Scenic Line Rolling Stock

[Neptune]

In mountainous areas it's often out and up, but I find for UK purposes (given our smaller mountains) that tapered bodysides as found on e.g. classes 158, 170 and 22x provide well enough for that.

Yes I don’t think there’s anywhere in the uk that really needs roof windows!

If there was a proposal to life extend 158’s to specifically work scenic lines in years to come then they would be ideal with some proper work done on them. I’d actually like to see the hybrid MTU pack installed on them for a start off to bring them a bit more up to date. Then there‘s the air con (I think you suggested the excellent system in the Chiltern 165’s which has always been spot on when I’ve travelled on them), they could look at the old W&B layout internally with 10 tables per coach rather than 8 and larger luggage stacks but then a solution would be needed for cycle provision as the 158’s are pretty inadequate in this area.

To be fair I think there’s little to no chance of a small amount of ‘scenic trains’ being built or modified much into the future. Most stock used on scenic lines needs to be adequate for other services too. Small fleets of stock for specific routes isn’t particularly cost effective.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To be fair I think there’s little to no chance of a small amount of ‘scenic trains’ being built or modified much into the future. Most stock used on scenic lines needs to be adequate for other services too. Small fleets of stock for specific routes isn’t particularly cost effective.

That really depends, particularly given that special stock can attract more custom. If there is commonality of maintenance (e.g. you modify 15x on a TOC that already has 15x, or you buy from CAF in a TOC that already has CAF units, say) and you can substitute a "regular" unit if you absolutely need to, then it isn't going to be that bad and could be an overall benefit.

Microfleets can be bad, but aren't necessarily.

 

[Neptune]

That really depends, particularly given that special stock can attract more custom. If there is commonality of maintenance (e.g. you modify 15x on a TOC that already has 15x, or you buy from CAF in a TOC that already has CAF units, say) and you can substitute a "regular" unit if you absolutely need to, then it isn't going to be that bad and could be an overall benefit.

Microfleets can be bad, but aren't necessarily.

Should the 15x fleet be replaced on Northern as has been the rumour not just on here but elsewhere (sorry can’t divulge that bit) then the opportunity to retain a small 158 fleet to operate scenic routes (thinking S&C, Bentham line, Cumbrian Coast as they can be interlinked at Carlisle & Lancaster) with modern modifications (hybrid drive etc…) would get my vote. The 3 car 158’s could have a decent cycle storage space fitted in the MS (not taking up most of the coach like on the SR 153’s though, maybe 10 spaces would be adequate).

As the engine used in the hybrid 168 is similar to that in the 195 with the same gearbox that gets around commonality of parts issues should it be fitted to the 158’s.

 

[Clansman]

Scotrail have modified some class 158s with better aligned seats and more tables for scenic lines which with there end doors give a much better view out. They have also added a 153 to trains on the Wesf Highland modified for bikers hikers etc. These would be ideal for the S and C etc.
For the ultimare scenic experience you cant beat a mk1 carrage with its picture frame windows.
K

Sadly this isn't true. The seating plan has gotten slightly worse during refurbishment, and has not transpired into anything that indicates that any scenic provision was carried out other than an additional luggage rack on the Corkerhill sets during refurbishment, additional seat padding. and plug sockets/usb provisions. The Inverness sets have remained the same layout since their refurbishment during the First days.

In all fairness the Inverness 158s don't need anything done to them, other than one bay in one of the coaches realigned with a window after being moved central to a divider for some reason during refurbishment to the saltire moquettes.

 

[_SHR_]

TFW's 158s on the Cambrian lines are very good. Seats nicely aligned with the large windows.

 

[Meerkat]

The Scottish scenic lines are down for probably getting hydrogen trains, so they are going to be pretty specific builds anyway - may as well make them tourist trains.
Just don’t put panorama windows in with blinds or the grumpy locals will close them (happened to my parents on an Italian scenic line!).

