Scotrail Franchise - Abellio

[Sadsmileyface]

The lack of honesty or perhaps accuracy in the performance figures on the Dunblane service and I suspect on other services is in my view an indication we have a train operator and transport Scotland firmly in the Dock together

I have recorded my rail use over 2 months accurately. I take the arrival time as the point the train arrives at the platform which is the only measure of arrival. It seems ScotRail and transport Scotland use another criteria. ?

My accurate statistics provided to ScotRail and transport Scotland reveal. Of 63 train journeys. Just 8 were on time. 25 within 5mins late. That's 40 percent. Scotrail claim it's circa 90 percent. 60 percent of my trains are cancelled or more than 5 mins late. That's even allowing for the massaging of the timetable which adds another 4 mins between Bridge of Allen and Dunblane on the return leg compared to outward. So they build in more mins to distort the stats. Scotrail performance criteria are apparently the same as in the U.K. Well given the state of public satisfaction of rail performance in the U.K. Hardly a bench mark to follow.

158 refurb are welcome but flakey. Seat cushions detaching already heating still seems unchanged ?

But they just don't know what clean should look like. Traveling public don't help with the littering. But for heavens sake. Get rid of the metro newspaper. Just abandoned rubbish. !

No response to my findings from scotrail. I was assured a detailed reply , transport Scotland reply in technical jargon and fail to answer the points. They even seem unaware the on board ticket machines don't work well. I wonder if they ever use a train to be honest !

100% of the planes I have been on have not crashed. Therefore, no planes have ever crashed. Anyone who says otherwise is massaging the figures.


I do not think you understand how measuring works.

 

[Mingulay]

I have an inkling you will tell me. I recorded the arrival time of the train at the point it arrived at the destination platform. Which I would think for the customer would be a reasonable measure of a trains arrival. Over 2 months 60% of my trains were more than 5 mins late or cancelled

That is not counting trains that were late at every stop often up to 10 mins. But due to the wee bit extra mins added between Bridge of Allen and Dunblane which is explained for safety etc it sneaks in at the destination just 5 mins late. But for all intents and purposes for most users of that train it was 10 min late. I didn't count those as late.

What is important is the customers perception of punctuality based on their experience in use. Not what the rail industry tell us is the measure of punctuality.

You are right tho. I have not timed every train movement in the network. Just my use. The evidence from experience is I think pretty convincing that train punctuality figures do not match passengers experiences on my service.

 

[Altnabreac]

I have an inkling you will tell me. I recorded the arrival time of the train at the point it arrived at the destination platform. Which I would think for the customer would be a reasonable measure of a trains arrival. Over 2 months 60% of my trains were more than 5 mins late or cancelled

That is not counting trains that were late at every stop often up to 10 mins. But due to the wee bit extra mins added between Bridge of Allen and Dunblane which is explained for safety etc it sneaks in at the destination just 5 mins late. But for all intents and purposes for most users of that train it was 10 min late. I didn't count those as late.

What is important is the customers perception of punctuality based on their experience in use. Not what the rail industry tell us is the measure of punctuality.

You are right tho. I have not timed every train movement in the network. Just my use. The evidence from experience is I think pretty convincing that train punctuality figures do not match passengers experiences on my service.

So let's carry out a thought experiment. You are presumably a Monday - Friday commuter travelling in peak hours in the peak flow direction Dunblane - Edinburgh rather than the reverse direction.

The punctuality figures for a route are calculated based on 5 minute on time arrival across a Monday - Sunday average all day.

In peak hours the railways run a number of additional services to provide additional capacity for peak flow commuters, in the western throat at Edinburgh I think there are around 4tph extra in the peak arrival 8am to 9am:
8 arrivals 8.00am to 9.00am from Fife / Dundee as opposed to 7tph off peak
4 arrivals 8.00am to 9.00am from Shotts / Carstairs as opposed to 2-3tph off peak
3 arrivals 8.00am to 9.00am from Dunblane as opposed to 2tph off peak

These extra services will necessarily reduce reliability and increase delays. But they are necessary to ensure peak flow commuters get a seat.

