Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

[Christmas]

IIRC most, if not all, stations between Glasgow and Ayr already have platform screens/mirrors fitted, from when the 318s regularly worked down that way before the 380s took over in 2011.

All removed a couple of years ago .

 

[hexagon789]

All removed a couple of years ago .

I was going to say, they went more or less after the 380s had bedded down into regular service.

 

[hexagon789]

Personally, I don't see the E-G getting 365s somehow. I think it'll come down to the door issue.

 

[380101]

IIRC most, if not all, stations between Glasgow and Ayr already have platform screens/mirrors fitted, from when the 318s regularly worked down that way before the 380s took over in 2011.

as mentioned, all DOO mirrors and monitors have been removed on the Ayr line. Some of the equipment was reused on the Paisley Canal line when it was electrified in 2012.

 

[170401]

365s would not be able to operate DOO on the E&G for the same reason they would not in Ayrshire.
Their are no cameras on the trains and no platform infrastructure is provided, therefore, the only safe method of dispatch is with a guard. There is no room for maneuvere with that.

 

[LowLevel]

Class 365 is perfectly capable of being operated by a 2 man crew anyway albeit in a less flexible way than the 170s as the guard's door panel is in the cab - South Eastern ran with a guard for many years. They might need some minor mods or they might need nothing.

Most if not all DOO units also have standard guard's panels for use either by a guard or as a contingency by the driver in the event of DOO equipment failure.

 

[Failed Unit]

Personally, I don't see the E-G getting 365s somehow. I think it'll come down to the door issue.

I can’t see the Scottish press accept it. They are English cast offs after all. Look at all the HST stories then ran.

 

[Glenmutchkin]

I can’t see the Scottish press accept it. They are English cast offs after all. Look at all the HST stories then ran.

Good job that the Daily Ranger doesn't actually run things up here.

ScotRail need to be positive, explain what has gone wrong and explain the interim fix. But they do need to make sure that any interim fix will actually work.

 

[Southsider]

I can’t see the Scottish press accept it. They are English cast offs after all. Look at all the HST stories then ran.

And the options are? The ideal is that the 385 issue is resolved in the next week or so but, if not, an alternative is required; albeit less than perfect. A slightly suboptimal service is better than no service.

 

[Failed Unit]

And the options are? The ideal is that the 385 issue is resolved in the next week or so but, if not, an alternative is required; albeit less than perfect. A slightly suboptimal service is better than no service.

Personally it is a good idea if it needs to happen. You just know the press publish anything to put the boot into Scotrail. I assume you have seen the Scotsman’s stories about the 40 year old cast off. (Even if they are an improvement on current stock comfort wise).

From a selfish point of view would love to ride one again,

 

[adrock1976]

Furthermore, the Class 365s also come with ready made First Class sections, which would please passengers who presently travel on the top of the hour departures in both directions as those are presently operated by Class 380s.

The interior layout is 2+2, which would be better than using the Class 315s that are gradually being withdrawn as they have 3+2 seating and no First Class accommodation.

 

[43096]

Surely that's the obvious one - the 365s are 100mph units so get them route cleared and staff trained, operate as two units / 8 coach in the peak on the E&G (which meets the 8-coach target early, even though 8x20m is slightly shorter than 7x23m) then they can continue to get rid of the 314s and let all the other plans keep running instead of tearing up the whole rolling stock plan. I think they're DOO so some agreement would probably be needed with guards that it's a short-term measure (and please don't strike) but that's got to be better than either large-scale short-forming and trying to form a new strategy.

365s also have first-class accommodation, which could then be reintroduced on the E-G.

This is going to seriously impact Hitachi's profits. And to think they were coming over here to show Alstom, Bombardier, Siemens et al how it should be done.

 

[marks87]

I suppose it’s somewhat ironic that only a little over 10 years ago the corridor connections were removed from the 318s to improve visibility and driver comfort.

Now, we have a brand new train severely delayed because a corridor connection was required.

 

[InOban]

Yet again an RTT delivery path has been cancelled tonight.

 

[Clansman]

Why are the 365s so favoured for the EG by so many? I'm just not buying this love affair.

IMO, given what passengers are used to and expect from Scotland's flagship route, securing as many 380s for the EG should be the priority. If they come up to Scotland they should instead be used to facilitate with this.

365s also have first-class accommodation, which could then be reintroduced on the E-G.

Furthermore, the Class 365s also come with ready made First Class sections, which would please passengers who presently travel on the top of the hour departures in both directions as those are presently operated by Class 380s.

The quality of their first class accommodation is near what standard passengers are currently getting onboard 170s, and a significant downgrade to the existing first class provisions on 170s. If they are used, they're better off declassified.

The interior layout is 2+2, which would be better than using the Class 315s that are gradually being withdrawn as they have 3+2 seating and no First Class accommodation.

But with no armrests or fixed tables, that should play out well.

And the options are?

Using 365s... but to displace some 380s on Ayrshire and North Berwick services - even if it meant having to reinstall platform mirrors.

 

[fgwrich]

Class 365 is perfectly capable of being operated by a 2 man crew anyway albeit in a less flexible way than the 170s as the guard's door panel is in the cab - South Eastern ran with a guard for many years. They might need some minor mods or they might need nothing.

Most if not all DOO units also have standard guard's panels for use either by a guard or as a contingency by the driver in the event of DOO equipment failure.

Could, if it came to it, Temporary mirrors be installed at the end of platforms to facilitate the use of 365s? Down here in the Thames Valley the services are worked by Networker Turbos too - Driver opens the doors, the Guard closes them. I cant see this surely being much of an issue if the 365s see some temporary use on EGIP surely.

