Scottish Electrification updates & discussion

[Macwomble]

How far off is the Grangemouth branch?

Quite a way, I'd say. Doesn't appear to be any wiring from (much) beyond the branch junction and certainly none in Grangemouth itself.

 

[mcmad]

heard a rumour that the Grangemouth branch had been descoped for just now

 

[InOban]

I would have thought that wires to Grangemouth would go along with wires on the South Sub, since both are primarily for freight on the W12 route from Felixtowe (although the Sub will also be essential if major work is planned on either approach to Waverley).

 

[Stopper]

I believe the Sunday Dunblane/Stirling will still be all-stops post-electrification on Sundays and the E-G via Cumbernauld won’t run on Sundays. So if a GLQ-FKG service is still going to run on a Sunday, part of the branch will still need to be electrified for services to turn.

 

[Chris125]

Aren't there still semaphores at Fouldubs? Surely resignalling will be required before the wires are finished down to Grangemouth.

 

[Stopper]

There is indeed. I heard the box at Fouldubs was probably going to be done away with.

 

[Highlandspring]

Fouldubs box is staying put for the foreseeable. Signalling alterations specifically for the branch electrification scheme were carried out at Fouldubs last weekend including the replacement of three existing semaphore signals with ground mounted discs and complete renewal of two existing semaphores with main sized arms on reduced height posts. Brand new semaphores under brand new wires in 2018, who’d have thought it?

 

[59CosG95]

Fouldubs box is staying put for the foreseeable. Signalling alterations specifically for the branch electrification scheme were carried out at Fouldubs last weekend including the replacement of three existing semaphore signals with ground mounted discs and complete renewal of two existing semaphores with main sized arms on reduced height posts. Brand new semaphores under brand new wires in 2018, who’d have thought it?

Good to hear that it hasn't been put "on ice" like much of the wiring south of the border...

 

[Macwomble]

heard a rumour that the Grangemouth branch had been descoped for just now

Wouldn't think so....all the masts are in place.

 

[Stopper]

Yep there are masts all over Grangemouth, it just seems to be mostly empty. It’s a shame that Grangemouth station is unlikely to get off the ground again, an extension of the Grahamston terminators increased to 2tph would have been nice but that’s dead and buried now.

 

[kilonewton]

Grangemouth delayed by concentrating resources to get the line through Grahamston complete for May timetable perhaps? Larbet was supposed to be wired by then as well I thought.

 

[Stopper]

There isn’t enough 365s to start the line through Grahamston by May, nor any other EMU.

The sole focus of the 365s coming up is to get the very very high demand E-G via Falkirk High route running with a more sensible number of carriages, whether they run on the line or not. The E-G via Grahamston and Cumbernauld isn’t going to be a very high demand service at all, especially not end to end, so I can’t see it being rushed into service while complications with stock and wires still remain. It will likely come into service when the 385s eventually arrive.

On another point though, the masts have been up on the Grangemouth branch for absolutely ages now, it was one of the first to see wires off the main E-G line if I recall correctly. I thought with the freight trains that they would want to get it done pretty sharpish.

 

[Observer]

Yep there are masts all over Grangemouth, it just seems to be mostly empty. It’s a shame that Grangemouth station is unlikely to get off the ground again, an extension of the Grahamston terminators increased to 2tph would have been nice but that’s dead and buried now.

I know this won't get off the ground because of lack of stock, but realistically if a station was built, could a service from Grangemouth to Alloa be doable or would the lines just be too busy to add another train? Had this idea in my head for a while when they announced the Grahamston terminators getting extended to Edinburgh.

 

[Jonny]

I know this won't get off the ground because of lack of stock, but realistically if a station was built, could a service from Grangemouth to Alloa be doable or would the lines just be too busy to add another train? Had this idea in my head for a while when they announced the Grahamston terminators getting extended to Edinburgh.

I think Alloa might be a long way round for a short journey compared to extending current services from Glasgow that terminate at Falkirk Grahamston.

