Scotrail Stock

[Blindtraveler]

are thanks again for the replies

 

[Scotrail84]

25 is more than a handful (from memory the requirement is for about 10 for the InverNet services)
It was suggested a long time ago to acquire four Class 153 units, but eventually this was dropped in favour of retaining Class 156

Were/are Scotrail looking at bringing 153s up here at any point?? These units would be ideal for services like Cowdenbeaths during the day or the Glenrothes terminators. Not to mention Cumbernaulds and Grahamstons too

 

[Blindtraveler]

think it was said earlier it would be too small a fleat. However, I see the advantages of having them here too! whilst were on mad it'll nfver happen ideas hows about a PPM on Motherwell Cumbernald? Lol

 

[rail-britain]

Were/are Scotrail looking at bringing 153s up here at any point?? These units would be ideal for services like Cowdenbeaths during the day or the Glenrothes terminators. Not to mention Cumbernaulds and Grahamstons too

Yes, Transport Scotland and ScotRail looked at a small fleet of Class 153 units
These were to be used on light rural services, light urban services, and strengthening
The main issue was these are so far apart it was not practical, such as Ayr - Stranraer, Fort William - Mallaig, Glasgow - Anniesland, and Cumbernauld - Motherwell
Hence why ScotRail acquired several Class 158 units, as they were more suitable, which also allowed a cascade of Class 156 units

Ironically, those operaters with Class 153 units are already looking at returning them to Class 155 units due to increased demand and these units operating along with another unit almost permanently on strengthening

A Class 153 on Cumbernauld / Falkirk Grahamston?
Although four Class 153 units could operate this during the offpeak period, the demand is such at peak periods they would either need to be paired up or joined to a Class 156 or Class 158
It is more practical to use the same unit throughout the day, even if it does operate at 10% capacity, rather than store it off peak
Look back three years and Class 170 units were operating this service, now operated by single or pairs of Class 156 and Class 158
It's all irrelevant now as plans are being put into place to replace all this rolling stock

 

[Nym]

Replace all of scotland's Diesel stock?

Well that would get rid of pacers..

 

[tbtc]

Replace all of scotland's Diesel stock?

I reckon the planned electrification in the central belt will free up about fifty DMUs (the Edinburgh - Falkirk High - Glasgow service needs sixteen 170s at rush hour, for example, plus spares).

There'll still be DMUs needed for the GSW/ WHL (156 run at the moment), and Fife/ Aberdeen/ Inverness services (158/170).

I've suggested before that the displaced 170s (three coach) would replace 158s (two coach), but thats just my hunch...

 

[rail-britain]

I've suggested before that the displaced 170s (three coach) would replace 158s (two coach), but thats just my hunch...

More likely is strengthening of existing services
It has been suggested the remaining Express routes will increase to pairs of Class 170 units, until route capacity issues are resolved
HiTrans has been concerned over mixed units between Perth / Aberdeen and Inverness (Class 158 with Class 170) and has been advised this will be resolved shortly where trains will be formed solely of Class 170 units)

 

[tbtc]

More likely is strengthening of existing services
It has been suggested the remaining Express routes will increase to pairs of Class 170 units, until route capacity issues are resolved
HiTrans has been concerned over mixed units between Perth / Aberdeen and Inverness (Class 158 with Class 170) and has been advised this will be resolved shortly where trains will be formed solely of Class 170 units)

The problem with "mixed units" is the lack of corridor connection (so staffing/trolley problems).

A doubled up 170 doesn't really help that.

I'm sure some services will be enhanced, and the Scotrail fleet will be higher post electrification, but not by fifty units.

 

[First ScotRail]

Following on from my post regarding Helensburgh Upper works. See latest round of engineering works, seems either a coincidence or I didn't hear lies...

http://www.scotrail.co.uk/sites/default/files/documents/10761_WHL.pdf

 

[rail-britain]

Following on from my post regarding Helensburgh Upper works. See latest round of engineering works

This is track and route improvements, no platforms sadly
Details on this were published about 8 months ago (as it was going to impact the sleepers)

 

[jopsuk]

The problem with "mixed units" is the lack of corridor connection (so staffing/trolley problems).

A doubled up 170 doesn't really help that.

Definitely a design flaw with the 170s in my opinion. Lack of corridor connector is OK (ish) on DOO routes (though DOO itself is another matter discussed to death), but on staffed routes, especially with catering, a connector should have been mandatory.

 

[rail-britain]

Lack of corridor connector is OK (ish) on DOO routes, but on staffed routes, a connector should have been mandatory

Surely it should be the other way round, hence why it works as it now is

The Class 318 units are DOO, when connected in pairs (as built and prior to modification) the on-board staff could walk through the units
Other DOO units across Scotland tend to be operated in singles now (hence why the modification to the Class 318)
The Class 170 (and pairs of other non-corridor stock) tends to have two sets of ticket staff (one per unit) on the rare occasions this occurs
However, catering does tend to be restricted to just one per train
This currently remains an issue on Perth - Inverness services (and Inverness - Aberdeen - Dundee services were a Class 158 is used)
On the plus side this will be resolved within the next few years through high capacity timetables (when they are eventually introduced)

 

[jopsuk]

There's plenty of DOO (usually without any RPI) with non-gangway stock in the south east of England, with three units not being uncommon.

 

[ObservationCar]

170's are NOT suitable for the Highland Mainline, Class 158's are more suited, as they have corridor connections along with doors at the end of the carriage rather than 2/3 as in the case of 170's. (the whole carriage gets an Icy blast when the doors open at Aviemore in the middle of winter/June!)

Better still would be loco stock on peak services, and 170's or 158's for the stoppers as this would be efficient use of acceleration. Spare HST's in 5 years or so time, would be the best bet maybe even running with a Power Car at one end Mk3 DVT at other and 5 Mk3's in between, this would solve cylce space problems. Spare 170's 158's 156's can go down to Englandshire.

 

[marks87]

Better still would be loco stock on peak services, and 170's or 158's for the stoppers as this would be efficient use of acceleration. Spare HST's in 5 years or so time, would be the best bet maybe even running with a Power Car at one end Mk3 DVT at other and 5 Mk3's in between, this would solve cylce space problems. Spare 170's 158's 156's can go down to Englandshire.

How would an HST split at Crianlarich?

 

[ObservationCar]

How would an HST split at Crianlarich?

Put 2 dbso' in the middle!! Repaint the whole train in blue stripe executive livery.

As seen here

Serious, there has to be a provision/procurement for a dedicated rural train, it need only be 2-3 carriages, panoramic windows, low but comfortable seats, limited catering provion, but would have 1/3 of a carriage set aside for moving larger items such as bikes, extra luggage or the possibility of moving small goods as other transport provision is low. (newspapers were still delivered on the first Inverness to Lairg train up until 1998-99 in the cylce space on 156's)

This stock could be procured for all West Highland, Far North, Many lines in Wales, Devon and Cornwall.

 

[MacCookie]

The main issue was these are so far apart it was not practical, such as Ayr - Stranraer, Fort William - Mallaig, Glasgow - Anniesland, and Cumbernauld - Motherwell

Interestingly, most of the units on those services are maintained in Glasgow. Works with 156s and would work with 153s.

And while you're right about TS and ScotRail having considered 153s, how they would be used and why they didn't get them is wrong.

Ewan
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

How would an HST split at Crianlarich?

Crianlarich is on the West Highland Line, not the Highland Mainline.

Ewan

 

[marks87]

Crianlarich is on the West Highland Line, not the Highland Mainline.

Ewan

D'oh, I saw "not suited" and "Highland" and WHL was what registered!