Scarborough; TPEx reliability

[route101]

Used the line yesterday , the 1045am TPE to Scarborough was over 20 minutes late when i boarded at York .Seat reservations caused issues on boarding , is there a need on short journeys . Few people missed the connection at Seamer for the Hull service but the guard handled the situation well and told them its best to wait in Scarborough .

 

[yorkguy]

TPE have stated to the MP, Kevin Hollinrake, that when they intend to turn at Malton they will endeavour to tell passengers at York so they can wait there instead. Apparently they have pledged to improve communication with LNER staff at York, so people are advised accordingly. They also told the MP they are changing driver schedules which will reduce the circumstances where trains need to be terminated short of their destinations. In the meantime I was on today’s 16.08 into Malton which was 20 minutes late

 

[AndrewE]

"In the meantime I was on today’s 16.08 into Malton which was 20 minutes late" At least it went through... it looks as though they are learning: looks like only 2 cancellations today, thank goodness (1411 to Scarboro and 1511 to York) and others up to 30 mins late.

 

[mike57]

In the meantime I was on today’s 16.08 into Malton which was 20 minutes late

And passengers for Filey & Brid will have missed the 16:30 at Seamer. When I arrived in Scarborough for the 17:58 down the coast it was showing nearly an hour late arriving, so passengers who hoped to be in Brid at 5:00 will not be arriving until around 7:30. I got the bus to Filey and Mrs picked me up there.

 

[josh-j]

Not a Scarborough train but very much related I think:

I just witnessed the Marsden stopper delayed by two or three minutes as passengers continued to slowly arrive at Piccadilly even though the train was already due to leave. The train only just finished loading the passengers already waiting due to the tight turnaround and late arrival however doors were closed and the train ready to leave right on time at 11:17. It ended up leaving late due to the dispatcher allowing the late people on (he did hurry them up a lot with shouting and waving).

Although nice for those few passengers, is this the best thing to be doing when small delays end up messing up all the other services on this route - and now that there isn't much scope for catching up?

 

[nr758123]

Although from past experience when the Leeds-Piccadilly stopper has been delayed it has turned short so I suppose with the new way there's a chance the return journey will run as scheduled.

Can you clarify what you mean by the "new way" please? As far as I can see the stoppers between Piccadilly and Leeds/Hull are still affected by a combination of stations stops being missed, services being terminated//started short at Stalybridge and cancellations. I don't see that anything has changed, but there may be something I have missed.

 

[30907]

I just witnessed the Marsden stopper delayed by two or three minutes as passengers continued to slowly arrive at Piccadilly even though the train was already due to leave. The train only just finished loading the passengers already waiting due to the tight turnaround and late arrival however doors were closed and the train ready to leave right on time at 11:17. It ended up leaving late due to the dispatcher allowing the late people on (he did hurry them up a lot with shouting and waving).

Always a problem if the TPE is at the outer end of the platform as in this case (says RTT).

 

[scarby]

TPE have stated to the MP, Kevin Hollinrake, that when they intend to turn at Malton they will endeavour to tell passengers at York so they can wait there instead. Apparently they have pledged to improve communication with LNER staff at York, so people are advised accordingly. They also told the MP they are changing driver schedules which will reduce the circumstances where trains need to be terminated short of their destinations. In the meantime I was on today’s 16.08 into Malton which was 20 minutes late

How about if they just ran the trains on time instead?

 

[yorkguy]

How about if they just ran the trains on time instead?

Nah, that’d be way too simple a solution. It’ll never catch on

 

[daikilo]

How about if they just ran the trains on time instead?

I am sure they would love to. Apart from the odd "waiting for traincrew" or "points failure" many delays are genuinely caused by congestion. Having spent some time over the last few weeks checking on eastbound running and identifying the actual cause of "congestion" delays, it is obvious there is no margin for any late running, particularly of any of the stoppers Stalybridge-Hud, Hud-Leeds or Leeds-York. At one point today there were 2 MAN-NCL trying to run in the same path (1 about 20 late) and both eventually stuck behind a delayed LDS-YRK stopper.