Equally as peak flow commuting trains are likely to be busier than other services there is also likely to be an increased dwell time at station calls. This can also reduce reliability and increase delays.

So it isn't unreasonable to expect that the published percentage of delays on a route would be a lower figure than delays measured purely on peak time arrivals and departures by a weekday peak flow commuter. There is unlikely to be a major conspiracy to fix the numbers but merely logical explanations as to why the service you experience may be worse than the average service performance.

Now you also acknowledge that there is a multi-million pound investment under way to decrease journey times and increase reliability for rail travellers. The £750m EGIP project scope is driven by the need to provide that additional capacity needed for peak flow commuters in peak flow direction as that is the time when the network capacity is most stretched. Lets think about where this money is coming from?

Peak time commuters also enjoy some of the lowest costs per journey of any rail traveller as the generous discounts on annual season tickets mean their costs are much reduced on a per journey basis. As the rail industry in Scotland does not fully cover the costs of running the trains and maintaining the track this means that the investment for these upgrades must come from general taxation instead of from the peak time commuter's fare.

There is good evidence out there that both commuter rail usage and commute distance strongly correlate to social class and wealth with longer distance commuted and use of rail for commuting both being indicators of relative wealth. You can therefore make a reasonable case that using general taxation funding for rail improvements that are only required to facilitate long distance commuting is a regressive use of public funds that leads to working class taxpayers subsidising the rich who choose to live in leafy Dunblane.

Thankfully in Scotland we do not have many politicians pushing this line and there is a wide recognition of the wider benefits of rail commuting in environmental, economic growth and social mobility that counter this view but it is certainly not a political guarantee that money should automatically be spent enabling long distance commuting like Dunblane - Edinburgh. Instead you could choose to promote shorter distance commuting by increasing services from areas closer to Edinburgh and raising prices for longer commutes to reduce peak demand and decrease the need for investment in extra capacity. This price increases for areas with capacity issues was a mechanism often used by British Rail to avoid need for capacity enhancements by pricing commuters off trains.

It's just worth remembering that as a peak time, long distance rail commuter you are the person who is causing the capacity problems and the fare you pay is not covering the cost of the service you are receiving or contributing to the investment in Naetwork Improvements. Personally I'm glad that other taxpayers like me are subsidising you as I believe there is a societal benefit for us all from increased rail commuting but this balance is dependent on politicians continuing to think it is politically worthwhile investing in rail. A constant barrage of political negativity towards those involved in rail investment programmes will not help to support the political consensus for further development of rail services in Scotland.

So by all means continue to hold organisations to account (especially where they are actually the organisation responsible) but the wilder allegations of dishonesty, conspiracy, incompetence and neglect are playground stuff that doesn't reflect the complex reality of trying to increase investment in rail and securing long term improvements through investment in new rolling stock, infrastructure improvements and organisational change.

 

[Ginaro]

I have an inkling you will tell me. I recorded the arrival time of the train at the point it arrived at the destination platform. Which I would think for the customer would be a reasonable measure of a trains arrival. Over 2 months 60% of my trains were more than 5 mins late or cancelled

That is not counting trains that were late at every stop often up to 10 mins. But due to the wee bit extra mins added between Bridge of Allen and Dunblane which is explained for safety etc it sneaks in at the destination just 5 mins late. But for all intents and purposes for most users of that train it was 10 min late. I didn't count those as late.

What is important is the customers perception of punctuality based on their experience in use. Not what the rail industry tell us is the measure of punctuality.

You are right tho. I have not timed every train movement in the network. Just my use. The evidence from experience is I think pretty convincing that train punctuality figures do not match passengers experiences on my service.

Maybe have a look at http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/DBL/ to see if the "official" times match your records?

(Does anyone know what DPV means in the platform column and why not there's no platform numbers for Dunblane?)

 

[Mingulay]

So let's carry out a thought experiment. You are presumably a Monday - Friday commuter travelling in peak hours in the peak flow direction Dunblane - Edinburgh rather than the reverse direction.

The punctuality figures for a route are calculated based on 5 minute on time arrival across a Monday - Sunday average all day.

