ScotRail Class 170's

[hexagon789]

Just a question for anybody who may know... I've been on a couple booked 170 long distance services and I've noticed they didn't have seat reservations with no stickers even on their booked diagrams (these were newer 170's). On the other hand, an older 170 I saw heading for Inverness did have seat reservation stickers up.

Is there any other cause why reservation stickers are not up even on some booked 170 services? I know when services get swapped from a HST, there are no reservations due to seats not matching up.

Simply that it's down the list of priorities, staff may not always have the ability nor time to put the reservations out.

Assuming the older and newer 170s were both 'Express' units with First Class the seating layouts match, so there should be no issue on that front for displaying reservations. If one of the Std only ex-Hull Trains 39x or ex-SPT 470/471 units appeared then reservations wouldn't be put out as the seating layouts are of course different.

 

[reecestrains]

Simply that it's down the list of priorities, staff may not always have the ability nor time to put the reservations out.

Assuming the older and newer 170s were both 'Express' units with First Class the seating layouts match, so there should be no issue on that front for displaying reservations. If one of the Std only ex-Hull Trains 39x or ex-SPT 470/471 units appeared then reservations wouldn't be put out as the seating layouts are of course different.

The only difference between the older and newer 170's is the centre seats in the carriage. On the older ones, there's an airline seat and the table seat in front of it. On the newer ones, the table seat is perfectly aligned with the window and external carriage PIS. Table seats 33/34 and 35/36.

 

[Dalmeny Jct]

Hi all - I've noticed what appear to be test runs running 3 x daily (SX) for most of January, from Edinburgh to Dalmeny Jct - Winchburgh Jct - Linlithgow and returning the same way. Different Class 170 unit each day. Does anyone know if this is in connection with new sanders being fitted, or perhaps new driver training / testing? Just curious (as well as a bit fed up of short formed Fife workings!).

 

[Scotrail84]

Hi all - I've noticed what appear to be test runs running 3 x daily (SX) for most of January, from Edinburgh to Dalmeny Jct - Winchburgh Jct - Linlithgow and returning the same way. Different Class 170 unit each day. Does anyone know if this is in connection with new sanders being fitted, or perhaps new driver training / testing? Just curious (as well as a bit fed up of short formed Fife workings!).

Possibly route retention diagrams due to the nightly closure of the line between Saughton and Dalmeny jn for OHL work. Drivers and guards need to learn/refresh the route.

The short forming of fife services are really nothing to do with this train. Short forms are mainly caused by HST failures elsewhere requiring step ups of units which results in short forming of local services.

 

[Dalmeny Jct]

Thanks - the booked route learning working 5N91 is cancelled during the weeks that the 3 "test"s are running - they are class 3s. I wouldn't have thought that night closures would impact route retention as nothing is booked anyway? Seemed to be a bit of as mix up last night - the first of the Up trains booked via Winchburgh was the only one that went that way after a 10+ min wait for the road at Dalmeny Jct. The following trains that had begun to pile up behind it all ran via the main line!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jan 2025 ==

Possibly route retention diagrams due to the nightly closure of the line between Saughton and Dalmeny jn for OHL work. Drivers and guards need to learn/refresh the route.

The short forming of fife services are really nothing to do with this train. Short forms are mainly caused by HST failures elsewhere requiring step ups of units which results in short forming of local services.

Thanks again, and sorry, get your point now about needing to refresh route knowledge for the diversions being booked that way on a regular basis. I think there was a signalling / route setting issue yesterday (Mon 13th) which delayed 1L96 and resulted in the following ones going main line. Tonight they are being sent through the Up Loop and then on to the Winchburgh branch!

 

[reecestrains]

I see 170429 has gone down to Doncaster yesterday...

Realtime Trains | 5Q23 1230 Haymarket Depot to Doncaster Works Wagn Shops | 21/03/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q23 1230 departure from Haymarket Depot to Doncaster Works Wagn Shops on 21/03/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Mar 2025 ==

I wonder why it's down there at the minute?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Mar 2025 ==

It looks like the newer 170 sets are going down there for C6 currently from what I'm aware.