 

[Boysteve]

It is quite impressive what can be achieved on the current infrastructure when traffic allows of course. I will be travelling on this service in a couple of days so thought I would check how it ran today. Victoria to Leeds in 43.5 minutes, and a 6 minute delay was recovered. Sadly not many like it! http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y72677/2018/07/17/advanced

 

[Ploughman]

At one point today there were 2 MAN-NCL trying to run in the same path (1 about 20 late) and both eventually stuck behind a delayed LDS-YRK stopper.

Don't suppose it would have been possible to couple the 2 Newcastles together then?

 

[Kieran1990]

Hats off today- the 1731 Man Vic- Scarborough actually made it to Leeds on time tonight! First time since the timetable change and was nice to be into Leeds for 18:20 and home for 18:40!

 

[greyman42]

Don't suppose it would have been possible to couple the 2 Newcastles together then?

They would of had different stopping patterns.

 

[northernchris]

Can you clarify what you mean by the "new way" please? As far as I can see the stoppers between Piccadilly and Leeds/Hull are still affected by a combination of stations stops being missed, services being terminated//started short at Stalybridge and cancellations. I don't see that anything has changed, but there may be something I have missed.

There seems to be a bit more focus lately on ensuring trains make it to their destination rather than terminating short. Yesterday morning for example the 0653 Leeds-Manchester Piccadilly was around 40 minutes late leaving and according to the boards was calling only at Huddersfield, Stalybridge and Piccadilly.

 

[DunfordBridge]

Could someone tell me what the good citizens of Scarborough are doing about this? It seems to have been going on long enough now not to be just a blip. It seems from afar that nothing is happening

......

Maybe the police involvement at Malton with disgruntled passengers reported earlier is a hook to handle the story on?

What is this talk of police involvement at Malton station? I have not yet read all of the pages in this thread.

I personally have paid an extra £60 to cover the extra mileage I will be doing in my Rover for the weeks when I would have caught the train.

 

[nr758123]

There seems to be a bit more focus lately on ensuring trains make it to their destination rather than terminating short. Yesterday morning for example the 0653 Leeds-Manchester Piccadilly was around 40 minutes late leaving and according to the boards was calling only at Huddersfield, Stalybridge and Piccadilly.

I think you are mistaken. Terminations short at Stalybridge are still happening daily, often several times a day.

Missing stops in order to make up time is not new. That, too, has been happening regularly since the timetable change.

The specific example you give, of the stopping train between Leeds and Piccadilly calling only at the principal stations which are also served by the expresses, shows the mind-numbing stupidity of it all. The main purpose of this particular service is to get commuters from Marsden, Greenfield and Mossley into Manchester, so skipping those stations makes it close to useless.

Today has been the worst day yet since the timetable change, with 11 out of 42 trains at Slaithwaite being cancelled (have included part-cancellations in this).

TPE have had eight weeks to show that the new timetable can be workable, and it's just as bad as on day one. From a passenger point of view (and it's clear that there are some in the railway industry who see passengers as at best an irrelevance, at worst a pest), it can't go on like this and needs to be changed long before the May 2019 timetable change.

 

[B&I]

I think you are mistaken. Terminations short at Stalybridge are still happening daily, often several times a day.

Missing stops in order to make up time is not new. That, too, has been happening regularly since the timetable change.

The specific example you give, of the stopping train between Leeds and Piccadilly calling only at the principal stations which are also served by the expresses, shows the mind-numbing stupidity of it all. The main purpose of this particular service is to get commuters from Marsden, Greenfield and Mossley into Manchester, so skipping those stations makes it close to useless.

Today has been the worst day yet since the timetable change, with 11 out of 42 trains at Slaithwaite being cancelled (have included part-cancellations in this).

TPE have had eight weeks to show that the new timetable can be workable, and it's just as bad as on day one. From a passenger point of view (and it's clear that there are some in the railway industry who see passengers as at best an irrelevance, at worst a pest), it can't go on like this and needs to be changed long before the May 2019 timetable change.

Someone, somewhere needs to stand up to the government and tell them that what they are demanding is not deliverable without proper infrastructure investment

 

[Bantamzen]

Someone, somewhere needs to stand up to the government and tell them that what they are demanding is not deliverable without proper infrastructure investment

Indeed, an open letter from the operators stating & citing that they were expecting more in the way of improvements, electrification in the lifetime of the franchise might put pressure on the DafT. Mind you Grayling seems bulletproof at the moment, so maybe he'll just put the plans back to the bottom of his line tray for another few years.....