In peak hours the railways run a number of additional services to provide additional capacity for peak flow commuters, in the western throat at Edinburgh I think there are around 4tph extra in the peak arrival 8am to 9am:
8 arrivals 8.00am to 9.00am from Fife / Dundee as opposed to 7tph off peak
4 arrivals 8.00am to 9.00am from Shotts / Carstairs as opposed to 2-3tph off peak
3 arrivals 8.00am to 9.00am from Dunblane as opposed to 2tph off peak

These extra services will necessarily reduce reliability and increase delays. But they are necessary to ensure peak flow commuters get a seat.

Equally as peak flow commuting trains are likely to be busier than other services there is also likely to be an increased dwell time at station calls. This can also reduce reliability and increase delays.

So it isn't unreasonable to expect that the published percentage of delays on a route would be a lower figure than delays measured purely on peak time arrivals and departures by a weekday peak flow commuter. There is unlikely to be a major conspiracy to fix the numbers but merely logical explanations as to why the service you experience may be worse than the average service performance.

Now you also acknowledge that there is a multi-million pound investment under way to decrease journey times and increase reliability for rail travellers. The £750m EGIP project scope is driven by the need to provide that additional capacity needed for peak flow commuters in peak flow direction as that is the time when the network capacity is most stretched. Lets think about where this money is coming from?

Peak time commuters also enjoy some of the lowest costs per journey of any rail traveller as the generous discounts on annual season tickets mean their costs are much reduced on a per journey basis. As the rail industry in Scotland does not fully cover the costs of running the trains and maintaining the track this means that the investment for these upgrades must come from general taxation instead of from the peak time commuter's fare.

There is good evidence out there that both commuter rail usage and commute distance strongly correlate to social class and wealth with longer distance commuted and use of rail for commuting both being indicators of relative wealth. You can therefore make a reasonable case that using general taxation funding for rail improvements that are only required to facilitate long distance commuting is a regressive use of public funds that leads to working class taxpayers subsidising the rich who choose to live in leafy Dunblane.

Thankfully in Scotland we do not have many politicians pushing this line and there is a wide recognition of the wider benefits of rail commuting in environmental, economic growth and social mobility that counter this view but it is certainly not a political guarantee that money should automatically be spent enabling long distance commuting like Dunblane - Edinburgh. Instead you could choose to promote shorter distance commuting by increasing services from areas closer to Edinburgh and raising prices for longer commutes to reduce peak demand and decrease the need for investment in extra capacity. This price increases for areas with capacity issues was a mechanism often used by British Rail to avoid need for capacity enhancements by pricing commuters off trains.

It's just worth remembering that as a peak time, long distance rail commuter you are the person who is causing the capacity problems and the fare you pay is not covering the cost of the service you are receiving or contributing to the investment in Naetwork Improvements. Personally I'm glad that other taxpayers like me are subsidising you as I believe there is a societal benefit for us all from increased rail commuting but this balance is dependent on politicians continuing to think it is politically worthwhile investing in rail. A constant barrage of political negativity towards those involved in rail investment programmes will not help to support the political consensus for further development of rail services in Scotland.

So by all means continue to hold organisations to account (especially where they are actually the organisation responsible) but the wilder allegations of dishonesty, conspiracy, incompetence and neglect are playground stuff that doesn't reflect the complex reality of trying to increase investment in rail and securing long term improvements through investment in new rolling stock, infrastructure improvements and organisational change.

Thank you for your explanation. For sure peak time pressures are there, but for most commuters its those trains punctuality that count most .

As for extra trains "ensure peak flow get a seat" Thats not remotely the case , but that is a capacity issue being addressed.

Goodness me!. You are making some rash assumptions and passing comment on my social status and wealth. "rich leafy Dunblane". I will share that my fellow working class Dunblane commuters lol! . And thank you for subsidising my commute, if that is the case . You raise some big issues and valid ones on who pays for what . In Scotland the top 15% of earners pay 55% of the tax raised . Possibly more now as the Scottish Govt have reasonably taxed higher earners. But that is as it should in our progressive tax regime . So the question of who is subsidising who is a bit more complex than just rail fares for commuters to towns like Stirling and Dunblane you class a rich .

