ScotRail cancelling services July 2024

[Iamanoob]

I would expect the reduced operating costs in terms of track access, overtime payments etc will be WELL over £1m.

Consider how long the temporary timetable has been in operation (since 10 July 2024) and the scope of the service reductions (only 75% of normal services running Mon-Sat and an even fewer on Sun).

We are talking approximately 600 services per day that are not running, out of a normal total of 2,250 services per day.

Where did your figure of £1m come from?

I overheard a couple of station staff saying £1m per month but thought I misheard hence me stating sine the timetable started but with the above figures, maybe per month sounds more likely.

 

[kkong]

I overheard a couple of station staff saying £1m per month

Ah yes, station staff.

They are known for being well-informed on corporate finance matters.

 

[Cails27]

That is a bit of a strange way of looking at it.

Maybe, but I was trying to balance the argument out. They might be saving some but they’ll be losing somewhere else, it’s not quite as cut and dry as people are making it out to be.

Either way I think there’s going to be a bit of a challenge getting ridership up again. I suspect the public are not going to like the reintroduction of peak-time fares on Monday on a reduced timetable.

 

[43066]

Either way I think there’s going to be a bit of a challenge getting ridership up again. I suspect the public are not going to like the reintroduction of peak-time fares on Monday on a reduced timetable.

I’m not sure that’s backed up by the figures. Scotrail’s passenger growth figures between ‘22/‘23 and ‘23/‘24 were some of the strongest in the whole of the UK, and second only to the Elizabeth line:

ScotRail Sees Second Largest Increase in Passenger Journeys In Latest Financial Year Figures

A new study from Office of Rail and Road, analysed by West Somerset Railway has revealed that passenger rail journeys have surged by 27% on ScotRail in the latest financial year statistics compared to the previous year.

www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com

The Office of Rail and Road ‘Passenger rail usage, January to March 2024’ report shows that there were 81.1 million passenger journeys on ScotRailduring the 2023-2024 financial year, a 27% increase from the 2022-2023 financial year, Placing them second overall.
Looking at the rest of the table, Elizabeth Line came first (54%), and Hull Trains came third (24%).

 

[Scotrail84]

RTT has Leven going half hourly from the Dec 24 timetable although this may not be accurate.

156s will not be cascaded to the East side of the country for various reasons - drivers and guards don't sign them, nobody at Haymarket shed is passed on them either so no maintenance could be done there.

 

[Devon Sunset]

Although it's not ideal they could still work on the east side as long as they return to Corkerhill for maintenance. No 158s allocated to Haymarket and no competence for maintenance but they still run in the east. Fitters from Corkerhill have been known to attend in a van for faults that stop the set returning West.

 

[Retorus]

I’m not sure that’s backed up by the figures. Scotrail’s passenger growth figures between ‘22/‘23 and ‘23/‘24 were some of the strongest in the whole of the UK, and second only to the Elizabeth line:

ScotRail Sees Second Largest Increase in Passenger Journeys In Latest Financial Year Figures

A new study from Office of Rail and Road, analysed by West Somerset Railway has revealed that passenger rail journeys have surged by 27% on ScotRail in the latest financial year statistics compared to the previous year.

www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com

Personally, I’ll be going back to the bus from Monday morning. It’s slower, but the peak fares are absolutely not worth the time saving for me.

 

[Scotrail84]

Although it's not ideal they could still work on the east side as long as they return to Corkerhill for maintenance. No 158s allocated to Haymarket and no competence for maintenance but they still run in the east. Fitters from Corkerhill have been known to attend in a van for faults that stop the set returning West.

Just like nobody at Inverness depot is passed on 170s, they can only be fuelled or tanked there.

The difference with the 158s is that train crews have never lost competency on them. All the depots that would needed to work 156s, thats Edinburgh, Tweedbank, Perth and Dundee have not signed them for a long time.

 

[Bikeman78]

Just like nobody at Inverness depot is passed on 170s, they can only be fuelled or tanked there.

The difference with the 158s is that train crews have never lost competency on them. All the depots that would needed to work 156s, thats Edinburgh, Tweedbank, Perth and Dundee have not signed them for a long time.

