Scottish Electrification updates & discussion

[GRALISTAIR]

Not a "trudge" for me. I enjoy that walk.

Me too -but it ages since I did it. Sorry to get OT but reminds me of walking between Tyndrum Upper and Lower in the 1980s when I was doing Class 37 'orlidge.

 

[Carntyne]

Isn't the Edinburgh - Ayr a positioning move to get 380s over to North Berwick? It'll not be needed when the 385s arrive surely?

 

[me123]

Not a "trudge" for me. I enjoy that walk.

So do I in all fairness, and it's really not a long walk. You could well have further to walk when transiting at most major international airports. But there are people for whom the walk isn't great - for the less mobile and those with luggage it's not an easy walk (the wee free bus is a slow and ineffective way to get between the two stations, particularly from Central to Queen Street where it diverts to serve the bus station). Buchanan Street can be busy and not easy to negotiate in a hurry. And the Glaswegian weather can make the whole experience rather wet.

 

[Southsider]

According to STV news tonight, Scotrail are hoping to start electric services between Queen Street High level and Edinburgh in May, two months earlier than previously announced but six months later than originally planned. Unfortunately I can't find the article on their (extremely poor) website.

 

[iain-j]

According to STV news tonight, Scotrail are hoping to start electric services between Queen Street High level and Edinburgh in May, two months earlier than previously announced but six months later than originally planned. Unfortunately I can't find the article on their (extremely poor) website.

I'ts mentioned in the bottom part of this article as well.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/transp...n-the-rise-but-row-over-free-travel-1-4342182

 

[deltic08]

According to STV news tonight, Scotrail are hoping to start electric services between Queen Street High level and Edinburgh in May, two months earlier than previously announced but six months later than originally planned. Unfortunately I can't find the article on their (extremely poor) website.

That means it will be energised soon to allow for de-snagging and driver training?

Will Stirling, Dunblane, Alloa follow on straight away?

 

[Altnabreac]

That means it will be energised soon to allow for de-snagging and driver training?

Will Stirling, Dunblane, Alloa follow on straight away?

The Scotsman article linked above states that the timetable improvements will commence in December 2018. My understanding is that the faster journey times are made possible in part by the better acceleration performance of electric trains on the stopping Stirling services thus meaning they get out of the way of the E-G services more rapidly.

So that indicates that December 2018 is still planned as the completion date of the Stirling / Dunblane / Alloa electrification. If you were going to delay any aspect of the electrification it would probably be the Cumbernauld - Greenhill section which is useful as a diversionary route but probably not essential to unlocking those journey time improvements.

However it would seem that in general the overall Scottish Electrification programme is actually progressing faster than expected. Shotts line was not originally scheduled to be complete until December 2019 but the latest announcements have stated March 2019 as the opening date:
http://www.railway-technology.com/n...ween-holytown-and-midcalder-junctions-5716351

I don't think they'd be bringing forward dates on one scheme while delaying another so my expectation would be that Stirling / Dunblane / Alloa is all on track for completion by December 2018 as planned.

 

[Photohunter71]

Isn't the Edinburgh - Ayr a positioning move to get 380s over to North Berwick? It'll not be needed when the 385s arrive surely?

Aren't the 380's doing this run at present?

 

[Southsider]

However it would seem that in general the overall Scottish Electrification programme is actually progressing faster than expected. Shotts line was not originally scheduled to be complete until December 2019 but the latest announcements have stated March 2019 as the opening date:
http://www.railway-technology.com/n...ween-holytown-and-midcalder-junctions-5716351

I don't think they'd be bringing forward dates on one scheme while delaying another so my expectation would be that Stirling / Dunblane / Alloa is all on track for completion by December 2018 as planned.

As ever, the good news doesn't make the headlines! If they get ahead of programme (and I have been amazed at how quickly Paisley Canal and Whiflett went) where does that leave the rolling stock situation? Assuming the 385s can't be brought forward could Scotrail dip into the pool of 321s again (I believe another three are coming) or would they continue with diesel under new wires? I suspect it would be largely down to the contractual situation with existing leases although the demand for EMUs down south may force a change.