Im very much in the camp to campaign for those who can pay more should pay more for better public services wisely spent , including rail . I certainly have nothing but contempt for those who duck tax and would deny and indeed strip Knighthoods from those not obeying the spirit and letter of the law , including a certain train franchise operator .

I hope we share common ground in hoping for a better railway , but clearly you take issue with my views and suspicions , but please do not try to pigeon hole me or my politics by where i live . That is "playground" stuff! But I fully accept your point it is complex and more complex than i had thought . So thank you for enlightening me . Its what I joined the forum for .

 

[Altnabreac]

Thank you for your explanation. For sure peak time pressures are there, but for most commuters its those trains punctuality that count most .

As for extra trains "ensure peak flow get a seat" Thats not remotely the case , but that is a capacity issue being addressed.

Goodness me!. You are making some rash assumptions and passing comment on my social status and wealth. "rich leafy Dunblane". I will share that my fellow working class Dunblane commuters lol! . And thank you for subsidising my commute, if that is the case . You raise some big issues and valid ones on who pays for what . In Scotland the top 15% of earners pay 55% of the tax raised . Possibly more now as the Scottish Govt have reasonably taxed higher earners. But that is as it should in our progressive tax regime . So the question of who is subsidising who is a bit more complex than just rail fares for commuters to towns like Stirling and Dunblane you class a rich .

Im very much in the camp to campaign for those who can pay more should pay more for better public services wisely spent , including rail . I certainly have nothing but contempt for those who duck tax and would deny and indeed strip Knighthoods from those not obeying the spirit and letter of the law , including a certain train franchise operator .

I hope we share common ground in hoping for a better railway , but clearly you take issue with my views and suspicions , but please do not try to pigeon hole me or my politics by where i live . That is "playground" stuff! But I fully accept your point it is complex and more complex than i had thought . So thank you for enlightening me . Its what I joined the forum for .

Again you can argue that peak time punctuality might be a valuable thing to measure and lobby Scotrail / Transport Scotland to add that to their monitoring systems, but that is different from measuring peak time punctuality yourself and then accusing them of faking statistics when you compare the peak to the overall punctuality.

As you surmise I don't believe that rail investment should be stopped because it helps those in "Leafy" Dunblane but it would be a reasonable political position that one could take. Either way it is unarguable that Dunblane is a community with relatively little deprivation. Seven out of eleven datazones in Dunblane are in the least deprived decile on SIMD, while three are in the low deprivation deciles seven, eight and nine respectively. It is only the single datazone around the old council scheme west of the station that has any level of deprivation and even then it just sneaks into the 5th decile, making it very much around the Scottish average rather than anywhere near a high level of deprivation.

I'm just trying to get you to think about the political and economic pressures around rail funding and how lobbying politicians can help or hinder that process. As a rule I tend to think it is more productive to support politicians making investment even if the process of investment brings short term disruption. Others preferences may of course vary.

 

[Fleetwood Boy]

According to the published statistics (I know these have been disputed by Mr Mingulay), Dunblane enjoyed 79% of all terminating trains arriving within 59 seconds of their scheduled time over the 12 months to February 2018, which was among one of the best results in the country. Admittedly, that value falls to 69% when through services are included, so presumably the performance of longer-distance services is significantly poorer than the "terminators". My own local station doesn't feature, but choosing a nearby one on the same line, I only "enjoy" 58% on-time performance. Which is strange, because my genuine perception is that my service is generally OK, and much better than implied by the stats.

 

[Mingulay]

Again you can argue that peak time punctuality might be a valuable thing to measure and lobby Scotrail / Transport Scotland to add that to their monitoring systems, but that is different from measuring peak time punctuality yourself and then accusing them of faking statistics when you compare the peak to the overall punctuality.

As you surmise I don't believe that rail investment should be stopped because it helps those in "Leafy" Dunblane but it would be a reasonable political position that one could take. Either way it is unarguable that Dunblane is a community with relatively little deprivation. Seven out of eleven datazones in Dunblane are in the least deprived decile on SIMD, while three are in the low deprivation deciles seven, eight and nine respectively. It is only the single datazone around the old council scheme west of the station that has any level of deprivation and even then it just sneaks into the 5th decile, making it very much around the Scottish average rather than anywhere near a high level of deprivation.