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Should the 15x fleet be replaced on Northern as has been the rumour not just on here but elsewhere (sorry can’t divulge that bit) then the opportunity to retain a small 158 fleet to operate scenic routes (thinking S&C, Bentham line, Cumbrian Coast as they can be interlinked at Carlisle & Lancaster) with modern modifications (hybrid drive etc…) would get my vote. The 3 car 158’s could have a decent cycle storage space fitted in the MS (not taking up most of the coach like on the SR 153’s though, maybe 10 spaces would be adequate).

As the engine used in the hybrid 168 is similar to that in the 195 with the same gearbox that gets around commonality of parts issues should it be fitted to the 158’s.

Better to have the cycle spaces at one end rather than slap bang in the middle of the unit.

 

[Envoy]

The Scottish scenic lines are down for probably getting hydrogen trains, so they are going to be pretty specific builds anyway - may as well make them tourist trains.
Just don’t put panorama windows in with blinds or the grumpy locals will close them (happened to my parents on an Italian scenic line!).

I nabbed a window seat on a train with blinds which was on the sunny - south facing side. A guy came to sit opposite & was about to get out his computer. Fearing that he would then pull down the blind I suggested that he take the aisle seat across the way on the shady north facing side of the train - which he duly did. You would think that people who just want to look at screens would have the sense to sit on the shady side of the train as sunlight will ‘wash out’ the image.

 

[Dougal2345]

The Scottish scenic lines are down for probably getting hydrogen trains, so they are going to be pretty specific builds anyway - may as well make them tourist trains.
Just don’t put panorama windows in with blinds or the grumpy locals will close them (happened to my parents on an Italian scenic line!).

It's Scotland though, so sunshine is rarely going to be a problem!

I think there is more to a tourist train than big windows... Noise is a big issue too - for me, when I'm riding in a 158, escaping from the dreadful racket at the end of the journey is always more pleasurable than looking at pretty landscapes during it.

I sometimes watch Japan Railway Journal and they seem to give the impression that every line has its own "microclass" tailored for it, often with tourists in mind... If they can do it...

 

[Bill57p9]

I think there is more to a tourist train than big windows... Noise is a big issue too - for me, when I'm riding in a 158, escaping from the dreadful racket at the end of the journey is always more pleasurable than looking at pretty landscapes during it.

Although my preference from the current offering is the 158 I do agree that the noise is an issue. (Have you ever done the length of WHL on a 156 or HoWL on a 153? Dire)
I believe Stadler are really onto something with their FLIRT power pack design not just because of the noise reduction but also the principal of having a basic stock platform which can then be adapted to specific requirements rather than being entirely bespoke. Car manufacturers do this, often across several models/brands that look completely different.

However the power pack does consume some platform length, which would detract from the utility on some routes, such as the WHL.

I sometimes watch Japan Railway Journal and they seem to give the impression that every line has its own "microclass" tailored for it, often with tourists in mind... If they can do it...

Interesting. Do you know how much commonality they have?
Some UK TOCs have recently acquired microfleets with their eyes open: the ScotRail 153s, TPE 397s, TPE Nova 3, Caledonian Sleeper (I know this will always be a micro fleet but they chose to make it absolutely bespoke even down to needing locos specifically modified). So the business case must stack up somewhere.

Finally, maybe this is somewhere GBR make a joined up decision rather than each local operator procuring and running a fleet in complete isolation: it might be a micro fleet locally but not nationally (spares, training, etc.). Just like the sprinter & super sprinter BR programmes were.

 

[Class360/1]

From my experiences, 170’s and 755’s are good;
.they have good seats
.window aligned seats
.good passenger facilites
.big windows

 

[InOban]

but 170s aren't permitted on the WHL (not sure about North of Inverness ) It's been suggested that their bogies don't like tight bends and check rails.

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

In India they have started using these - something similar is what's needed. It doesn't show up very well in this phot but those are windows in the roof at each side, not lighting panels. ps the seats flip so face forward in both directions.

View attachment 100115

If we're looking to India for inspiration, an Indian Railways non-AC Sleeper would be my preference for truly experiencing a line, together with a relaxed attitude to sitting in the open doorway. Great for this weather but a little more difficult in the winter.

I'm kidding obviously but also I'd love to ride one.