 

[Mordac]

As ever, the good news doesn't make the headlines! If they get ahead of programme (and I have been amazed at how quickly Paisley Canal and Whiflett went) where does that leave the rolling stock situation? Assuming the 385s can't be brought forward could Scotrail dip into the pool of 321s again (I believe another three are coming) or would they continue with diesel under new wires? I suspect it would be largely down to the contractual situation with existing leases although the demand for EMUs down south may force a change.

Remember that originally EGIP electrification was scheduled for December 2016, way before the 385s arrived. It was always planned to operate the service with 380s in the meantime.

 

[Southsider]

Remember that originally EGIP electrification was scheduled for December 2016, way before the 385s arrived. It was always planned to operate the service with 380s in the meantime.

Indeed but if Shotts and some of the others come in early then the situation of a lack EMUs could arise. I appreciate the timetables wouldn't change but the choice of power would be available.

 

[mcmad]

Not sure Stirling electrification for Dec 18 is achievable. Story in the local stirling paper that Network Rail will have to rebuild Kerse Road bridge after all despite track lowering being carried out as part of the works at Stirling in 2014. Estimated for a years (road) closure with the outline planning application only just going in.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Not sure Stirling electrification for Dec 18 is achievable.

Cumbernauld/Polmont to Larbert, Stirling and Alloa/Dunblane is 35 route miles.
That's nearly as far as Glasgow-Newbridge on E&G (38 miles), with some complexity around Falkirk and Stirling if not as much as on the Glasgow approaches.
There's also Kippenross tunnel just before Dunblane (610 yards).
They need to be under way with piling already to finish in less than 2 years.
I haven't seen much in the way of progress reports on the ground, so can't tell how they are doing.

 

[mcmad]

Nothing physical other than survey, SI and other prep works at the moment. design is being progressed but all focus is on getting the E&G wires finished and commissioned first before the works move onto Stirling.

 

[Altnabreac]

Not sure Stirling electrification for Dec 18 is achievable. Story in the local stirling paper that Network Rail will have to rebuild Kerse Road bridge after all despite track lowering being carried out as part of the works at Stirling in 2014. Estimated for a years (road) closure with the outline planning application only just going in.

I don't see structures work being the main critical path issue. Kerse Road and Perth Road, Dunblane are the 2 additional rebuilds and the programmed dates - May 2017 to May 2018 leave plenty of time for contingency and wiring.

The issue is more with piling and wiring which was due to finish on EGIP and move on to Stirling. Will the late start impact on the Dec 2018 date? Maybe. Maybe not.

 

[92002]

I don't see structures work being the main critical path issue. Kerse Road and Perth Road, Dunblane are the 2 additional rebuilds and the programmed dates - May 2017 to May 2018 leave plenty of time for contingency and wiring.

The issue is more with piling and wiring which was due to finish on EGIP and move on to Stirling. Will the late start impact on the Dec 2018 date? Maybe. Maybe not.

The bulk of piling has been completed from Cumbernauld to Greenhill Lower and is in the process of getting masts and eventual wiring.

Will carry on North from there to both Falkirk and Polmont then to Stirling, Dunblane and Alloa.

All coming along nicely.

 

[mcmad]

The bulk of piling has been completed from Cumbernauld to Greenhill Lower and is in the process of getting masts and eventual wiring.

Will carry on North from there to both Falkirk and Polmont then to Stirling, Dunblane and Alloa.

All coming along nicely.

You said all that back in November when you were claiming Stirling station was getting wired at Christmas so am taking anything you post with a hopper full of salt.

 

[QueensCurve]

the wee free bus is a slow and ineffective way to get between the two stations

A strictly Presbyterian bus on which Catholics aren't welcome?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not sure Stirling electrification for Dec 18 is achievable. Story in the local stirling paper that Network Rail will have to rebuild Kerse Road bridge after all despite track lowering being carried out as part of the works at Stirling in 2014. Estimated for a years (road) closure with the outline planning application only just going in.

Kerse Road Bridge for the uninitiated.

 

[clc]

Was reading Phil Verster's comments at Holyrood the other day. He confirmed that the Queen St redevelopment was delayed due to significant but as yet unquantifiable risk associated with the TAWS order. He had expected the TAWS unit to report back to the minister in July of last year, but this had been delayed until January or February this year. He wasn't sure exactly what the TAWS unit would advise or what consequent action would be required.