So it must mean the older sets are getting done at Kilmarnock later this year.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

I see 170429 has gone down to Doncaster yesterday...

Realtime Trains | 5Q23 1230 Haymarket Depot to Doncaster Works Wagn Shops | 21/03/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q23 1230 departure from Haymarket Depot to Doncaster Works Wagn Shops on 21/03/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Mar 2025 ==

I wonder why it's down there at the minute?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Mar 2025 ==

It looks like the newer 170 sets are going down there for C6 currently from what I'm aware.

So it must mean the older sets are getting done at Kilmarnock later this year.

Sander fitment

 

[reecestrains]

Sander fitment

Thanks for the info. I was told by people in other groups that it was C6 overhaul happening with the newer units.

 

[SC318250]

Thanks for the info. I was told by people in other groups that it was C6 overhaul happening with the newer units.

Are you not thinking of the refurbishment that is due to start in the autumn?

 

[reecestrains]

Are you not thinking of the refurbishment that is due to start in the autumn?

That's for the older sets (401-415 & 470-471) from what I've heard.

 

[Russel]

Been at least 10 years since I've been on a Scotrail 170, I recall even back then the buffets were never used, have these been removed or are they still present, just locked up and gathering dust?

 

[reecestrains]

Been at least 10 years since I've been on a Scotrail 170, I recall even back then the buffets were never used, have these been removed or are they still present, just locked up and gathering dust?

They've been removed. It's just a trolley service on select services on the longer routes.

 

[reecestrains]

Recently, I took a ScotRail Class 170 up to Inverness from Glasgow Queen Street. I took the 07:07 service and it was surprisingly quiet. Seat reservation labels were up this time and wasn't too busy.
I think most of the people got on at Perth and Aviemore, but other than that it was fairly quiet and not too busy at all. Weather was decent too and got some nice views.

I always prefer to go for the 07:07 out of Glasgow Queen Street as it's the quietest service in the morning. Although I can imagine it'd get busy later in the day, especially the 10:07.

 

[route101]

Recently, I took a ScotRail Class 170 up to Inverness from Glasgow Queen Street. I took the 07:07 service and it was surprisingly quiet. Seat reservation labels were up this time and wasn't too busy.
I think most of the people got on at Perth and Aviemore, but other than that it was fairly quiet and not too busy at all. Weather was decent too and got some nice views.

I always prefer to go for the 07:07 out of Glasgow Queen Street as it's the quietest service in the morning. Although I can imagine it'd get busy later in the day, especially the 10:07.

Certainly if you want to get up to Inverness in good time you would get the early service. Is that service booked a 170?

 

[reecestrains]

Certainly if you want to get up to Inverness in good time you would get the early service. Is that service booked a 170?

Yes, that's the 170 allocation hence it had seat reservations. Always the best to avoid getting a busy service.

I would never take the 10:07 in tourist season (booked HST but sometimes can get swapped to a 170), I've been hearing people say it's a nightmare.

 

[Rab Smith]

Summer tourist season sees most services leaving the Central Belt to Inverness with high numbers and in particular, the mid morning to early afternoon departures have passenger loadings that can become quite uncomfortable with the amount of luggage taken on board. Cl170's were never designed to take large amounts of luggage. Suitcases are then left around the exit vestibules causing a hazard in itself. I've seen conductors get quite exasperated with people who just abandon their cases.
As a very regular user of the line, I tend to plan my summer journeys around the less busy services leaving early morning or evening from Inverness South or Perth North.
On the occasion I do use the busier services, nothing deflates me more than to see an IC7 swapped out for a 170 or even worse, a single 158!

