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Scotrail Franchise - Abellio
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I am surprised that so many folks on here so readily attach no blame or criticism to Abellio, for very much, but perhaps as Rail enthusiasts your detailed knowledge of the industry, the fine detail allows you identify the manufacturer solely at fault, time will tell. As to absolving our Politicians and their civil servants in TS , that is bewildering . As a passenger, we can only blame the rail operator , "unlucky" or not. They do seem unlucky , but do we want unlucky people running Scotlands railway? I take the view you make your own "luck" its called risk assessment. In a project this complex and that a first of class prototype would be on time glitch free is perhaps a leap of faith . As passengers we can ONLY blame the operator and those in Government . They can seek recourse from Hitachi if they have a case in law.
Moving the subject , but not the point of insufficient understanding of transport projects and hence political blame. TS/Scot Gov will be under scrutiny shortly on the new first of class car ferries for CalMac being built at Port Glasgow , now late , build quality issues , and port infrastructure not right for the boat built to serve the route . That contract has Scottish politics all over it . No escaping that unfolding transport pr disaster as the implications unfold !
I never said it was their fault, but it’s happening under their franchise, and they’re not exactly blameless. They had no possible alternative ready.
Skip-stopping is happening more under the current franchise, as is short-forming.
They have also made, and are proposing, some very bizarre timetable changes without taking into account passenger numbers.
Tell me they have absolutely no blame for any of that?
Skip stopping is happening more partly because TS have specified undeliverable increases in service frequency, and partly because as a result of the move to right-time-railway it is becoming the "correct" way to handle delays across the rail network. The same is happening in the Great Northern area and SWR for example, according to other threads on this site. No other operator would be acting differently
For what it's worth I don't really absolve TS for the blame. They need to be a more informed consumer, and if anything have worked quite hard over the last ten years at being *less* so.
As to "Abellio should have taken test units and had contingency plans", these units are already arriving months late, and a significant amount of contingency has been used up. If there had been any more in the contract then Abellio would have lost. TS mandated corridor ends, and because of the current market corridor ends meant new-design stock with lots of compromises in the cabs. If we had a national operator including Scotland then the cascade would just not be happening, but since we have the structure we do there has to be limit drawn somewhere.
cf111
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Is this the class which is due to operate the Uig-Tarbert-Lochmaddy triangle?
cj_1985
Member
I happen to agree that TC/ASR should have had a back up plan. But frankly, why TS/ASR didn't liase with the drivers union at the design stage... so as to avoid these cock ups
Yes ,, think the second ship is earmarked for that route , but the immediate issue is the Glen Sannox and her suitability for the Arran route she was built for I understand , she is certainly well behind schedule as it stands and given the Govt has not ordered much new tonnage of larger boats for so long , the ability to keep the older boats going reliably gets worse each year .
Altnabreac
Established Member
The delay to Glen Sannox is certainly real and the innovative specification of LNG fuel does perhaps have some parallels to the 385 Cab Window issue - challenging spec but ultimately manufacturer will have to deliver.
The port suitability issues are less clear and its hard to untangle where the truth lies as the Conservative's North Ayrshire council motion suggesting inability of Glen Sannox to work to Ardrossan seems to be influenced by John Scott MSP's continued lobbying on behalf of Troon.
Quite apart from the loss of the Ardrossan Harbour rail link that a move to Troon would have no one has ever explained to me how a much longer ferry journey is going to be compatible with adding capacity to a very busy route so I'm extremely sceptical that anything associated with the Troon bid is to be trusted as regards the suitability of Ardrossan as a port, especially when we still best part of a year away from the Ferry being ready so difficult to know if there is any truth to the scaremongering at all.
Most of which is off topic anyway!
I can see no sense in the Troon bid as you say .
My sources are not politically driven or politically interested.
But as you say , time will tell.
cf111
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Thank you. I asked as this is the only CalMac route (well, Uig-Lochmaddy) that I am likely to travel on with any regularity.
I don't think you need worry. No suggestion that the new boat won't fit your ports . Just delayed in deliver and you have a good service now. Your exposure is the fleet is old and so any breakdown will impact anywhere in the network. Great company calmac. Just a shame they have not had new tonnage earlier.
Northhighland
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Great Company if you don't count what they cost. There is nothing transparent about the murky world of calmac subsidy.
Read an article about new shape of a future franchise said that not for profit organisations could run services this is a worrying thing as who exactly are these organisations ? This seems typical of Edinboroughs muddled thinking on many topics surely only properly qualified operators could run trains.
NotATrainspott
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CalMac is slightly different to ScotRail because the assets are owned by the government. Therefore, it's easier to blame ministers if something does go wrong with their design. The 385s are being ordered through a standard ROSCO process, meaning there's a strong commercial incentive to go for a safe and easy design. It's not like the essence of what the ScotRail ITT asked for was a bad idea - it clearly was asking for a 380-alike with carpets and first class.
Not for profit organisations could be run by anyone (Branson has even offered it in the past). One problem is that they don't make any profit, so companies aren't that keen to do so. Another problem is that companies that do run them can just set whatever costs they like to the not for profit.
As an example I could run a bit for profit, yet I'm still entitled to be paid for my services. As such I could still take a salary of £250,000 a year, which although may not be as tax efficient as being paid dividends could still see me have the same cash in the bank. The company hasn't made any profit, yet I'm still taking a nice amount of money out of the business.