As I mentioned in another thread, a swap with Northern, if they are willing, for 158s or 170s would be the simplest solution. No training required. Otherwise Scotrail will end up with lots of 156s standing idle.

 

[Scotrail84]

As I mentioned in another thread, a swap with Northern, if they are willing, for 158s or 170s would be the simplest solution. No training required. Otherwise Scotrail will end up with lots of 156s standing idle.

Northen took ex Scotrail 170s (good ones as well), maybe 10 years ago now? I highly doubt they will be willing to swap back 170s and 158s for clapped out 156 units, would that even be legal in terms of leasing agreements etc? Scotrail need to keep some 156 units for the WHL anyway. No idea what will replace them when the time comes.

 

[InOban]

I understand that when the WHL was cleared for the 153s it was also cleared for the 158s.

 

[Scotrail84]

I understand that when the WHL was cleared for the 153s it was also cleared for the 158s.

I have never heard of a 158 going up there, not saying it's never been done though. I thought the plug doors would be an issue with them.

 

[najaB]

I have never heard of a 158 going up there, not saying it's never been done though. I thought the plug doors would be an issue with them.

Don't 153s have a similar plug door design?

 

[Scotrail84]

Don't 153s have a similar plug door design?

I don't think they extend out anywhere near as far as 158 doors do.

 

[Bill57p9]

It isn't just the WHL though: the GSW routes (including Stranraer) are also not cleared for 158s, with some exceptions for empty stock workings.

If 158s were cleared for WHL I would like to think ScotRail would have deployed them on that 5 hour plus journey

 

[Scotrail84]

It isn't just the WHL though: the GSW routes (including Stranraer) are also not cleared for 158s, with some exceptions for empty stock workings.

If 158s were cleared for WHL I would like to think ScotRail would have deployed them on that 5 hour plus journey

Especially since about 25 of them are RETB fitted. (it might be all of them now to be fair)

 

[Bikeman78]

Northen took ex Scotrail 170s (good ones as well), maybe 10 years ago now? I highly doubt they will be willing to swap back 170s and 158s for clapped out 156 units, would that even be legal in terms of leasing agreements etc? Scotrail need to keep some 156 units for the WHL anyway. No idea what will replace them when the time comes.

I know about the West Highland. The point is, around 10 of them will be spare once East Kilbride goes electric. Scotrail is short of DMUs. It would be stupid to have 156s standing idle whilst other routes struggle. As for clapped out, they seem to be reliable. I've never had one fail on me.

 

[Bill57p9]

At risk of perpetuating the 158 clearance tangent, I checked the current Scotland Route Sectional Appendix and can confirm they are:

• cleared only to run empty between
  • Gretna Junction & Muirhouse Central Junction via Kilmarnock
  • Kilmarnock & Barassie
  • Glasgow Central & Barassie via Kilwinning
• Prohibited
  • Barassie to Stranraer
  • West Highland Line (beyond Craigendoran Junction)

Scotland Route Sectional Appendix Sep 2024

 

[Falcon1200]

Regarding 158 route clearance, at one time they were banned from the Shotts line, between Holytown Jc and Midcalder Jc. We (Control) enquired why and were told it was because, at a couple of stations, with the air suspension deflated, the opened doors might scrape the platform. Obviously the issue was addressed as, before electrification, the class became regular traction on the route. It could therefore be similar minor issues preventing their clearance for other routes, or even just the fact that the routes have not been cleared because there have never been any plans to operate them there.

 

[Scotrail84]

Regarding 158 route clearance, at one time they were banned from the Shotts line, between Holytown Jc and Midcalder Jc. We (Control) enquired why and were told it was because, at a couple of stations, with the air suspension deflated, the opened doors might scrape the platform. Obviously the issue was addressed as, before electrification, the class became regular traction on the route. It could therefore be similar minor issues preventing their clearance for other routes, or even just the fact that the routes have not been cleared because there have never been any plans to operate them there.

Do I recall correctly that a 158 scraped the platform at Shotts a number of years ago now causing minor damage to the unit and coping stones?

