Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

[mde]

I couldn't find anything under the Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables thread so I'll ask it here:
What operates the Edinburgh to Helensburgh service? Not that I would be on it long - Haymarket to Edinburgh Park - believe all of 4-5 minutes! It's timed for EMU in RTT...

Those are operated by Class 334 (Alstom Juniper) units.

 

[Kite159]

I couldn't find anything under the Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables thread so I'll ask it here:
What operates the Edinburgh to Helensburgh service? Not that I would be on it long - Haymarket to Edinburgh Park - believe all of 4-5 minutes! It's timed for EMU in RTT...

Will be 334s

 

[Jamesrob637]

Thanks all. That's my first possible connection off the Virgin Train at Haymarket if all on time. Could I get a 385 if I stuck around a bit? I believe Haymarket to Park has something like 7 trains per hour so am happy to go to a pub for a pint and wait.

 

[InOban]

You won't have time for a pint. There are four 385s an hour - two to Stirling/Dunblane and two to Queen Street via Grahamston and Cumbernauld. Watch which platform- because of congestion at Haymarket East some trains use the Fife lines through the station and cross over at Saughton.

 

[PHILIPE]

Usually a 334.

Exclusively a 334 and nowt else

 

[hexagon789]

Exclusively a 334 and nowt else

On Helensburghs yes, Haymarket-Edinburgh Park specifically then there are other options.

 

[DaStripedCgull]

Off topic again. Which 385 just got put in service?

 

[NorthClyde320]

Off topic again. Which 385 just got put in service?

Going by the notes I have taken the 63rd unit would be 041 but this unit was delivered on the 21st of June, the 64th would be 042 which was delivered on the 18th of July and the 65th would be 102 which was delivered on the 1st of August.

 

[nigelsporne]

I may have missed this in previous threads but if the E to G service uses 16 385/1s do these units run all day or do they get swapped over? Are there any other services that are due to be worked by 385/1s once there is a full compliment?

 

[JLUK144]

There was some talk a while back of 385s being taken off Cathcart Circle duties so they can go onto Ayr duties. Is this still happening? If so, when?

 

[YorkshireBear]

Just did my first trip on a 385 that wasn't just waverley to haymarket. Very impressed, went the full EG route. Train comfortable, fast and felt the business as a modern electric inter urban service. But late to the party but thought I'd contribute!

 

[nigelsporne]

I notice on RTT that there is a path from Millerhill to Waverley at around 8pm which then goes to Cadder Yard. Is this a training run with a unit or units that have not been fully commissioned yet?

 

[InOban]

Tonight's delivery seems to be cancelled. Seems odd to create a path at 24 hours notice, and then have to cancel it.

 

[NorthClyde320]

I may have missed this in previous threads but if the E to G service uses 16 385/1s do these units run all day or do they get swapped over? Are there any other services that are due to be worked by 385/1s once there is a full compliment?

I'm pretty sure the extra 385/1's will be used mainly on the 2 services through Falkirk Grahamston, you may occasionally get them on the G to S/A/D or Shotts line but that may be on a rare occasion.

 

[Class83]

I'm pretty sure the extra 385/1's will be used mainly on the 2 services through Falkirk Grahamston, you may occasionally get them on the G to S/A/D or Shotts line but that may be on a rare occasion.

There are a lot of platforms designed to fit 6*23m in Scotland, so I think Edinburgh-Falkirk High-Glasgow is the only place where 8 car running is possible. Stirling will presumably need to be 6 car in peaks so easier to operate with 385/0s and reduce to 3 car off peak. Though a bit of creative diagramming might allow 6 car to Stirling and 4 car via Grahamston for peaks, then 4 car to Stirling and 3 car via Grahamston off peak. At least none of the routes are getting a 2 car 158 any more.

Though the Stirling-Edinburgh route, as not served by the Inter7City network, strikes me as the only viable route other than E-G where they could actually sell some first class tickets if platform lengths and diagramming allowed it.

 

[InOban]

Am I correct that in the past the Edinburgh to Stirling services were normally just a single 158, so a 385/1 might be adequate?

 

[NorthClyde320]

There are a lot of platforms designed to fit 6*23m in Scotland, so I think Edinburgh-Falkirk High-Glasgow is the only place where 8 car running is possible. Stirling will presumably need to be 6 car in peaks so easier to operate with 385/0s and reduce to 3 car off peak. Though a bit of creative diagramming might allow 6 car to Stirling and 4 car via Grahamston for peaks, then 4 car to Stirling and 3 car via Grahamston off peak. At least none of the routes are getting a 2 car 158 any more.

Though the Stirling-Edinburgh route, as not served by the Inter7City network, strikes me as the only viable route other than E-G where they could actually sell some first class tickets if platform lengths and diagramming allowed it.

I should have been clearer sorry. What I was meaning to say is that the 2 services through Falkirk Grahamston will be either 3, 4 or 6 car services with G to S/A/D 3 or 6 car, with maybe the occasional 4 car. 8 car services will be confined to Falkirk High services only.

