) to Fauldhouse (11m 70ch)
Fully wired west of the Carfin-Cleland Cutting on both lines; only the Up Line is fully wired between the eastern end of the Cleland Cutting and the western end of Fauldhouse.
.

Down line is also fully wired with the exception of Carfin Cutting and the wire run just East of Cleland station.