 

[Falcon1200]

Do I recall correctly that a 158 scraped the platform at Shotts a number of years ago now causing minor damage to the unit and coping stones?

I don't recall that myself! Wonder whether it was before or after they were passed for the route.

(I do recall, back when Virgin used Class 158s for certain Anglo-Scottish services, one being diverted via the Hamilton Circle; Only when it was too late was it remembered that the route was not cleared for them! Nothing untoward came of the incident....)

 

[Scotrail84]

I don't recall that myself! Wonder whether it was before or after they were passed for the route.

(I do recall, back when Virgin used Class 158s for certain Anglo-Scottish services, one being diverted via the Hamilton Circle; Only when it was too late was it remembered that the route was not cleared for them! Nothing untoward came of the incident....)

I think this was just prior to them being introduced but before any station work had been done, sure it was the Edinburgh bound platform. I also remember a class 170 being pressed into service on a Central run but it only called at Livvy South due to platform issues on the route. They just about had kittens when it rolled into Central was sent straight back to Waverley as nobody in the Central signs them obviously.

Those V X/C 158s must have been the very early 2000s, there used to be an 18:57 Man Airport booked a 158

 

[Sealink]

ScotRail disruption information isn't great is it?

The screenshot below shows that the 1041 Inverness to Wick will be delayed, due to maintaining connections from other services. That's great.
But the "Scheduled" and "Expected" both show 1041.
The second screenshot is from Realtime Trains showing the departure at 1046.
Small fry I suppose in the big scheme of things, given the number of passengers affected. I imagine they want passengers on the train as quickly as possible. A bit of a non-post then really

The bigger issue for me is that their update "Minor Disruption" doesn't mention that the 0812 WCK-INV and 1400 INV-WCK are cancelled due to the conductor being ill. The next train north is of course not until 1831.
This seems to be as a result of the cancellation being updated in the timetable the day before and not a last minute change.

 

[route101]

I don't recall that myself! Wonder whether it was before or after they were passed for the route.

(I do recall, back when Virgin used Class 158s for certain Anglo-Scottish services, one being diverted via the Hamilton Circle; Only when it was too late was it remembered that the route was not cleared for them! Nothing untoward came of the incident....)

I heard of a 158 on an East Kilbride service but not sure if it actually happened.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

I heard of a 158 on an East Kilbride service but not sure if it actually happened.

A 158 once managed to get to Busby before it was noticed. It was in the middle of a 6-car.

 

[EMU303]

Back on topic, using my SR ticket app I can see Queen St - Waverley via Falkirk High has the 15 min peak frequency restored from Monday 7th and the 15 min Saturday service restored from 12th and the 30 min Sunday service the following day. Noted similar full restorations on a few other routes I use. Be interesting to see how much is restored across the network.

 

[GordonT]

Back on topic, using my SR ticket app I can see Queen St - Waverley via Falkirk High has the 15 min peak frequency restored from Monday 7th and the 15 min Saturday service restored from 12th and the 30 min Sunday service the following day. Noted similar full restorations on a few other routes I use. Be interesting to see how much is restored across the network.

Most Scottish Local Authorities have a week's school holidays commencing either 7th or 14th October and some have school holidays both weeks. It will be interesting to see if this has a bearing on staff availability and consequential ability to field the enhanced services without ad hoc cancellations.

 

[najaB]

Is it usually a problem? I've never really noticed it.

 

[Scotrail84]

Back on topic, using my SR ticket app I can see Queen St - Waverley via Falkirk High has the 15 min peak frequency restored from Monday 7th and the 15 min Saturday service restored from 12th and the 30 min Sunday service the following day. Noted similar full restorations on a few other routes I use. Be interesting to see how much is restored across the network.

Rumours of the timetable returning to as close to normal ass possible from the 7th Oct. Maybe an announcement tomorrow? Wednesday is usually when they put out a PR is it not?

 

[scotraildriver]

Is it usually a problem? I've never really noticed it.

It's becoming more of a problem as most of the new recruits are much younger with young kids who want time off in the holidays. ScotRail drivers have been older demographic for a long time hence the high number of retirements. And post COVID people have valued family time much more.