Alternatively I could employ "Ham's catering LLP" to provide the onboard catering for Ham's Rail which is the first not for profit rail franchise who had promised to reinvest any profit they make into providing new services and improving the existing rolling stock. Unfortunately for the non profit business the catering company seem to be charging a lot for there services, so much so that there's no profit to reinvest into the non profit so sorry no new services or improvements to rolling stock. On the plus side, owning 75% of Ham's catering LLP (10% is owned by my wife and the last 5% by my children) means that I get a rather nice divided payout each year and my children's savings go up quite nicely (probably enough that they won't need a mortgage to buy their first house by the end of the franchise, not that they need it but they could rent it out for a few years until they do).
Due to being a private company Ham Rail can tender to whoever they like and to ensure that they don't fall foul of any rules about contracts being over a certain value they split down the catering jobs to individual groups of services (i.e. the big town stoppers are one contact are one whilst the semi fasts are another). However in doing so the bigger companies aren't able to offer the benefits of economics of scale and so aren't interested or charge a lot for each.
Ham Catering don't really want to provide the catering and so just contact it out to someone else in one big contact (getting the economy of scale from the big boys) and cream off the difference.
Yes there will be some bad press if it comes to light, but that's fine as I'll be in one of my many homes somewhere with nice weather and I'll issue an apology and promise to give some money (which will appear to be a large amount but in reality is nothing compared to what I've earned from the franchise, maybe that £250,000 that I was paid as a salary from the franchise for the first year, but still leaving me with 6 years of salary plus the profits from the catering company) to the charity of choice if the masses at that time. Most people will forget about and I'll be free to move into my next rail franchise.
If I were being really devious there'd be another few layers so that it was harder to find out exactly how much money I'd actually received.
ScottDarg
Member
Firstly, here's the eligibility criteria:
https://www.scotrail.co.uk/million
If eligible, you'll be told what your share is on the 26th according to that page.
I’d like to know roughly how many smart card holders there are.
I got £89 towards my next season ticket. Saw a couple of other people on Twitter with the same amount too.
If it’s a simple split and everyone got the same share, then it suggests that there were almost 11,236 smartcards with season tickets active on the eligibility date. Seems quite a low number considering the publicity and special smart card fares (e.g. seasons loyalty discount / super smart off peak).
From listening to Ticket Examiners at my depot it seems lots of smart card users are returning to paper weekly and season tickets due to the high failure rate of the smartcard technology. Seems Abellio went for the cheapest kit available for implementing the smart travel scheme. The oyster card system is what should have been bought amd introduced by Transport Scotland as a multi mode travel card.
Abellio signed up to a contract with TS and are now expected to deliver it. The contract would I am sure have included the procurement, testing and delivery of the 385's I doubt very much that TS would have mandated corridor ends and even if they had then it would have been negotiable during the bid phase. as for skip stopping it has its place in operating a right time railway. However when it becomes the easy option then passengers have a right to question its validity and appropriateness.
In fairness the Oyster system is a basket case - not initially compatible with the national ITSO specifications for smartcards, it had to be updated... Transport Scotland do have some blame, since there has been talk of a national smartcard for years without any real progress. You can load Glasgow Subway and Scotrail tickets on each other's cards, but that's a limited picture. You also have the private bus companies in Glasgow ignoring TS and SPT to issue their own joint smartcard (the area of which doesn't even reach the end of their networks...) so it's all a huge debacle.
You don't see this in Europe, since ticketing is generally still done by cities and regional government, which is exactly the problem here - there's no enforceable democratic oversight of transport in this country any more.
Yes I received £89 too which is not bad considering my weekly season ticket cost £21.
Bit difficult, seeing as it was launched in 2012, 3 years before they got the franchise. Its another Transport Scotland screw-up. Still doesnt cover ALL TOCs (though I believe it now includes Virgin East Coast?) and doesnt cover all ticket types (eg PlusBus) and of course, you cant use the same card to load on bus travel tickets.
Regardless of the problems of Oyster, you can but admire the power and flexibility of the Oyster system - and that was available a decade or more ago.
Smart cards were launched prior to Abellio, but the on train staff equipment ie; the ticket issuing kit and tech to check smart cards was launched by Abellio in late 2015 early 2016. And most users consider it to be a pile of rubbish that is not fit for purpose.
My experience is that they are not reliable for purchasing singles or returns.
After my card failed again on a return journey saying the ticket 'was not yet valid' staff let me travel - with one minor argument connecting at GQS where I was asked to show a copy of the email - which I didn't have - but was let through 'just this once' after pointing out the stuipidity of being expected to carry a paper copy of the ticket loaded on the card .
My view is that for single journeys the smart card system is broken and I don't trust it. You're left with a ticket that may or may not be valid for travel and to the mercy of the discretion of on train staff and gate staff en-route.
I'm going back to paper tickets.
The old Thyron card reader could also read the Smartcard, taking around 1 minute.
Admittedly I don’t use it that much (My season is Edinburgh to Newcastle so it’s still paper) but almost all my ScotRail travel is singles or returns on the smartcard and the only issue I’ve had was the reader at Polmont not activating the start of journey although I was able to do it on the ticket machine.
Realistically the gate line should have access to some device or system that can physically see what’s loaded to a smartcard. You shouldn’t have to provided printouts or emails, you have in theory presented a valid ticket, it’s up to them to prove it’s not valid imo.
One thing I have noticed over the last couple of journeys is the guard just nods or gives you the thumbs up when you show the smartcard.
Also there is still no reader on P12 at Waverley or if there is the two guys at the entrance to the platform last night just waved me through when I showed them the smartcard.
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