 

[reecestrains]

Summer tourist season sees most services leaving the Central Belt to Inverness with high numbers and in particular, the mid morning to early afternoon departures have passenger loadings that can become quite uncomfortable with the amount of luggage taken on board. Cl170's were never designed to take large amounts of luggage. Suitcases are then left around the exit vestibules causing a hazard in itself. I've seen conductors get quite exasperated with people who just abandon their cases.
As a very regular user of the line, I tend to plan my summer journeys around the less busy services leaving early morning or evening from Inverness South or Perth North.
On the occasion I do use the busier services, nothing deflates me more than to see an IC7 swapped out for a 170 or even worse, a single 158!

Exactly, hence the reason why I always get the 07:07. The 19:07 would be a good alternative but it would only be good for the summer when it gets dark after 10pm.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Apr 2025 ==

On another note, I'm presuming 429 is still at Doncaster? I haven't seen a path for it to head back to Haymarket as of yet.

 

[EnchantGaming]

Exactly, hence the reason why I always get the 07:07. The 19:07 would be a good alternative but it would only be good for the summer when it gets dark after 10pm.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Apr 2025 ==

On another note, I'm presuming 429 is still at Doncaster? I haven't seen a path for it to head back to Haymarket as of yet.

Yep. 429 is still at Doncaster Works. It should be back up soon.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Apr 2025 ==

Been at least 10 years since I've been on a Scotrail 170, I recall even back then the buffets were never used, have these been removed or are they still present, just locked up and gathering dust?

393-396 were the only ones with buffets. They were removed to add more seating.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Apr 2025 ==

That's for the older sets (401-415 & 470-471) from what I've heard.

It is yes. 401-415 and 470-471 will be getting new seat covers, carpets, and new internal gangways.

 

[Russel]

393-396 were the only ones with buffets. They were removed to add more seating.

I used the Fife circle a few times in First ScotRail days and every journey that was a 170, I got one of the units with a buffet, I remember always heading to the table seat opposite the buffet, I must have got lucky!

 

[reecestrains]

It is yes. 401-415 and 470-471 will be getting new seat covers, carpets, and new internal gangways.

That'll be interesting to see. I presume the newer sets will follow some point in the future.

Will be PIS be getting changed or are they keeping it as it is? Northern installed TrainFX and EMR + XC got the new Bombardier system.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Apr 2025 ==

Most importantly, the ceiling panels and luggage racks need a good clean. Both on the newer and older sets.

 

[reecestrains]

I believe this will be 170429 returning to Haymarket on Tuesday:

Realtime Trains | 5Q01 1116 Doncaster Works Wagn Shops to Haymarket Depot | 29/04/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q01 1116 departure from Doncaster Works Wagn Shops to Haymarket Depot on 29/04/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Apr 2025 ==

I've also seen that the 09:42 Inverness service will now be terminating at Edinburgh Waverley instead of Glasgow Queen Street after the May timetable change.

I'm not sure what effect that'll have on capacity and whether a single 170 by itself will be enough. If there's loads of seat reservations and people booked on, maybe an additional 158 or double 170 may be needed on the service from time to time.

 

[hexagon789]

I've also seen that the 09:42 Inverness service will now be terminating at Edinburgh Waverley instead of Glasgow Queen Street after the May timetable change.

I'm not sure what effect that'll have on capacity and whether a single 170 by itself will be enough. If there's loads of seat reservations and people booked on, maybe an additional 158 or double 170 may be needed on the service from time to time.

It's simply a reversion to the pre-May 2022 arrangement, the 1544 also went to Edinburgh back then.

Supposedly there weren't paths for the 0942 and 1544 to go to Edinburgh when the route of Inverness services was swapped from via Ladybank to via Stirling under 'Fit for the Future', so these two trains were changed to run to Glasgow.

The 1050 is reportedly the busiest southbound service, so it was fairly soon strengthened by a 158 being added.

While of course decent connections exist at Stirling to go to Edinburgh, I suspect most travellers, particularly foreign visitors unfamiliar with the railway system or unaware of connections at Stirling, prefer a direct train, so making the 0944 revert to an Edinburgh destination may well suffice to ease pressure on the 1050 as is presumably the intention.

