Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

[gsnedders]

Apart from anything else it would force the railway to address the ridiculous amount of foliage growing on the City Union line viaducts which would be a place making benefit for the Gorbals area to have a smart, well maintained railway through the area instead of a semi-derelict disgrace.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.8...4!1sgGQdcFj9XUoUlonOPGbMfg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

That's not on the surviving City Union Line itself, that's past Gorbals Junction, heading towards the former Glasgow, Barrhead and Neilston Direct Railway where it rejoined surviving trackage just before Victoria Road, north east of Pollokshields East station.

 

[Altnabreac]

Apart from anything else there are no structure clearance issues on the City Union line. It is on a viaduct over all of the roads in the area with the only overbridges being wired already at either end at Shields Road and Barrack Street and the M74 viaduct in Tradeston having plenty of clearance.

Actual costs of masts and wires for less than 2km should be relatively small. Most of the cost will be in addressing the historic maintenance neglect on the line.

The vegetation clearance and proper maintenance of the viaduct masonry to allow Masts to be attached is money that needs spending as preventive maintenance on the line anyway.

 

[Altnabreac]

That's not on the surviving City Union Line itself, that's past Gorbals Junction, heading towards the former Glasgow, Barrhead and Neilston Direct Railway where it rejoined surviving trackage just before Victoria Road, north east of Pollokshields East station.

The foreground isn't I suppose but you can see further down Laurieston road all the viaducts in the Gorbals are in the same state.

Here for example doesn't look like an active railway:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.8...4!1sBILyhuNSQD7eDY0IfnG91w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

[hexagon789]

The obvious solution is to wire the union line from Bellgrove to Shields

Obvious yes, likely to happen - anyone's guess

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Once Cumbernauld-Polmont is live, Shields can be reached via Falkirk G, Coatbridge and Rutherglen (and eventually via Shotts too).
But not this year...

 

[hexagon789]

But not this year...

Hopefully next year with a bit of luck

 

[gingertom]

With the Cumbernauld-Greenhills section being energised last week, I reckon there's a big push to get Greenhills-Falkirk G-Polmont done asap.

 

[D365]

Actual costs of masts and wires for less than 2km should be relatively small. Most of the cost will be in addressing the historic maintenance neglect on the line.

That’s exactly why it won’t get approved - not enough costs

 

[InOban]

With the Cumbernauld-Greenhills section being energised last week, I reckon there's a big push to get Greenhills-Falkirk G-Polmont done asap.

And according to the NR egip Twitter feed, that's exactly where they're wiring at present. I expect that it will be energised in the next few weeks.

 

[gingertom]

And according to the NR egip Twitter feed, that's exactly where they're wiring at present. I expect that it will be energised in the next few weeks.

which will allow the Motherwell-Cumbernauld-Falkirk G services to go electric, releasing a couple 156s to cascade. Or go off-lease. Whether there's EMUs available is a different matter...

 

[170401]

which will allow the Motherwell-Cumbernauld-Falkirk G services to go electric, releasing a couple 156s to cascade. Or go off-lease. Whether there's EMUs available is a different matter...

There are no Motherwell - Cumbernauld - Falkirk G services.

 

[hexagon789]

There are no Motherwell - Cumbernauld - Falkirk G services.

They ended when Cumbernauld was electrified weren't they?

 

[170401]

They ended when Cumbernauld was electrified weren't they?

Such a service has never existed, since the Motherwell service began it always terminated at Cumbernauld.

 

[hexagon789]

Such a service has never existed, since the Motherwell service began it always terminated at Cumbernauld.

I know, I was referring to the Motherwell-Whifflet-Cumbernauld shuttle

 

[gingertom]

I know, I was referring to the Motherwell-Whifflet-Cumbernauld shuttle

I've been on it. Was a while ago.

 

[hexagon789]

I've been on it. Was a while ago.

Seemed a service that could always do with being electrified.

 

[gingertom]

Seemed a service that could always do with being electrified.

on that we are agreed.

 

[hexagon789]

on that we are agreed.

It always seemed pointless that most trains to Whifflet were diesel when you could get there entirely under the wires.

 

[Highlandspring]

Diesel services to and from Whifflet were introduced in 1993 running on the unelectrified (until 2014) R&C line, the stations of which had been reopened specifically for the sevice having been previously closed in 1966. The current station at Whifflet had opened in 1992 for the (again diesel) Cumbernauld services and was supposedly chosen as the terminus for R&C services rather than Coatbridge Central due to concerns over running passenger trains over the single lead Coatbridge Jn, with the Bellgrove and Newton crashes still very fresh in the Scottish Region corporate memory at that time.

TLDR: diesels went to Whifflet because leccys couldn’t serve the R&C stations.

Anyway this is completely off topic for this thread, which is supposed to be about the travails of the class 385s. There’s another thread somewhere on here specifically for discussion of the post-EGIP/electrification timetables.

 

[CJSwan]

Anyway this is completely off topic for this thread, which is supposed to be about the travails of the class 385s. There’s another thread somewhere on here specifically for discussion of the post-EGIP/electrification timetables.

Thank you! There's been far too much drifting off topic in this thread this past week.

 

[gingertom]

Diesel services to and from Whifflet were introduced in 1993 running on the unelectrified (until 2014) R&C line, the stations of which had been reopened specifically for the sevice having been previously closed in 1966. The current station at Whifflet had opened in 1992 for the (again diesel) Cumbernauld services and was supposedly chosen as the terminus for R&C services rather than Coatbridge Central due to concerns over running passenger trains over the single lead Coatbridge Jn, with the Bellgrove and Newton crashes still very fresh in the Scottish Region corporate memory at that time.

