In the foreground, no - that's one of the old 321 spare bodies which has been at Doncaster since time immemorial (or at least 2012), and the LM liveried vehicle next to it is a spare trailer from one such conversion. The Scotrail coach is that thing right at the back, a white coach with a dark blue window band. To be fair if you weren't looking for it, you might assume it was a building, it does blend in a little bit.
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ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion
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Is the Mk3 sticking out of the bottom left in Dynamic Lines not destined for Scotrail? It doesn't look to be for GWR as it doesn't appear to have windows so could be a buffet which GWR are not having.
CC 72100
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Looks like a TGS to me - which GWR are having on their short sets, XC are retaining on theirs, but Scotrail aren't having them.
Ahh yes, thinking about it that is probably it. If you zoom right in you can see the wider 2 leaf door. That completely crossed my mind!
I know GWR are keeping those, I'm looking forward to the Mini HSTs entering squadron service as, I should be able to catch these rather than a DMU which we are accustomed to most of the day. Though it is much better nowadays with a 166 or 158. Though today a cattle truck 150/1 turned up.
Will miss the slam doors though and seeing the beusement of those who are not used to them and can't figure out how to open the doors.
Northhighland
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What is the reason for cab removal? Is that done to them all?
43096
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All the power cars going through Brush are having cabs removed. The cabs go away to a specialist contractor for inspection and repair to the GRP, and the soundplate/insulation under the cab is repaired/renewed.
overthewater
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Are there out in service? If not are scotrail test running them? One just went arcross the forth bridge into fife... in scotrail livery about 3mins of this post. There is 4 coaches and Two cab units. Not sure if its for via dunfermline or via kirkcaldy.
They are out doing driving training runs. Quite a few turns between Dundee and Haymarket and a few from Perth(?) to Inverness.
stuart
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Passed a set outside Haymarket depot earlier tonight, along with a pair of power cars. Two of the power cars in the new livery, I think, the rest in "de-branded" FGW. Also passed the Perth/Inverness training set at Dunkeld.
sprinterguy
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In terms of the mark 3s, the first set(s?) still in the process of being refurbished by Wabtec at Doncaster.
Scotrail appear to be in the same boat as GWR and Crosscountry in terms of delays to the mark 3 power door fitment programme - GWR having received only one four car set, and Crosscountry just a single vehicle for staff familiarisation at Craigentinny depot, despite their first set having gone in for conversion over a year ago and theoretically being first in the queue.
I'd be curious to get an update in fact on how many mark 3 sets (if more than one) are currently at Wabtec being refurbished for Scotrail, and how many power cars are currently with Scotrail - There must be a few HST sets destined for Scotrail off lease with GWR by now, surely, but it's not at all clear to me from the main thread what is where.
Scotrail appear to be in the same boat as GWR and Crosscountry in terms of delays to the mark 3 power door fitment programme - GWR having received only one four car set, and Crosscountry just a single vehicle for staff familiarisation at Craigentinny depot, despite their first set having gone in for conversion over a year ago and theoretically being first in the queue.
I'd be curious to get an update in fact on how many mark 3 sets (if more than one) are currently at Wabtec being refurbished for Scotrail, and how many power cars are currently with Scotrail - There must be a few HST sets destined for Scotrail off lease with GWR by now, surely, but it's not at all clear to me from the main thread what is where.
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Northhighland
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That looks like a situation that is out of control. Surely someone else can take on some of the work? Wabtec by now should have sorted resources out to provide some sort of programme certainty.
ScotRail have yet to get their first coaches. Apparently they have found serious rusty metal that needs to be done.
So the driver training sets are now overhauled power cars and yet to be done coaches.
Meanwhile the other bit of Wabtec in Kilmarnock don't seem to be too busy. However that's nothing new the EMUs go to Doncaster too.
Another RTT plan in for today from Ely to Craigentinny. Probably more coaches that still need to go for cricket nverstion.
Northhighland
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To be honest it can hardly be a surprise that they found corrosion on a 40 year old coach. Hardly an unforeseen risk. Still not really an excuse why none of the TOC's waiting for Wabtec have got anything like the output they were promised. Seems like something needs sorted out and get this work back on track. Scotrail were supposed to have units in service by now, not even a date for when the first one will enter service or any assurance the work is on any kind of delivery programme.
Are the Mark 4s compatible with HSTs (I'm presuming they are as I believe they ran together in testing) and if so, how soon will East Coast start receiving their IEPs and be in a position to release some? They're roughly 10 years younger than the Mark 3s.
there's ETH differences. Class 43s have an electrical system that only works with their dedicated fleet of modified MK3s. MK4s are "normal" so are incompatible with 43s. Considerable (=expensive) mods needed.
hexagon789
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Different ETS, different couplers.
the testing programme to which you refer was class 91 working with MK3 stock. Instead of a DVT an HST power car was used to provide ETH. Initially the HST power car only provided the hotel power but this arrangement proved problematical so supplied traction power too, with interesting performance with over 8000BHP available. There's plenty of information on this subject kicking about here and as always wikipedia is a good source of info.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
7,860 hp continuous (6,090 from the 91, 1,770 from the power car).
Mk4s have tightlock couplers except on the DVT and blank end of the TOE. A pair of Class 43s was used back-to-back to haul the Mk4s in testing netween York, Newcastle and Edinburgh.
I've learned something today.
hexagon789
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Both Surrogate DVTs I should add
scotraildriver
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I wonder though if it's any more expensive than the Mk3 conversions which are proving to be mighty expensive!
NotATrainspott
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Timing is the bigger problem. The Mk4s will be one of the last fleets to be replaced by new Hitachi trains. While they might not need so much work done to them, they won't be available until it's too late for most other services.
Power-door Mk3s would be immediately usable on more of the network. Once GWR/XC/ScotRail stops needing them, it'll be easier for them to end up filling the role the various fleets of Mk2/3 carriages do today as backup or spot-hire stock.
could it be that there were more MK3s available, and that they would be available sooner so get back into traffic sooner (allegedly)? Chiltern had the proven tried and tested mod for the MK3, first MK4 is still some way off.
scotraildriver
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Yes I know the mk3s were available sooner, it was the cost I was referring to. And the Chiltern Mk3s are irrelevant as ours are a new sliding door design, not plug like Chiltern. Every Chiltern coach has a bespoke door as each Mk3 coach was significantly different in terms of tolerances. The GWR/Cross Country and Scotrail doors are a totally different Design.
because of the manufacturing tolerances (lack of laser guided cutting jigs) when the MK3s were built each door is effectively bespoke. And of course 40 year old coaches with a bit of corrosion doesn't help.
They're late but not necessarily expensive. The suggestions I've heard for that are corrosion, teething troubles with the process, and shortage of qualified staff. Of those only the corrosion would be expensive once the line is up and running to the appropriate standard.
Either way, the timescales for Mark 4s to have some as yet unplanned work done on them in 6 months or so, and then a whole load of new staff training done on them doesn't really bear thinking about.
read fully before replying- suitably chastised.
Choice between ETH conversion equipment in each MK4 coach or modify each 43 to provide. Either way expensive.
one has to wonder why the work was taken on in the knowledge they were not staffed up for it.
Natural assumption is that the extra work required means more staff needed to complete the work in the same time.
It's the old: "If it takes three men two days, how long does it take six men?"
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