I'm just trying to get you to think about the political and economic pressures around rail funding and how lobbying politicians can help or hinder that process. As a rule I tend to think it is more productive to support politicians making investment even if the process of investment brings short term disruption. Others preferences may of course vary.

You certainly have got me thinking!

I cant imagine Dunblane is socially/economically radically different from Linlithgow, are they free loaders too ? ( just joking)

Certainly we need investment in many areas. After this snow/freeze , the roads are going to be like the Himalayas . Is that Transport Scotland / Humza again ??? Ill get right on to him !

 

[Altnabreac]

You certainly have got me thinking!

I cant imagine Dunblane is socially/economically radically different from Linlithgow, are they free loaders too ? ( just joking)

Certainly we need investment in many areas. After this snow/freeze , the roads are going to be like the Himalayas . Is that Transport Scotland / Humza again ??? Ill get right on to him !

Well it depends on which Road! Humza / TS is responsible for operation of the Trunk Road Network, Keith Brown / TS is responsible for construction / delivery of major road projects while Angela Constance and Kevin Stewart have responsibility for Local Government funding so would be the people within Scottish Government to criticise with regard to any local roads network issues.

 

[Altnabreac]

You certainly have got me thinking!

I cant imagine Dunblane is socially/economically radically different from Linlithgow, are they free loaders too ? ( just joking)

You're quite right of course, Linlithgow has a very similar deprivation profile to Dunblane with only two moderately deprived datazones in the town centre with any level of deprivation. Bridgend and Bo'ness do have some genuine deprivation issues however and are very much part of the wider Linlithgow station demand area so that is a slight difference from Dunblane.

 

[Stopper]

I’ve travelled on that extra fast Dunblane train between Edinburgh and Bridge of Allan in the evening and it’s far busier than the normal service, understandably.

I commute between Linlithgow and Edinburgh and you’re very unlikely to get a seat on the Dunblane services, definitely not between Haymarket and Linlithgow. It always seems like it’s one of the first to get canned, or delayed, in any sort of disruption. Unlike the Glasgow shuttle, the Dunblane service is sometimes held back to let late running North Clyde Electrics cross/leave Newbridge Junction. A couple of times in the (very long ago) past it has been looped to let Glasgow shuttle fly past.

It’s the general opinion of a quite a few Linlithgow commuters that the Dunblane service is best avoided for a number of reasons. It stops at Edinburgh Park, always seems to trundle along slowly and it can range from a single 158 to a 5-car 158+170, but it’s mostly on the shorter side sadly.

The Dunblane services should improve with the Class 385s, and a reduced journey time of 10 minutes. Also factor in that probably around half of the Dunblane train passengers get on/off at Linlithgow and Polmont, which have been bizarrely dropped from the service. You’re guaranteed a seat on that service after that happens.

 

[route:oxford]

There is good evidence out there that both commuter rail usage and commute distance strongly correlate to social class and wealth with longer distance commuted and use of rail for commuting both being indicators of relative wealth. You can therefore make a reasonable case that using general taxation funding for rail improvements that are only required to facilitate long distance commuting is a regressive use of public funds that leads to working class taxpayers subsidising the rich who choose to live in leafy Dunblane.

Or perhaps correlates to a dreadful bus service that can take 5x longer? The Citylink service, which only takes twice as long as the train costs £6.80 return from Dunblane to Stirling by comparison to the £4.80/£3.60 of the peak/off peak train.

Are the substantial numbers of passengers who drive from Callander, Doune, Deanston, Braco, Greenloaning, Crieff, Blackford and some from Auchterarder to use Dunblane as a rail head also problematic for the left wing?

But hey-ho. As you mock Dunblane residents for their aspirations to have a decent rail service, the First Minister, having been thrown out the matriominal home, is shacked up in a suite in the Caledonian Waldorf Astoria on Princes Street and is chauffered along Princes Street to work.