TLDR: diesels went to Whifflet because leccys couldn’t serve the R&C stations.

Anyway this is completely off topic for this thread, which is supposed to be about the travails of the class 385s. There’s another thread somewhere on here specifically for discussion of the post-EGIP/electrification timetables.

once Falkirk G is energised, is it not to be operated by class 385s?

 

[170401]

once Falkirk G is energised, is it not to be operated by class 385s?

Yes, from Glasgow QS not Motherwell

 

[hexagon789]

Will the new half-hourly Glasgow QS-Cumbernauld-Falkirk G'ston-Edinburgh service call at all stations or is it going to be fast to Cumbernauld, does anyone one know?

 

[louis97]

Will the new half-hourly Glasgow QS-Cumbernauld-Falkirk G'ston-Edinburgh service call at all stations or is it going to be fast to Cumbernauld, does anyone one know?

All stops, the services from Queen Street low level then all terminate in the bays at Springburn.
The Dunblane to Edinburgh services are then sped up to run fast from Falkirk Grahamston towards Edinburgh.

 

[Mingulay]

All stops, the services from Queen Street low level then all terminate in the bays at Springburn.
The Dunblane to Edinburgh services are then sped up to run fast from Falkirk Grahamston towards Edinburgh.

Question if I may

The current Express service from Dunblane to Edinburgh is non stop from Larbert to Haymarket but it's time is not correspondingly very much quicker than a stopping service as it seems to get stuck behind stopping services and tends to trundle along at much less than max line speed for much of its time on the main E G line. Then it's the usual congestion issues in the approach to Edinburgh.

Will the new new electrified timetable faster services get similarly impeded ? Will the faster services deliver? I assume average line speeds will be higher when it's all emu but congestion remains ? Or will there be fewer trains on the line with longer trains ?

Curious to know how the estimated time savings will be delivered.?

 

[170401]

Question if I may

The current Express service from Dunblane to Edinburgh is non stop from Larbert to Haymarket but it's time is not correspondingly very much quicker than a stopping service as it seems to get stuck behind stopping services and tends to trundle along at much less than max line speed for much of its time on the main E G line. Then it's the usual congestion issues in the approach to Edinburgh.

Will the new new electrified timetable faster services get similarly impeded ? Will the faster services deliver? I assume average line speeds will be higher when it's all emu but congestion remains ? Or will there be fewer trains on the line with longer trains ?

Curious to know how the estimated time savings will be delivered.?

The current express is more about adding capacity than anything else. Both it and its balancing evening return were shoehorned into an already very tight timetable during the Firstgroup franchise as a response to growing demand.

The new electric timetable is going to be based on a development of managing that growing demand with effectivly an extra 2 trains per hour coming from the E&G into Edinburgh. This means that Dunblane services will gain extra capacity through the dropping of Polmont and Linlithgow and those 2 stations will gain extra capacity to and from Edinburgh by the addition of fairly lightly used services via Cumbernauld.

As far as speed and timetable resilliance go? Everything across the network will be sped up when the EMUs are introduced, whether or not we still have congestion is anyones guess, but at least the bigger issue of capacity should have been addressed adequately.

 

[Mingulay]

The current express is more about adding capacity than anything else. Both it and its balancing evening return were shoehorned into an already very tight timetable during the Firstgroup franchise as a response to growing demand.

The new electric timetable is going to be based on a development of managing that growing demand with effectivly an extra 2 trains per hour coming from the E&G into Edinburgh. This means that Dunblane services will gain extra capacity through the dropping of Polmont and Linlithgow and those 2 stations will gain extra capacity to and from Edinburgh by the addition of fairly lightly used services via Cumbernauld.

As far as speed and timetable resilliance go? Everything across the network will be sped up when the EMUs are introduced, whether or not we still have congestion is anyones guess, but at least the bigger issue of capacity should have been addressed adequately.

Thank you. Informative

I guess we shall just have to see if Abellio deliver all that has been promised when the project is complete. Whenever that now is. Jam tomorrow !

If the new timetables don't work they can get changed so judge them in use rather than now I suggest

I do find it odd all the signage on EGIP is still in stations remain with the timeline that has not been achieved . It's a bit like the late Jim Bowen on Bullesye "This is what you could have won".

 

[The_Engineer]

Can anyone tell me how many Class 385s have been delivered to ScotRail? Are they still doing driver training, or are any in service yet?

I'd appreciate any update on the fleet. I have tried going back down the thread but is seems to be all about routes, fares, etc!!

 

[OmniCity999]

Can anyone tell me how many Class 385s have been delivered to ScotRail? Are they still doing driver training, or are any in service yet?

I'd appreciate any update on the fleet. I have tried going back down the thread but is seems to be all about routes, fares, etc!!

A handful have been delivered to Scotland - none officially handed over to Scotrail. They were in frequent use as driver training units up until last month, their use has dropped owing to driver sight issues (curved windscreen causing multiple signals to be seen when only one is there) and bolt issues. As such, none are in service and no definitive date can be given for their first passenger use.

 

[The_Engineer]

A handful have been delivered to Scotland - none officially handed over to Scotrail. They were in frequent use as driver training units up until last month, their use has dropped owing to driver sight issues (curved windscreen causing multiple signals to be seen when only one is there) and bolt issues. As such, none are in service and no definitive date can be given for their first passenger use.

Thanks! I had heard of the curved windscreen problem but not the bolt issues. I assume that ScotRail would require a target of so many fault free miles before they could accept them formally, it is normally so for new trains. It sounds as though it could be some time before passengers see these in service trains......