Scottish Electrification updates & discussion

[GRALISTAIR]

So pardon my ignorance, what is the next bit that will logically get energized - to Larbert possibly?

Good news BTW

 

[170401]

So pardon my ignorance, what is the next bit that will logically get energized - to Larbert possibly?

Good news BTW

Greenhill - Polmont via Falkirk Grahamston will be next, shouldn't be too far away.

 

[InOban]

When I last came down the M9 across the tracks, there were some gaps but these have now been filled in by TTCs. Why do they have to use these? Is it just that ground on one side wouldn't support a pile?

No sign of any small components, let alone wire.

 

[59CosG95]

When I last came down the M9 across the tracks, there were some gaps but these have now been filled in by TTCs. Why do they have to use these? Is it just that ground on one side wouldn't support a pile?

No sign of any small components, let alone wire.

It could be for signal sighting; or it could be due to a physical obstruction where the STC would normally go.

 

[route101]

I think Altnabreac’s suggestion was a new local service terminating at Shotts, so could be 318/320s?

Didnt realise there will be a local service .Wonder if its from High Level or Low level?

 

[Altnabreac]

Didnt realise there will be a local service .Wonder if its from High Level or Low level?

I think you confuse me for a Scotrail timetable planner or official at Transport Scotland! No confirmation of any extra services yet. One suggestion though that I had heard mention of was to extend a Low Level service out to Shotts, picking up the calls at Holytown, Carfin, Cleland and Hartwood.

This would then allow the 2tph from High Level to both be semi fast services, albeit slightly slower at the east end as they would still need to cover the calls at the West Lothian and Edinburgh smaller stations.

Another possibility is to extend the Hamilton circle service that currently terminates in Motherwell at xx12 to give a regular Hamilton - Motherwell - Edinburgh service via Shotts. Will be interesting to see what if anything they decide to do with the Shotts line.

 

[clc]

What fastest end to end journey time do people think could realistically be achieved on the Shotts line:-

1. After electrification?
2. After electrification and the introduction of new local services at both ends of the line allowing the semi fast services to stop less frequently?

After investing £160m in the line I expect the Scottish Govt will want to see an increase in frequency as well as journey time improvements.

 

[47271]

This is all great. It's just a shame that there are no trains to run on the electrified lines!

I'm joking obviously, it is good to see one part of EGIP and its spinoffs going so well now.

 

[route101]

What fastest end to end journey time do people think could realistically be achieved on the Shotts line:-

1. After electrification?
2. After electrification and the introduction of new local services at both ends of the line allowing the semi fast services to stop less frequently?

After investing £160m in the line I expect the Scottish Govt will want to see an increase in frequency as well as journey time improvements.

Which is important as most people will still go Queen St - Edinburgh . Though if theres a decent connection i use the Shotts fast service .

I wonder what line will get wires next , Maryhill line ,, EK ...
You have consider stock too .

 

[Stopper]

Will be interesting to see if there is some low level services terminated at Shotts. Possibly the Milngavie-Motherwell via Hamilton or the Dalmuir-Whifflet via Carmyle. Picking up stops at Hartwood, Cleland, Carfin and Holytown as mentioned above.

That would allow both Shotts line services to run fast Shotts-Bellshill. Would obviously still be a fairly slow service with all the Edinburgh and West Lothian calls in there though.

 

[InOban]

My daughter was on the 17.18 'peak time' train yesterday. Very quiet after the first few stops. Traffic will have to grow a lot before extras are needed.

 

[Stopper]

The Shotts trains never look that busy at peak times when I see them at Haymarket. Quite often it’s just a single 156 and it never seems to have anyone standing.

The Shotts service doesn’t exactly serve many big places. A faster half-hourly service might entice some more passengers away from Livi North to Livi South, but other than Bellshill (which has the Lanark services towards Glasgow also), it’s not really serving much other than some small West Lothian & North Lanarkshire towns, aswell as some little-used Edinburgh suburbs.

It will probably just remain the same 2tph (fast, slow) service with quicker journey times.

 

[clc]

It could pick up more end to end traffic if it had a 2tph service with sub 60 min journey time.

 

[clc]

Just to expand on my previous post, once you get the journey time below 60 mins Edinburgh-bound passengers travelling via Central have less incentive to walk over to Queen Street. And it benefits commuters coming the other way too due to Central’s proximity to the IFSD where tens of thousands of jobs and most of Glasgow’s blue chip employers are based. Central is around 7-8 minutes closer to the IFSD than Queen Street is in terms of walking time. The IFSD is also where most of the future city centre jobs growth will happen, with plenty of gap sites and numerous major office proposals in the pipeline.

 

[InOban]

Wouldn't be surprised if the IFSD people leave early to get the 1700 XC.

 

[Stopper]

The current semi-fast is around 67-68 minutes I believe? That should improve when the 385s arrive.

A big problem with usage on the line is that there isn’t a lot of big commuter towns on the line. For example, Livingston South is the secondary station in Livingston. Bellshill and Uddingston also both have the option of a possible 6-car 320 with quicker journey times rather than a 2-car 156.

The line via Falkirk has massively busy commuter stations such as Linlithgow, Polmont, Falkirk High and Croy. The A-B line has Livi North, Bathgate, Airdie and Coatbridge. There’s not a lot to offer other than improving end-to-end journey times to give Central passengers a regular fast Edinburgh service.

 

[clc]

Page 152 indicates that in the long term there’ll be demand for an additional 1tph Shotts-Glasgow service via the low level line, terminating at Central:

https://cdn.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Scotland-Route-Study-Appendices.pdf

 

[adrock1976]

Page 152 indicates that in the long term there’ll be demand for an additional 1tph Shotts-Glasgow service via the low level line, terminating at Central:

https://cdn.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Scotland-Route-Study-Appendices.pdf

I am aware of a siding at Exhibition Centre station that is used for Anderston starters/terminators. If it would be possible to squeeze in a platform, the trains could be extended to run to and from Exhibition Centre.