 

[Mingulay]

I’ve travelled on that extra fast Dunblane train between Edinburgh and Bridge of Allan in the evening and it’s far busier than the normal service, understandably.

I commute between Linlithgow and Edinburgh and you’re very unlikely to get a seat on the Dunblane services, definitely not between Haymarket and Linlithgow. It always seems like it’s one of the first to get canned, or delayed, in any sort of disruption. Unlike the Glasgow shuttle, the Dunblane service is sometimes held back to let late running North Clyde Electrics cross/leave Newbridge Junction. A couple of times in the (very long ago) past it has been looped to let Glasgow shuttle fly past.

It’s the general opinion of a quite a few Linlithgow commuters that the Dunblane service is best avoided for a number of reasons. It stops at Edinburgh Park, always seems to trundle along slowly and it can range from a single 158 to a 5-car 158+170, but it’s mostly on the shorter side sadly.

The Dunblane services should improve with the Class 385s, and a reduced journey time of 10 minutes. Also factor in that probably around half of the Dunblane train passengers get on/off at Linlithgow and Polmont, which have been bizarrely dropped from the service. You’re guaranteed a seat on that service after that happens.

Too right mate. Dunblane does get a raw deal. Scotrail control delight in throwing us Toffs off at Stirling to rectify their late running service. They don't even offer any help to lift our Fortnam and Masons hampers into our waiting Range Rover Vogues . Outrageous.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

I'm sick to death of their constant delays and cancellations. Give you an example from today, I could pick many but let's go with today. Train was meant to leave Glasgow Queen Street at 0730 to Edinburgh and nothing was sitting at the platform. Got announced that the train would be leaving from platform 4. Five minutes later they cancelled it due to a 'Circuit Track Failure' according to station staff or 'Signalling Issues' according to the Twitter team at Bishopbriggs, more services got cancelled and the 0749 from Glasgow to Stirling which was meant to stop at all stations, changed to only running to Larbert and Stirling.

0800 train was then meant to leave, that then got cancelled, the Alloa train that was meant to leave at 0818 didn't actually leave until 0826, which meant I was over 35 minutes late for work. Now are Scotrail going to compensate me for being late to work, yeah I'm sure they will...

If either station staff and their god awful Twitter team knew what was going on faults and service wise, they might not get it so tight. You just need to look at the amount of tweets that Scotrail are getting passengers that are either delayed, or stuck at stations because services are cancelled or even still the train is running late and skips the stop.

I have never know the trains to be this bad and unfortunately I can see it only getting worse.

 

[92002]

I'm sick to death of their constant delays and cancellations. Give you an example from today, I could pick many but let's go with today. Train was meant to leave Glasgow Queen Street at 0730 to Edinburgh and nothing was sitting at the platform. Got announced that the train would be leaving from platform 4. Five minutes later they cancelled it due to a 'Circuit Track Failure' according to station staff or 'Signalling Issues' according to the Twitter team at Bishopbriggs, more services got cancelled and the 0749 from Glasgow to Stirling which was meant to stop at all stations, changed to only running to Larbert and Stirling.

0800 train was then meant to leave, that then got cancelled, the Alloa train that was meant to leave at 0818 didn't actually leave until 0826, which meant I was over 35 minutes late for work. Now are Scotrail going to compensate me for being late to work, yeah I'm sure they will...

If either station staff and their god awful Twitter team knew what was going on faults and service wise, they might not get it so tight. You just need to look at the amount of tweets that Scotrail are getting passengers that are either delayed, or stuck at stations because services are cancelled or even still the train is running late and skips the stop.

I have never know the trains to be this bad and unfortunately I can see it only getting worse.

If today's problem ls signal related it is a Network Rail problem. Which probably would delay inbound trains that then get cancelled. No inbound no outbound.

Probably will qualify for delay repay though.