He said three structures on the SDA project would have to be adjusted to comply with the new standards. Two were bridge structures for which they could see solutions. However, more challenging was the listed footbridge at Stirling station which would have to be raised, and if they couldn't sort this in time it could have an impact on the completion of the SDA project.

There was a possibility that EMUs could be running on the E&G from May rather than July.

There was also information about the cost escalation on major projects. The £379 million figure quoted by Ernst & Young was not accurate and the correct figure agreed with ORR and TS was £293 million.

Lots of other issues covered too including Shotts, HML and Aberdeen-Inverness:

http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=10740&mode=pdf

 

[68000]

That's an encouraging cost of roughly £650K per stkm, much like the figure offered in the 2009 electrification RUS.
It's good that we are back to an acceptable cost for standard electrification.
The Shotts line is about as simple a line to wire as you could get, being just a double track route between two already-wired areas.
It's also a very long time since NR awarded a wiring contract.
We're still waiting for something similar for the outstanding phases of the NW electrification work.
Hopefully it's a sign that routine rollouts can continue without emptying the coffers before completion.

Just on this, the contract with Carillion does not include immunisation of the S&T as that is being done by a separate signalling renewal project.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Just on this, the contract with Carillion does not include immunisation of the S&T as that is being done by a separate signalling renewal project.

So maybe not quite so good then.
But I see in Phil Verster's statements at Holyrood that the unit cost of Scottish electrification is the lowest in NR.
So the others have some catching up to do.

 

[92002]

You said all that back in November when you were claiming Stirling station was getting wired at Christmas so am taking anything you post with a hopper full of salt.

You really should get out more.

Are you trying to tell me that the masts erected at Greenhill Lower were done by pokemon.

Trying talking some sense for a change. You really could get a job with the Scotsman.

 

[QueensCurve]

You really should get out more.

Are you trying to tell me that the masts erected at Greenhill Lower were done by pokemon.

Trying talking some sense for a change. You really could get a job with the Scotsman.

I do despair at the level of rudeness seen in online fora. If we could all try to be polite, as we do when we speak face to face [presumably], it would help.

 

[RobertMacRae]

It's a long shot but here goes. I'm an overhead linesman with 14 years experience under my belt. I've worked on low and high voltage, wood poles and towers. I'm hoping to transfer my skills over to the overheads on the rail network. It's obviously a bit different and I'm not sure what tickets I would have to start with. Could any kind gentlemen point me in the right direction of companies that might take on people in my position or who might train people up? I live in the Glasgow area and it looks like there's a lot of work going on just now. Thanks in advance for any info.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

It's a long shot but here goes. I'm an overhead linesman with 14 years experience under my belt. I've worked on low and high voltage, wood poles and towers. I'm hoping to transfer my skills over to the overheads on the rail network. It's obviously a bit different and I'm not sure what tickets I would have to start with. Could any kind gentlemen point me in the right direction of companies that might take on people in my position or who might train people up? I live in the Glasgow area and it looks like there's a lot of work going on just now. Thanks in advance for any info.

Welcome to the forum . I hope you get the help you need

 

[RobertMacRae]

Welcome to the forum . I hope you get the help you need

Thanks man!

 

[och aye]

It might be worth posting your query in this sub forum:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=122

 

[RobertMacRae]

It might be worth posting your query in this sub forum:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=122

Ok thanks I'll take a look now. Cheers

 

[signallerscot]

It's a long shot but here goes. I'm an overhead linesman with 14 years experience under my belt. I've worked on low and high voltage, wood poles and towers. I'm hoping to transfer my skills over to the overheads on the rail network. It's obviously a bit different and I'm not sure what tickets I would have to start with. Could any kind gentlemen point me in the right direction of companies that might take on people in my position or who might train people up? I live in the Glasgow area and it looks like there's a lot of work going on just now. Thanks in advance for any info.

Try SWGR, based in Springburn - http://www.sw-gr.com/

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

My understanding is that there are several contractors working on various parts of the Scottish electrification projects.
ABC Electrification is doing Edinburgh-Glasgow (Alstom, Babcock and Costain joint venture). https://www.babcockinternational.com/Sectors/Rail/Electrification-and-Power
Carillion Powerlines has recently started work on the Shotts line. http://www.railstaff.uk/2014/03/20/skills-carillion-powerlines/