There is an elevated section of roadway that is part of the Clydeside Expressway near to the siding, therefore it may not be possible to squeeze in a platform there.

 

[edwin_m]

Curious. I distinctly remember Transport Scotland people talking about a new turnback being needed for extra trains to terminate at Central LL from the east.

 

[Hackneyite]

Am I right in deducing that there is no longer-if there ever was- any notion of integrating Edinburgh- Falkirk Grahamston-Cumbernauld into the Glasgow suburban network?

 

[InOban]

I don't think there ever was. The limited speed of the LL trains would be incompatible with the 100mph mainline trains.
I am assuming that the Cumbernauld extension of the LL trains to Springburn will continue?

 

[gingertom]

Curious. I distinctly remember Transport Scotland people talking about a new turnback being needed for extra trains to terminate at Central LL from the east.

Any prospect of the other 2 low level platforms at Central being brought back into service? This would fulfill the new turnback requirement.
I'm quite sure if this could be done easily it would have been done long by now. I heard rumours a while back that some "substantial civil engineering" (= expensive!) was required so wouldn't happen.

 

[Highlandspring]

I am assuming that the Cumbernauld extension of the LL trains to Springburn will continue?

If you mean the 2Vxx Dumbarton - Cumbernauld and vice versa service then no, it will be cut back to terminate at Springburn again as it used to.

 

[Stopper]

I don't think there ever was. The limited speed of the LL trains would be incompatible with the 100mph mainline trains.
I am assuming that the Cumbernauld extension of the LL trains to Springburn will continue?

No but I believe the Argyle line services via Whifflet will remain.

 

[gordonjahn]

Curious. I distinctly remember Transport Scotland people talking about a new turnback being needed for extra trains to terminate at Central LL from the east.

Maybe confusing this with the turn back at Finnieston / Kelvinhaugh to reverse trains through Queen St LL from the East (so they aren't hitting the busy section through Patrick and Hyndland)?

At the moment everything through QST LL has to go through Patrick but when there was chat about Crossrail and building the High St chord, the idea was to bring services from (I assume Paisley Canal / Ayrshire / Inverclyde / somewhere?!?) across the city and union and terminate at Queen St LL or Charing Cross using the turn back. This would presumably save on platform space at Central and people looking for cross-Glasgow connections could potentially change at Gilmour St for a Queen St service and not need to walk between Central and Queen St.

I was never sure how passengers would appreciate the extra time taken to get around to Queen St, but I think that was the idea - imagine, the 15 minute Kilcreggan ferry trip could be replaced with 2 hours on a direct train from Gourock to Helensburgh!

 

[gsnedders]

Any prospect of the other 2 low level platforms at Central being brought back into service? This would fulfill the new turnback requirement.
I'm quite sure if this could be done easily it would have been done long by now. I heard rumours a while back that some "substantial civil engineering" (= expensive!) was required so wouldn't happen.

The thing that's always been said is that the foundations of the Radisson Blu get in the way, but that's never really made sense to me (the line runs directly under Argyle St, so the hotel is on the opposite side of the extant lines to the unused platforms); more plausible is the building opposite it (the one that contains the The Sir John Moore 'spoons among other things). That all said, an east-facing bay might not be impossible.

 

[Southsider]

Which is important as most people will still go Queen St - Edinburgh . Though if theres a decent connection i use the Shotts fast service .

I wonder what line will get wires next , Maryhill line ,, EK ...
You have consider stock too .

I and many others selfishly hope it's East Kilbride. I don't understand why Shotts was done first - operational reasons have been suggested but the usage figures on EK are far higher, it would appear the customers did not come first in this decision. In terms of stock, I believe 385s are planned but, being a relatively short commuter line, any Scotrail EMUs (or similar, cascaded) would do. A bit concerning to read up thread that the proposal and business case aren't even in the system yet. Hopefully they're in someone's desk drawer ready to be put in the post!

 

[gordonjahn]

The thing that's always been said is that the foundations of the Radisson Blu get in the way, but that's never really made sense to me (the line runs directly under Argyle St, so the hotel is on the opposite side of the extant lines to the unused platforms); more plausible is the building opposite it (the one that contains the The Sir John Moore 'spoons among other things). That all said, an east-facing bay might not be impossible.

You're correct. See http://www.eastbank.org.uk/images/Glasgow/GW0136.jpg for a visual; the GLC LL is west of the main station complex so yes, it's the Westergate Building (with Wetherspoons) that's in the way. There's a very long thread with old pictures at https://urbanglasgow.co.uk/abandoned-central-low-level-in-1967-t3419.html

 

[Railsigns]

I don't understand why Shotts was done first

To provide an electrified diversionary route during the remodelling of Carstairs, I believe.

 

[gordonjahn]

I and many others selfishly hope it's East Kilbride. I don't understand why Shotts was done first - operational reasons have been suggested but the usage figures on EK are far higher, it would appear the customers did not come first in this decision. In terms of stock, I believe 385s are planned but, being a relatively short commuter line, any Scotrail EMUs (or similar, cascaded) would do. A bit concerning to read up thread that the proposal and business case aren't even in the system yet. Hopefully they're in someone's desk drawer ready to be put in the post!

Simple - it wasn't about passengers, even if that's the thing politicians shout about: http://www.freightonrail.org.uk/hottopicstenproposedenhancementsscotland.htm. Clearing Shotts to W12 and electrifying (along with the Edinburgh south sub) gives an alternative electric route to Glasgow/Central belt terminals for W12 gauge if the WCML/Carstairs can't be used.