 

[route101]

I'm sick to death of their constant delays and cancellations. Give you an example from today, I could pick many but let's go with today. Train was meant to leave Glasgow Queen Street at 0730 to Edinburgh and nothing was sitting at the platform. Got announced that the train would be leaving from platform 4. Five minutes later they cancelled it due to a 'Circuit Track Failure' according to station staff or 'Signalling Issues' according to the Twitter team at Bishopbriggs, more services got cancelled and the 0749 from Glasgow to Stirling which was meant to stop at all stations, changed to only running to Larbert and Stirling.

0800 train was then meant to leave, that then got cancelled, the Alloa train that was meant to leave at 0818 didn't actually leave until 0826, which meant I was over 35 minutes late for work. Now are Scotrail going to compensate me for being late to work, yeah I'm sure they will...

If either station staff and their god awful Twitter team knew what was going on faults and service wise, they might not get it so tight. You just need to look at the amount of tweets that Scotrail are getting passengers that are either delayed, or stuck at stations because services are cancelled or even still the train is running late and skips the stop.

I have never know the trains to be this bad and unfortunately I can see it only getting worse.

Seen it on Tuesday too , a Anniesland train announced non stop from high level and then 5 minutes after it was supposed to depart annouceced that it will now call at all stations , plus a Edinburgh service non stop to Haymarket that hadnt departed at 830am .

 

[route:oxford]

Too right mate. Dunblane does get a raw deal. Scotrail control delight in throwing us Toffs off at Stirling to rectify their late running service. They don't even offer any help to lift our Fortnam and Masons hampers into our waiting Range Rover Vogues . Outrageous.

Valvona & Crolla hampers surely?

 

[dm.701]

I'm sick to death of their constant delays and cancellations. Give you an example from today, I could pick many but let's go with today. Train was meant to leave Glasgow Queen Street at 0730 to Edinburgh and nothing was sitting at the platform. Got announced that the train would be leaving from platform 4. Five minutes later they cancelled it due to a 'Circuit Track Failure' according to station staff or 'Signalling Issues' according to the Twitter team at Bishopbriggs, more services got cancelled and the 0749 from Glasgow to Stirling which was meant to stop at all stations, changed to only running to Larbert and Stirling.

0800 train was then meant to leave, that then got cancelled, the Alloa train that was meant to leave at 0818 didn't actually leave until 0826, which meant I was over 35 minutes late for work. Now are Scotrail going to compensate me for being late to work, yeah I'm sure they will...

If either station staff and their god awful Twitter team knew what was going on faults and service wise, they might not get it so tight. You just need to look at the amount of tweets that Scotrail are getting passengers that are either delayed, or stuck at stations because services are cancelled or even still the train is running late and skips the stop.

I have never know the trains to be this bad and unfortunately I can see it only getting worse.

I have never known it to be quite this bad either, but why is it so bad? Even with the same rolling stock and a largely similar timetable, First ScotRail seemed much more punctual.

 

[route:oxford]

I have never known it to be quite this bad either, but why is it so bad? Even with the same rolling stock and a largely similar timetable, First ScotRail seemed much more punctual.

I never had an issue with National Express when they ran Scotrail - even though they were still running heritage units on the BofA & Dunblane diagrams. I don't think the timing has changed between Stirling and Dunblane has changed from 101 operation to 170.

 

[Mingulay]

I never had an issue with National Express when they ran Scotrail - even though they were still running heritage units on the BofA & Dunblane diagrams. I don't think the timing has changed between Stirling and Dunblane has changed from 101 operation to 170.

It is longer now, due to more stops more congestion and more problems. It's ironic the bus like sprinters got me home quicker 20 years ago. The feedback above confirms that Abellio have lost the confidence of many. How they get it back seems an uphill struggle.

 

[Sadsmileyface]

Five minutes later they cancelled it due to a 'Circuit Track Failure' according to station staff or 'Signalling Issues' according to the Twitter team at Bishopbriggs.

If either station staff and their god awful Twitter team knew what was going on faults and service wise, they might not get it so tight. You just need to look at the amount of tweets that Scotrail are getting passengers that are either delayed, or stuck at stations because services are cancelled or even still the train is running late and skips the stop.

I have never know the trains to be this bad and unfortunately I can see it only getting worse.