 

[oldchap]

Several masts up north of Stirling today around the Cornton Crossings. Quick work indeed: the foundations have been in for some time but I don't remember seeing any masts at all yesterday.

 

[Altnabreac]

I know this won't get off the ground because of lack of stock, but realistically if a station was built, could a service from Grangemouth to Alloa be doable or would the lines just be too busy to add another train? Had this idea in my head for a while when they announced the Grahamston terminators getting extended to Edinburgh.

Realistically to get a decent business case the services need to run to Glasgow (or Edinburgh with a reversal).

The proposed extension of Glasgow - Grahamston services to Edinburgh has probably put the brakes on any Grangemouth station reopening for some time to come. Not that Falkirk Council have ever seemed particularly keen on it, if they had been then it might have gone somewhere.

 

[InOban]

The prerequisites for a Grangemouth service would seem to be 1. Grade separation at Greenhill Upper 2. Additional stations such as Bonnybridge 3. Growth in the Glasgow to Stirling market to justify running them limited stop with a new stopping service to Grangemouth.

 

[Stopper]

Problem with the Glasgow to Stirling market is that it already has at least 1tph fast between the two cities, sometimes 2tph. After the HSTs come in there will be a guaranteed 2tph fast service as well as the 2tph local, so I can’t see a Grangemouth stopper ever replacing the Stirling ones.

I always thought Grangemouth could run as a very viable station with 2tph to Glasgow via Cumbernauld (with a possible new station at Bonnybridge). I think those two stations would be fairly well used. I think extending the Grahamston terminators to Grangemouth is a better idea than extending them to Edinburgh but it’s obviously not going to happen now.

 

[Altnabreac]

The prerequisites for a Grangemouth service would seem to be 1. Grade separation at Greenhill Upper 2. Additional stations such as Bonnybridge 3. Growth in the Glasgow to Stirling market to justify running them limited stop with a new stopping service to Grangemouth.

That's not a bad call actually. The original EGIP spec had a 3 platform terminating station at Croy for Glasgow local services so could see a Grangemouth - Glasgow via Croy service having some purpose as a method for speeding up the Alloa services to semi fast and possibly a cheaper and easier intervention than rebuilding Croy.

As you say it would need Greenhill Grade separation first though so not a short term solution.

 

[Stopper]

If that was the case then Grangemouth would have a good business case. Would probably be all stops (with a new call at Bonnybridge). That would allow Lenzie and Bishopbriggs (and maybe Croy) to be removed from the Alloa/Stirlings and allow Camelon to be removed from the Edinburgh-Dunblanes.

 

[InOban]

It may depend on how successful the HST services are. It could be that most become Stirling to pick up only.

 

[route:oxford]

It may depend on how successful the HST services are. It could be that most become Stirling to pick up only.

Would that work as well as the "pick-up" only at Reading?

 

[InOban]

! We'll there are platform gates at both ends..

 

[Macwomble]

Timelapse of the Kerse Road bridge demolition.

https://twitter.com/NetworkRailEGIP/status/992423557715161088

 

[PYROOGOBBO]

anyone know of when grahamston to cumbernauld is electrified?

 

[InOban]

Keep up! The power went on last Tuesday.

 

[59CosG95]

Keep up! The power went on last Tuesday.

That said, electric service trains won't appear on the route until December.

 

[InOban]

And even that's not guaranteed.

 

[59CosG95]

Indeed - to keep in tradition with most of my cynical posts, I raise this quote to discuss the probability of 385s by December 2018.

(For those who cannot see the image, it is of David Mitchell as Mark Corrigan saying "Chance Would Be A Fine Thing")

 

[jamieintercity]

I dont suppose anyone knows how many bridges/footbridges are left to be replaced on the shotts line and between larbert and dunblane/stirling/Alloa for electrification?

Does kippenross tunnel (south of dunblane) need to have the tracks lowered or is that cleared for electrification?

How many masts are there needed to be installed on the shotts line and between Stirling and larbert? I know a majority of masts are installed between Stirling and Alloa and the first handful appeared north of Stirling just last week.