365s also have first-class accommodation, which could then be reintroduced on the E-G.

This is going to seriously impact Hitachi's profits. And to think they were coming over here to show Alstom, Bombardier, Siemens et al how it should be done.

Indeed so. And this is before these units have entered any level of service yet so we've yet to see how their performance and reliability stacks up. It'll take a mountain to climb for Hitachi at this rate, and I rather bet Transport for London will be watching with baited breath while this all pans out given Hitachi's bid for the New Tube for London bit with Bombardier.

 

[hexagon789]

I can’t see the Scottish press accept it. They are English cast offs after all. Look at all the HST stories then ran.

Indeed, besides they are not really suited to the route.

They may be outer suburban but can they accomodate a catering trolley and don't they only have one toilet as well?

 

[Failed Unit]

Indeed, besides they are not really suited to the route.

They may be outer suburban but can they accomodate a catering trolley and don't they only have one toilet as well?

Nope 2. One normal and one wheelchair access

 

[Failed Unit]

Why are the 365s so favoured for the EG by so many? I'm just not buying this love affair.

IMO, given what passengers are used to and expect from Scotland's flagship route, securing as many 380s for the EG should be the priority. If they come up to Scotland they should instead be used to facilitate with this.




The quality of their first class accommodation is near what standard passengers are currently getting onboard 170s, and a significant downgrade to the existing first class provisions on 170s. If they are used, they're better off declassified.


But with no armrests or fixed tables, that should play out well.

I love the irony of this comment considering how people consider the trains that replace the 365s as a significant downgrade over what they have before

How are passengers already reacting to no 1st class. It is a short journey but used to annoy passengers when a 170 without first used to show up.

 

[hexagon789]

Nope 2. One normal and one wheelchair access

My mistake.

 

[hexagon789]

There is of course a "fantasy" solution,

Shove Duffs & Mk3s, lovely jubbly!

Well, we've had scores of Class 442 fantasy threads/ideas, perhaps it's time for some Class 47/7 fantasy ideas. A vast step up in comfort any road.

 

[Class465fan]

There is of course a "fantasy" solution,

Shove Duffs & Mk3s, lovely jubbly!

Well, we've had scores of Class 442 fantasy threads/ideas, perhaps it's time for some Class 47/7 fantasy ideas. A vast step up in comfort any road.

How about HST power cars coupled to class 442s.

 

[Clansman]

I love the irony of this comment considering how people consider the trains that replace the 365s as a significant downgrade over what they have before

How are passengers already reacting to no 1st class. It is a short journey but used to annoy passengers when a 170 without first used to show up.

Ironic? So you're suggesting that the 365s would be welcomed by passengers in their current form on the EG then?

Passengers are reacting just as angry to the lack of first class as they are to the lack of full tables. The last thing they want is to have they're tables shortened further, armrests taken away, and being charged a premium to access these facilities on a 365 first class that they otherwise would've gotten for their standard fares previously. Not to mention the media onslaught. At least if they were used on Ayrshire to displace 380s and even release the odd 314, there's still a positive case to make.

There is of course a "fantasy" solution,
Shove Duffs & Mk3s, lovely jubbly!
Well, we've had scores of Class 442 fantasy threads/ideas, perhaps it's time for some Class 47/7 fantasy ideas. A vast step up in comfort any road.

Christ, I can hear the spotters frothing at the mouth already

 

[hexagon789]

How about HST power cars coupled to class 442s.

Only if you can get some Valentas, otherwise I prefer the sound of a Duff!

 

[hexagon789]

Christ, I can hear the spotters frothing at the mouth already

It's got me frothing at the mouth just thinking of it!

 

[Class465fan]

Ironic? So you're suggesting that the 365s would be welcomed by passengers in their current form on the EG then?

Passengers are reacting just as angry to the lack of first class as they are to the lack of full tables. The last thing they want is to have they're tables shortened further, armrests taken away, and being charged a premium to access these facilities on a 365 first class that they otherwise would've gotten for their standard fares previously. Not to mention the media onslaught. At least if they were used on Ayrshire to displace 380s and even release the odd 314, there's still a positive case to make.

Surely is not that hard to add bigger tables and more armrest?

 

[Clansman]

Surely is not that hard to add bigger tables and more armrest?

It would be a step forward for the passengers at least, but then you've got to contend with the media onslaught of 'English cast-offs' headlines.

 

[AlexNL]

Ironic? So you're suggesting that the 365s would be welcomed by passengers in their current form on the EG then?

Passengers are reacting just as angry to the lack of first class as they are to the lack of full tables. The last thing they want is to have they're tables shortened further, armrests taken away, and being charged a premium to access these facilities on a 365 first class that they otherwise would've gotten for their standard fares previously. Not to mention the media onslaught. At least if they were used on Ayrshire to displace 380s and even release the odd 314, there's still a positive case to make.

It's not SR's/TS'/Abellio's fault that the new trains suffer from such a severe design defect, but it is up to SR to come up with an alternative solution.

I'm pretty sure passengers would be more upset if they're getting left behind due to short forms or cancellations due to rolling stock shortages. Trains will be leaving ScotRail soon, and have already been assigned to other operators. Extending the lease is thus not a possibility.

 

[Clansman]

It's not SR's/TS'/Abellio's fault that the new trains suffer from such a severe design defect, but it is up to SR to come up with an alternative solution.

I've always fully understood that, and as you said, that alternative solution is down to ScotRail. But I think that there could be a better alternative for temporarily using 365s up here rather than resorting to their use on the EG.

 

[route101]

Cant see anything they are gonna do . just shortformed services until the 385s come .