Yes, I’m sure if they tweeted out to everyone that it was the ‘right hand philange operating on B2 mode at down breaker 88’ or some such jargon, that would calm their audience down. That would totally work. I mean, even though a member of that same audience is a participant in a railway enthusiast forum and doesn’t know what a track circuit failure is or how it relates to signaling, or how ScotRail don’t operate the signals, yes, more precise information is needed because that will somehow make a difference.

 

[PaulLothian]

You're quite right of course, Linlithgow has a very similar deprivation profile to Dunblane with only two moderately deprived datazones in the town centre with any level of deprivation. Bridgend and Bo'ness do have some genuine deprivation issues however and are very much part of the wider Linlithgow station demand area so that is a slight difference from Dunblane.

And in fact Linlithgow is also used as the local station for two areas in Falkirk Council - Whitecross and Bo'ness, both of which are less well placed than areas within Linlithgow on the Scottish Index of Multiple Deprivation (SIMD).

 

[Mingulay]

Sign of the times ?

Abellio Scotrail take note!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-43310621

 

[mde]

Sign of the times ?

Abellio Scotrail take note!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-43310621

Uncanny timing, given that Radio Clyde are lambasting them today over 900 cancellations on the E&G in the last year… the standard "investing millions" message doesn't seem to be being well received.

 

[td97]

I have never known it to be quite this bad either, but why is it so bad? Even with the same rolling stock and a largely similar timetable, First ScotRail seemed much more punctual.

Recently ScotRail have lost some 158's and 170's to Northern, with more to follow (including some 156s). So Abellio currently have less diesel stock than when the franchise was run by First.

 

[takno]

Sign of the times ?

Abellio Scotrail take note!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-43310621

I imagine the RDG will put a little more thought into ensuring they have a decent boilerplate defence to cases like this in future. The very existence of delay-repay scheme for delays over 30 minutes seems to be a compelling argument for believing that delays of up to 30 minutes are to be expected and form a reasonable part of the contract. If it isn't then the only likely outcome would be to change journey planners and timetables to explicitly say that delays of up to 30 minutes are to be expected, and if you don't like it don't travel.

 

[Chrism20]

Mr Pochin said 26 journeys were late by more than 15 minutes, with the 100-minute delay on a journey last August.

That’s 26 of 550 journeys.

As someone who is a long distance commuter (Edinburgh - Newcastle) five days a week I’d quite frankly be overjoyed if only 26 of my 550 journeys were delayed by more than fifteen minutes.

I’m surprised GA didn’t go the distance with it as I suspect they wouldn’t have had to pay a penny other than the delay repay.

 

[Stopper]

It’s currently the worst franchise I can remember for a long time.Constant skip-stopping and short-forming on the E-G and the Dunblanes. Bizarre proposed new timetables ahead. New stock nowhere in sight while old stock disappears.

 

[Mingulay]

It’s currently the worst franchise I can remember for a long time.Constant skip-stopping and short-forming on the E-G and the Dunblanes. Bizarre proposed new timetables ahead. New stock nowhere in sight while old stock disappears.

In fairness. Without tempting fate. I have found the Dunblane service to have been better than normal these past 2 weeks . Generally on time ish. No cancellations affecting me . No more overcrowding than normal. And less of the grim unrefurbished 158s. The smell of new carpet is now very welcome.

I will enjoy it whilst it lasts if as I read on here things may deteriorate when the 170s are sent south.

Just a great shame the refurbished 158 seats are so big and cushioned the gap between the table and seat is narrow. Leg room is negligible. 4 adults even of normal size are knee touching and cramped. Verdict. They are the most uncomfortable train type I travel on if busy and on more than a short journey. Hour plus unable to move your legs is not great. Should have installed new seats and alter the spacing. Cost I suspect.

 

[takno]

It’s currently the worst franchise I can remember for a long time.Constant skip-stopping and short-forming on the E-G and the Dunblanes. Bizarre proposed new timetables ahead. New stock nowhere in sight while old stock disappears.

None of that is particularly down to the franchise. The were unlucky to be the first people having to order corridor-ended stock from the new ranges, and to be the operator in the field when the performance regime started to make skip-stopping the only viable option. I doubt anybody else would have been different.