ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[brel york]

Really? As recent discussion is about delays, i'm pretty sure the conversion work was delayed as well.

And the mk 3 interior pics on my page were of the xcountry sets , the other pics are one of the east coast hst

 

[Class313:)]

since when were EC hsts getting accesibility treatment

 

[brel york]

Lol the east coast hst were fully refurbished at wabtec , to bring them into line with the mallard interior on the mk 4 this started in 2006 it took three years , during the back end of 2008 they also started refurbishing the 5 rakes for x country , they did an east coast hst at the same time as the loco hauled vehicles were getting converted into hst cars , the last two rakes of x country were already hst stock so just got the refurb , no large disabled toilet fitted as they had a sort of disabled toilet , now the square toilet isn’t prm compliant so is been taken out of use and a bigger toilet is going in

 

[43096]

Right. Are you sitting comfortably?
Then we'll begin.

The Mk3 stock used by HST rakes (i.e. coaches numbered in the 4xxxx series) are equipped without buffers at each end, and feature a 3-phase electrical supply for the "hotel power" (that is to say, onboard systems).
Conventional Mk3 loco-hauled stock (aka Mk3a/b etc.) has single-phase ETS, and buffers at each end of the vehicle (be it a coach or a DVT); the same applies for the Mk4 fleet.
Rewiring each Mk4 coach to take a new power supply would be incredibly prohibitive cost-wise, as every single millimetre of wire would have to be replaced. Likewise, rewiring the HST power cars to produce ETH that Mk4s can accept would also drive the cost up further still.

So, in echo of what @route:oxford said before I had the chance to finish:

Yes, if money and large quantities of man-hours are no object...which basically implies no.

But in the case of the LHCS Mark 3s the auxiliaries basically run on 415V three-phase AC, just as with an HST vehicle. Just the way the three phase is supplied differs: on an HST it comes from the power car alternator; on a LHCS vehicle it's from the motor-alternator* (which generates 415V AC), which is powered off the ETH supply.

Now, Mark 4s have static converters - I assume the auxiliaries run off 415V three-phase AC in a similar way, but am not 100% certain. If that is the case, it may be possible to feed them direct from the power car supply. That has the benefit of removing weight (static converters) and taking a potential source of unreliability out. What is your source for saying every single mm of wire would need replacing, because that sounds like hyperbole?


* Chiltern's rebuilt Mark 3s have static converters in place of the MA sets.

 

[Class313:)]

I am officially lost but think its unlikely that all the wire would need replacing.

 

[Class313:)]

Lol the east coast hst were fully refurbished at wabtec , to bring them into line with the mallard interior on the mk 4 this started in 2006 it took three years , during the back end of 2008 they also started refurbishing the 5 rakes for x country , they did an east coast hst at the same time as the loco hauled vehicles were getting converted into hst cars , the last two rakes of x country were already hst stock so just got the refurb , no large disabled toilet fitted as they had a sort of disabled toilet , now the square toilet isn’t prm compliant so is been taken out of use and a bigger toilet is going in

I meant a refurb to become 2020 accessibilty compliant (plug doors)

 

[brel york]

That’s been abandoned, we were looking at doing it for them in the new renatus shop but it’s not happening as far as we know

 

[Class313:)]

Renatus? HST? since when were those two terms ever related. Only renatus ive ever seen is a cl. 321

 

[brel york]

We tendered for the east coast hst , the plan was to do them when the renatus project finishes , the plan was to use the new shop that was built to fit out the renatus

 

[brel york]

These things aren’t related in your world but in wabtec world everything has a knock on effect

 

[Class313:)]

I see. One more question: why did the ec hsts even need accessibility treatment as they're going in 2019

 

[brel york]

Angel looked at it and we tendered , they changed their minds .
That’s why the plan was to do it in the new shop but heaven knows when the renatus will finish

 

[Class313:)]

OK. I think I get it

 

[brel york]

Lol we are asked to tender for all sorts of weird and wonderful ideas

 

[brel york]

A new workshop was built to fit out the renatus as we had no capacity left

 

[brel york]

Something has got to go in there when renatus finally finishes

 

[Class313:)]

So now you guys have a spanking new workshop but nothing to put in it

 

[brel york]

Yeah princess Anne opened it a few years back , tied it in with a visit to Doncaster races , someone at Eversholt made it happen , rumour is Eversholt put some money up for the building

 

[route101]

HST stabled in Platform 0 at Haymarket today .

 

[hwl]

OK...getting mixed responses. So would it be more expensive to adapt HST powers for use with mk4s, or to refurb Mk3s to 2020 accessibility standards

Easier and cheaper to modify the power cars these days

 

[boabt]

I think the lack of cycle spots on the HSTs was commented on a while back. Originally there was only going to be 2 spots available for intermediate stops and 6 for end to end.
I hear Scotrail have now committed to 4 spots (minimum) for intermediate stops.

 

[Highland37]

Abellio said a minimum of 20 (overall) so ten is hardly the best but not as bad as some of the forecasts.

 

[superalbs]

Have just seen a few pics in the Facebook "Railway Photography Group" of a ScotRail Class 43 in what seems to be the finished livery.

Numbers are in same location as on a FGW power car.

Mostly identical to the renders we've seen, can't quite see the headlights, so hopefully they've kept the new ones.

There has been an addition of new branding in the form of an INTER7CITY logo, and it looks the business.

So despite the white base, I think it has come out quite well.

 

[XCTurbostar]

As superalbs said, the new livery looks stunning. I can’t help thinking that maybe the images have deliberately left the headlights off?

 

[superalbs]

As superalbs said, the new livery looks stunning. I can’t help thinking that maybe the images have deliberately left the headlights off?

I'm thinking that too, considering how close they get to showing it, looks quite deliberate.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I want it to have the old headlight clusters. They look better and were originally fitted to the 43's unlike the bug eye's currently fitted.

 

[ScottDarg]

Have just seen a few pics in the Facebook "Railway Photography Group" of a ScotRail Class 43 in what seems to be the finished livery.

Numbers are in same location as on a FGW power car.

Mostly identical to the renders we've seen, can't quite see the headlights, so hopefully they've kept the new ones.

There has been an addition of new branding in the form of an INTER7CITY logo, and it looks the business.

So despite the white base, I think it has come out quite well.

An (the?) image has made its way to Twitter too: https://twitter.com/FirstGW_00/status/961718967625830400

*Not my photo*
Our HSTs in their new life with Scotrail. Looking, actually, really nice in that livery. Obviously I prefer them in FGW blue heading out of Paddington but times are changing! https://t.co/4b1Cv5P9Bw

 

[XCTurbostar]

Thats it. There was a video as well but it shows the same detail.

 

[43096]

I want it to have the old headlight clusters. They look better and were originally fitted to the 43's unlike the bug eye's currently fitted.

Not going to happen. The new lights are much better than the old at the job they are meant for, so why would you go backwards?

 

[Clansman]

No reason for anyone to hide the headlights given they've been completed. This should settle the concerns and conspiracy theories: