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ScotRail Class 170's

reecestrains

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Joined
22 Aug 2023
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384
Location
Leeds, West Yorkshire
I've been tracking 402's allocations so far and I haven't seen it on the long distance workings yet. It was supposed to do the 21:40 Glasgow to Aberdeen service the other day but got swapped out to 403.

Then again that doesn't tell us anything.
 
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JaredWyllie1

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Joined
13 Sep 2022
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10
Location
Glasgow
Did 170401 return from Kilmarnock on 24th December 2025 or 11th January 2026? I’m leaning more towards the latter but a unit did come out towards Haymarket on Xmas Eve last year. Just trying to keep a note of dates

170414 went in to Brodies on 7th April as I’m sure most of you are aware. It appears to have skipped the queue as usually these things follow the same order of their last C6 and that was done in numerical order last time, to an extnent. It may have something to do with the bodywork damage on the front end of it. I passed Kilmarnock last week and 1 carriage of the unit was poking out of the Brodies shed fully sanded down for paint.

170415 returned from Doncaster last week from modified sanders and 170410 still remains long term out of traffic but a return is imminent it seems
 
Joined
3 Aug 2021
Messages
820
Location
Glasgow
Did 170401 return from Kilmarnock on 24th December 2025 or 11th January 2026? I’m leaning more towards the latter but a unit did come out towards Haymarket on Xmas Eve last year. Just trying to keep a note of dates

170414 went in to Brodies on 7th April as I’m sure most of you are aware. It appears to have skipped the queue as usually these things follow the same order of their last C6 and that was done in numerical order last time, to an extnent. It may have something to do with the bodywork damage on the front end of it. I passed Kilmarnock last week and 1 carriage of the unit was poking out of the Brodies shed fully sanded down for paint.

170415 returned from Doncaster last week from modified sanders and 170410 still remains long term out of traffic but a return is imminent it seems

170401 came out on 11/01/26.
158722 came out on 24/12/25.
 

hexagon789

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Joined
2 Sep 2016
Messages
18,283
Location
Glasgow
It was a mixture of green and purple. Green was for SPT branded sets. They're now all the standard Scotrail blue saltire
One or two 170 units have a mix of all 3 seat covers, as though spare stock of the older variants has been used to replace worn Saltire seat covers.

407 definitely has a couple of "purple" covers, and I think 471 has examples of all three.
 

Highlander1

Member
Joined
5 Sep 2025
Messages
173
Location
Inverness
One or two 170 units have a mix of all 3 seat covers, as though spare stock of the older variants has been used to replace worn Saltire seat covers.

407 definitely has a couple of "purple" covers, and I think 471 has examples of all three.
Hopefully the "refresh" will deal with that.
 

60159

Member
Joined
26 Nov 2018
Messages
411
Did 170401 return from Kilmarnock on 24th December 2025 or 11th January 2026? I’m leaning more towards the latter but a unit did come out towards Haymarket on Xmas Eve last year. Just trying to keep a note of dates

170414 went in to Brodies on 7th April as I’m sure most of you are aware. It appears to have skipped the queue as usually these things follow the same order of their last C6 and that was done in numerical order last time, to an extnent. It may have something to do with the bodywork damage on the front end of it. I passed Kilmarnock last week and 1 carriage of the unit was poking out of the Brodies shed fully sanded down for paint.

170415 returned from Doncaster last week from modified sanders and 170410 still remains long term out of traffic but a return is imminent it seems
Not seeing 170410 in service yet.
Any update please?
 

dmkc

Member
Joined
9 Feb 2017
Messages
99
Was on a 170 for the first time in a long time yesterday - goodness me they are looking rough internally
 

dr140

Member
Joined
25 Jun 2014
Messages
18
Location
Fife
Has anyone else noticed how poor the air conditioning is on these units lately? Almost every unit I've been on in the past few weeks has had the interior gangway doors locked open to allow air to flow from where the air conditioning is working to the other carriages. Unless you're directly located where the working unit is it's very hot and almost unbearable. I used to purposely seek out 170's in previous years over 158's as the air conditioning used to be so reliable and powerful (sometimes it was too cold!). Does anyone know if it's down to these units ageing or budget cut backs leading to reduced maintenance?
 

hexagon789

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2 Sep 2016
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18,283
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Glasgow
Has anyone else noticed how poor the air conditioning is on these units lately? Almost every unit I've been on in the past few weeks has had the interior gangway doors locked open to allow air to flow from where the air conditioning is working to the other carriages. Unless you're directly located where the working unit is it's very hot and almost unbearable. I used to purposely seek out 170's in previous years over 158's as the air conditioning used to be so reliable and powerful (sometimes it was too cold!). Does anyone know if it's down to these units ageing or budget cut backs leading to reduced maintenance?
Amusingly I had 425 on Saturday there and Coach C (the DMOCL vehicle) was almost too cool!

The HST I had back was fine, but not as "chilled".

Does seem to be very much unit or even carriage specific.

I will say that they apparently do get stuffy if the system is set to Auto instead of Cool in warm weather, based on what a guard was telling me back in March.
 

dr140

Member
Joined
25 Jun 2014
Messages
18
Location
Fife
Amusingly I had 425 on Saturday there and Coach C (the DMOCL vehicle) was almost too cool!

The HST I had back was fine, but not as "chilled".

Does seem to be very much unit or even carriage specific.

I will say that they apparently do get stuffy if the system is set to Auto instead of Cool in warm weather, based on what a guard was telling me back in March.
I've maybe just been very unlucky so far. If I'm boarding at Waverley, I do tend to get on the front and walk back until I find a part of the train that is cool. I've had a few HST's last week and completely agree that whilst it's not the most powerful system, it was working just fine on every journey. It's amazing how they keep an old system on a near 50 year old train going so well.
 

hexagon789

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Glasgow
I've maybe just been very unlucky so far. If I'm boarding at Waverley, I do tend to get on the front and walk back until I find a part of the train that is cool. I've had a few HST's last week and completely agree that whilst it's not the most powerful system, it was working just fine on every journey. It's amazing how they keep an old system on a near 50 year old train going so well.
I'd be surprised if it's the original 70s/80s system the HST trailers have still?

I'd always assumed they were fitted with a new system in FGW days at some stage.

The 170 system may simply be a maintenance/cleaning thing, hence the variability.
 

scotraildriver

Established Member
Joined
15 Jun 2009
Messages
1,846
Amusingly I had 425 on Saturday there and Coach C (the DMOCL vehicle) was almost too cool!

The HST I had back was fine, but not as "chilled".

Does seem to be very much unit or even carriage specific.

I will say that they apparently do get stuffy if the system is set to Auto instead of Cool in warm weather, based on what a guard was telling me back in March.
Guards doing this causes the problem. The system is supposed to be left at "normal" but guards often put it to "summer" which then cools continuously and the evaporators freeze up and restricts airflow. It also makes the trains freezing early morning and late at night. The system then shuts itself down to defrost and has to be reset. If people would leave things alone it would work better.
 

LowLevel

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Joined
26 Oct 2013
Messages
8,885
Guards doing this causes the problem. The system is supposed to be left at "normal" but guards often put it to "summer" which then cools continuously and the evaporators freeze up and restricts airflow. It also makes the trains freezing early morning and late at night. The system then shuts itself down to defrost and has to be reset. If people would leave things alone it would work better.
Yeah, leaving them in normal keeps them working more consistently for longer whereas summer mode may make them a fridge in the short term but then they pack up entirely and that's that. Same as winter mode is almost cloyingly unbearable heat.

Ours are being modded to remove that switch and instead have them cool to a temperature below ambient like a 158 but hopefully more effectively/reliably.
 

Retorus

Member
Joined
30 Mar 2012
Messages
340
Amusingly I had 425 on Saturday there and Coach C (the DMOCL vehicle) was almost too cool!

The HST I had back was fine, but not as "chilled".

Does seem to be very much unit or even carriage specific.

I will say that they apparently do get stuffy if the system is set to Auto instead of Cool in warm weather, based on what a guard was telling me back in March.
All part of the ScotRail aircon lottery. The carriages on 380s alternate between sweltering and fridge.
 

Russel

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Joined
30 Jun 2022
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5,376
Location
Lichfield
I saw a ScotRail 170 pass York on Friday evening heading south to Doncaster, it really took me by surprise!
 

Transilien

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Joined
10 Mar 2024
Messages
728
Location
Ayrshire
I've maybe just been very unlucky so far. If I'm boarding at Waverley, I do tend to get on the front and walk back until I find a part of the train that is cool. I've had a few HST's last week and completely agree that whilst it's not the most powerful system, it was working just fine on every journey. It's amazing how they keep an old system on a near 50 year old train going so well.
It would probably be better if the vestibule doors actually worked properly.
 

Highlander1

Member
Joined
5 Sep 2025
Messages
173
Location
Inverness
Guards doing this causes the problem. The system is supposed to be left at "normal" but guards often put it to "summer" which then cools continuously and the evaporators freeze up and restricts airflow. It also makes the trains freezing early morning and late at night. The system then shuts itself down to defrost and has to be reset. If people would leave things alone it would work better.
It's what guards are instructed to do.
 

kkong

Member
Joined
8 Sep 2008
Messages
1,126
It sounds like something isn't right with the air conditioning controls.

A common sense approach would be to have a target set temperature (say 21C) and leave the HVAC to do the work, rather than having someone make manual adjustments depending on the ambient temperature.

Thermostats are not new technology.
 

Highlander1

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Joined
5 Sep 2025
Messages
173
Location
Inverness
It sounds like something isn't right with the air conditioning controls.

A common sense approach would be to have a target set temperature (say 21C) and leave the HVAC to do the work, rather than having someone make manual adjustments depending on the ambient temperature.

Thermostats are not new technology.
They have thermostats. The units all have 3 settings - winter, summer and "normal". All you do is select the most appropriate for the weather conditions. They only really need adjusted seasonally.
 
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InvernessTMD

Member
Joined
7 Aug 2022
Messages
85
Location
Central Scotland
Just had an absolutely miserable experience travelling from Falkirk to Dundee for the Discovery Double, all 170s. The ~10 o'clock trip from Falkirk to Haymarket wasn't so bad, onboard 170396 and 158710 working in multiple (We were on the Turbostar portion of the train). The train was busy, although nobody was standing. The 170 however was pretty dirty, grime everywhere, stains on the backs of seats, dirt and debris on the carpets and seats. A pretty sharp departure from how I usually find the ScotRail 170s.

Then the ~10:50 trip from Haymarket to Dundee was hellish onboard 170432. Not sure what ScotRail are smoking, but a 3 car from Edinburgh to Aberdeen is completely bonkers, Sunday or not. There was about 40 people stood in the train in total with absolutely no seats. We had seats reserved but it was impossible to actually make our way to our assigned carriage - there was no signs inside or outside the train indicating which carriages were which anyway, so we would've had to force our way through a dense crowd to possibly not even end up in the right car. The service was meeting another 3 car set in Dundee to form one six car, which would've probably alleviated things for those that remained - not that it mattered, as there was a mass exodus at Leuchars, and we along with a lot of those left were getting off at Dundee for the railtour.
Again, the unit was absolutely filthy, dirt everywhere. Everything was stained and slightly sticky.

Thankfully, both units seemed in good mechanical condition with working air-con keeping the trains at acceptable temperatures. The toilets were also clean, as expected since they're probably cleaned most often. The driver was apologetic, which figured. Not remotely their fault anyway.

I've never had such terrible experiences with ScotRail, and usually their 170s are comfortable and clean enough, about what you'd expect for units their age and usage. Has anyone else had similar experiences?
 

skyhigh

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
6,842
A common sense approach would be to have a target set temperature (say 21C) and leave the HVAC to do the work, rather than having someone make manual adjustments depending on the ambient temperature.
This is exactly how it works - 'Normal' is a set temperature of 20°c, 'Summer' is 18°c and 'Winter' 22°c.
Ours are being modded to remove that switch and instead have them cool to a temperature below ambient like a 158 but hopefully more effectively/reliably.
I believe all 170s are having the same mod, it is a leasing company led mod rather than operator as I understand it.
 

hexagon789

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2 Sep 2016
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Glasgow
Just had an absolutely miserable experience travelling from Falkirk to Dundee for the Discovery Double, all 170s. The ~10 o'clock trip from Falkirk to Haymarket wasn't so bad, onboard 170396 and 158710 working in multiple (We were on the Turbostar portion of the train). The train was busy, although nobody was standing. The 170 however was pretty dirty, grime everywhere, stains on the backs of seats, dirt and debris on the carpets and seats. A pretty sharp departure from how I usually find the ScotRail 170s.

Then the ~10:50 trip from Haymarket to Dundee was hellish onboard 170432. Not sure what ScotRail are smoking, but a 3 car from Edinburgh to Aberdeen is completely bonkers, Sunday or not. There was about 40 people stood in the train in total with absolutely no seats. We had seats reserved but it was impossible to actually make our way to our assigned carriage - there was no signs inside or outside the train indicating which carriages were which anyway, so we would've had to force our way through a dense crowd to possibly not even end up in the right car. The service was meeting another 3 car set in Dundee to form one six car, which would've probably alleviated things for those that remained - not that it mattered, as there was a mass exodus at Leuchars, and we along with a lot of those left were getting off at Dundee for the railtour.
Again, the unit was absolutely filthy, dirt everywhere. Everything was stained and slightly sticky.

Thankfully, both units seemed in good mechanical condition with working air-con keeping the trains at acceptable temperatures. The toilets were also clean, as expected since they're probably cleaned most often. The driver was apologetic, which figured. Not remotely their fault anyway.

I've never had such terrible experiences with ScotRail, and usually their 170s are comfortable and clean enough, about what you'd expect for units their age and usage. Has anyone else had similar experiences?
The 1050 Edinburgh to Aberdeen can't be strengthened from Edinburgh to Dundee as it joins with another 170 from Glasgow at Dundee, the one you joined would've been the Glasgow portion.

As to internal cleanliness, most 170s are like this, I'm impressed you found one where the toilet wasn't similarly grotty, though the earlier express units are worse than the later batch.

For carriage letters - the vehicle with the disabled toilet is A, B in the middle and C with the compact toilet.
 

kkong

Member
Joined
8 Sep 2008
Messages
1,126
This is exactly how it works - 'Normal' is a set temperature of 20°c, 'Summer' is 18°c and 'Winter' 22°c.

I believe all 170s are having the same mod, it is a leasing company led mod rather than operator as I understand it.

That doesn't make sense to me.

18C is too cold for most people (especially women; try setting an office to 18C and see what reaction you get!).

Why does the target saloon temperature vary by season?
 

43096

On Moderation
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23 Nov 2015
Messages
18,727
That doesn't make sense to me.

18C is too cold for most people (especially women; try setting an office to 18C and see what reaction you get!).

Why does the target saloon temperature vary by season?
Because in summer when you have been out in the heat you want to go into somewhere cooler and in winter the opposite applies: been out in the cold you want to go into somewhere much warmer.

My car is generally set to 20C in summer and 21C or 22C in winter for that reason.
 

The exile

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Joined
31 Mar 2010
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9,307
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Somerset
That doesn't make sense to me.

18C is too cold for most people (especially women; try setting an office to 18C and see what reaction you get!).

Why does the target saloon temperature vary by season?
I would imagine the saloon temperature on a hot day rarely gets anywhere near 18C but even on a cool morning in the summer, you don’t want the heating to come on!
 

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