 

[InvHst]

I believe this will be 170429 returning to Haymarket on Tuesday:

Realtime Trains | 5Q01 1116 Doncaster Works Wagn Shops to Haymarket Depot | 29/04/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q01 1116 departure from Doncaster Works Wagn Shops to Haymarket Depot on 29/04/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Apr 2025 ==

I've also seen that the 09:42 Inverness service will now be terminating at Edinburgh Waverley instead of Glasgow Queen Street after the May timetable change.

I'm not sure what effect that'll have on capacity and whether a single 170 by itself will be enough. If there's loads of seat reservations and people booked on, maybe an additional 158 or double 170 may be needed on the service from time to time.

942 will remain a solo 170 their isn't the availability to strengthen this service.

1050 remains a 170/158 combo due to the Highlands loads it gets during summer. 942 changing to Edinburgh is solely to try and reduce pressure on the 1050

 

[reecestrains]

Thanks for the information regarding the 09:42, that'll be interesting in the summer months to see how that plays out and whether it'll balance out capacity on the 10:50 or not.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Apr 2025 ==

170429 has not left Doncaster. Not sure what's happened there?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Apr 2025 ==

UPDATE: Today's run has been cancelled.

 

[3973EXL]

Realtime Trains | 5Q01 1116 Doncaster Works Wagn Shops to Haymarket Depot | 02/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q01 1116 departure from Doncaster Works Wagn Shops to Haymarket Depot on 02/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q24 1209 Haymarket Depot to Doncaster Works Wagn Shops | 03/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q24 1209 departure from Haymarket Depot to Doncaster Works Wagn Shops on 03/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[reecestrains]

Realtime Trains | 5Q01 1116 Doncaster Works Wagn Shops to Haymarket Depot | 02/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q01 1116 departure from Doncaster Works Wagn Shops to Haymarket Depot on 02/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q24 1209 Haymarket Depot to Doncaster Works Wagn Shops | 03/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q24 1209 departure from Haymarket Depot to Doncaster Works Wagn Shops on 03/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Thanks for sharing. Does anyone know which unit is going down next or not?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 May 2025 ==

Today's run has been cancelled again...

 

[reecestrains]

Something going down to Doncaster tomorrow...

Realtime Trains | 5Q23 1111 Haymarket Depot to Doncaster Works Wagn Shops | 12/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q23 1111 departure from Haymarket Depot to Doncaster Works Wagn Shops on 12/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Presumably 429 returning to Haymarket although the last couple runs have been cancelled for some reason...

Realtime Trains | 5Q01 0900 Doncaster Works Wagn Shops to Haymarket Depot | 13/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q01 0900 departure from Doncaster Works Wagn Shops to Haymarket Depot on 13/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 May 2025 ==

Subject to if they do actually run this time.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 May 2025 ==

170394 gone down to Doncaster yesterday.
170429 returned to Haymarket today.

 

[reecestrains]

Should be 170394 returning to Haymarket tomorrow if it runs.

Realtime Trains | 5Q01 1400 Doncaster Works Wagn Shops to Haymarket Depot | 04/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q01 1400 departure from Doncaster Works Wagn Shops to Haymarket Depot on 04/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

No paths in at present for another unit to head down to Doncaster.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jun 2025 ==

Another unit to go down tomorrow...

Realtime Trains | 5Q24 1033 Haymarket Depot to Doncaster Works Wagn Shops | 05/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q24 1033 departure from Haymarket Depot to Doncaster Works Wagn Shops on 05/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Cowley]

Thread reopened for @reecestrains to update

 

[reecestrains]

Something has left Haymarket Depot earlier today, presuming it's the start of the 170 C6 Overhaul as mentioned before...

Realtime Trains | 5Q08 1259 Haymarket Depot to Kilmarnock Bonnyton Depot | 26/10/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q08 1259 departure from Haymarket Depot to Kilmarnock Bonnyton Depot on 26/10/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Oct 2025 ==

I think it's 170401 that's gone across.