About a month ago when I was going from Cumbernauld to Edinburgh I was surprised when a 6 car 385 arrived, as most services ar a 3 or 4 car. The 6 car was to long for the platform at Cumbernauld.

 

[scotrail158713]

Am I correct that in the past the Edinburgh to Stirling services were normally just a single 158, so a 385/1 might be adequate?

I think they were but I reckon that a single 158 isn’t enough. The 4-car 385s would be enough but I think it’s easier to have 3-car trains off-peak to then double up in the peak as Edinburgh to Stirling was intended to be 6-car in the peak.

 

[JLUK144]

I think they were but I reckon that a single 158 isn’t enough. The 4-car 385s would be enough but I think it’s easier to have 3-car trains off-peak to then double up in the peak as Edinburgh to Stirling was intended to be 6-car in the peak.

The 3-car 385s definitely have more seats than a 2-car 158 but when you make the number of cars the same, the 158s are marginally better.

 

[InOban]

Now that E-G and Stirling services have settled in, has anyone an idea of passenger numbers? Is traffic growing?

 

[Scotrail314209]

Would there be a case for having some 385s down on Ayrshire in the peak times, to increase the capacity in the evenings on the very busy Largs services?

 

[snookertam]

There was some talk a while back of 385s being taken off Cathcart Circle duties so they can go onto Ayr duties. Is this still happening? If so, when?

If it happens it'll most likely be December when the timetable change happens.

 

[hexagon789]

Would there be a case for having some 385s down on Ayrshire in the peak times, to increase the capacity in the evenings on the very busy Largs services?

It could happen, I haven't seen confirmation of just which diagrams the 385s will be on in Ayrshire.

 

[Scotrail314209]

If it happens it'll most likely be December when the timetable change happens.

It could happen, I haven't seen confirmation of just which diagrams the 385s will be on in Ayrshire.

I'm hoping they can double up on some Ayr services to release some 380s. For too long in the evening peak Ardrossan and Largs have been left with a single unit which is mostly full and standing.

 

[hexagon789]

I'm hoping they can double up on some Ayr services to release some 380s. For too long in the evening peak Ardrossan and Largs have been left with a single unit which is mostly full and standing.

That would seem likely to be the general plan - doubling up some services by bringing in 385s and having the freed-up 380s double-up.

 

[Scotrail314209]

That would seem likely to be the general plan - doubling up some services by bringing in 385s and having the freed-up 380s double-up.

There are some services in particular which are very busy. 16:30 Glasgow to Largs and 16:50 Glasgow to Ardrossan Harbour. As well as the 17:22 Glasgow Central to Largs. All of which are single units and are mainly full and standing.

 

[snookertam]

There are some services in particular which are very busy. 16:30 Glasgow to Largs and 16:50 Glasgow to Ardrossan Harbour. As well as the 17:22 Glasgow Central to Largs. All of which are single units and are mainly full and standing.

Does seem like it would be a good move, however part of the issue they might run into is capacity at Central at that time. Eg the 1722 Central to Largs goes from platform 7 as a 4 car 380 - couldn't make that any longer without finding a longer platform which means displacing something else. It might be workable, but the point is that the longer you make all the trains at that time of night, the more you'll run into capacity constraints - particularly as when the class 314 diagrams go there will be more class 385s around and therefore longer trains across the station, even before you consider 6 cars on the Ardrossan and Largs routes.

The same could be said for some of the Neilston services at that time too. 1635 and 1703 are 3 car 320 and 314 respectively, are typically full and standing, despite daytime Neilston services all being 4 car class 380. Again whether the space will be there to strengthen these - parhaps using any 380s displaced from Ayrshire should it happen - remains to be seen.

 

[hexagon789]

There are some services in particular which are very busy. 16:30 Glasgow to Largs and 16:50 Glasgow to Ardrossan Harbour. As well as the 17:22 Glasgow Central to Largs. All of which are single units and are mainly full and standing.

Even off-peak the Largs can get quite busy to the extent a 3-car units fills up. I'm not sure if specific services to Largs are booked 3 or 4-car or if it's simply either/or but they generally seem to be 3-car.

 

[route:oxford]

Am I correct that in the past the Edinburgh to Stirling services were normally just a single 158, so a 385/1 might be adequate?

How far in the past are you talking?

Back in the mid 80s it was a 6 coach 47/7 including dbso on the 07:10ish

https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/21/329/

Then it became a 4 car 150 or 158 service, then it became a 6 coach 170 service, then you were just glad something, anything turned up...

 

[JLUK144]

Even off-peak the Largs can get quite busy to the extent a 3-car units fills up. I'm not sure if specific services to Largs are booked 3 or 4-car or if it's simply either/or but they generally seem to be 3-car.

Its 3-car and 4-car. If I’m not mistaken, Ayr and Largs services alternate. An Ayr train arrives and departs as a Largs train. Therefore you get both 3-car and 4-car. I’ve been to Largs a few times recently by train and I’ve had 3-car going there and 4-car going back and vice versa.