 

[mike57]

Seems to have been a worse week this week than last for Scarborough.

Cancellations have been running at about 1 per day, but timekeeping has been abysmal with 20 mins plus delays and half the connecting trains at Seamer have been missed.

 

[Darandio]

Looks like Middlesbrough really got it bad today, just had a quick look but various trains seemed to terminate at either Northallerton or Thornaby.

Wish me luck for tomorrow, our holiday starts with a TPE service from Middlesbrough.

 

[Kieran1990]

Looks like Middlesbrough really got it bad today, just had a quick look but various trains seemed to terminate at either Northallerton or Thornaby.

Wish me luck for tomorrow, our holiday starts with a TPE service from Middlesbrough.

Been shocking across the North route today, this morning saw 2 peak services in a row cancelled between York-Manchester-Apt/Liverpool. Signalling at Northallerton caused it.
This evening lots of delays, re-opening of lime street and northern re-introducing services in North West is stretching the already poor time keeping and pathing

 

[Spartacus]

Can you clarify what you mean by the "new way" please? As far as I can see the stoppers between Piccadilly and Leeds/Hull are still affected by a combination of stations stops being missed, services being terminated//started short at Stalybridge and cancellations. I don't see that anything has changed, but there may be something I have missed.

Just last week I boarded a Leeds - Pic stopper at Leeds, with boards still showing all stops, as was the TPE app, only to be informed it was running express to Huddersfield! I was onyl going to Dewsbury, so trains weren't that infrequent, but for those requiring the stations former served by the Northern stopper it must have been a kick in the teeth. It still mean a traipse over from 13 to 16 via the painfully slow lifts with a pushchair (and a brief scare of another platform change which was quickly, thankfully, corrected).

 

[mlambeuk]

Our local rag has an article about TPE York to Scarborough route, but the rag hasn't mentioned delays and cancellations.
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/164...-scarborough-theatre-goers-with-later-trains/

 

[jayah]

Someone, somewhere needs to stand up to the government and tell them that what they are demanding is not deliverable without proper infrastructure investment

Are there really 7tph traversing the Marsden route in each direction, plus freight?

They could use a better alignment but the real change needs to be in rediscovering the fact railways are effective at moving large payloads on big trains.

Saturating the network with micro-trains and demanding ££m of taxpayers money to clear up the resulting mess is a disease on this railway right now.

 

[Boysteve]

Are there really 7tph traversing the Marsden route in each direction, plus freight?.

Well 6tph off peak + any freight, although 7tph in the peak. The timetable would be more robust if we had 4 fasts/hour with gaps 10/20/10/20 minutes. There would be ample time for a proper all stations stopper or any freight within the 20 minute gaps. In the peak time half hourly stoppers with zero freight of course.

 

[jayah]

Well 6tph off peak + any freight, although 7tph in the peak. The timetable would be more robust if we had 4 fasts/hour with gaps 10/20/10/20 minutes. There would be ample time for a proper all stations stopper or any freight within the 20 minute gaps. In the peak time half hourly stoppers with zero freight of course.

Between 1700-1800 at Marsden yesterday I make 6 express timetabled to be going west, one local stopper from HUD-MAN and a freight, that ran too.

 

[cactustwirly]

Well 6tph off peak + any freight, although 7tph in the peak. The timetable would be more robust if we had 4 fasts/hour with gaps 10/20/10/20 minutes. There would be ample time for a proper all stations stopper or any freight within the 20 minute gaps. In the peak time half hourly stoppers with zero freight of course.

But that's an awful service pattern.
The whole idea of 6tph is to provide an even service and increase the capacity.

 

[yorksrob]

But that's an awful service pattern.
The whole idea of 6tph is to provide an even service and increase the capacity.

I'd say that provided the four express trains were long enough, that would be a perfectly decent service pattern.

I'm not sure there's much freight on the route, so I'd have a half hourly stopper.

 

[jayah]

I'd say that provided the four express trains were long enough, that would be a perfectly decent service pattern.

I'm not sure there's much freight on the route, so I'd have a half hourly stopper.

It is the local stops that eat away capacity. There aren't many freight paths but enough you would need the timetable in the hours they run, to apply through the off peak.

Having a freight path in the middle of the evening peak doesn't look too clever at is would prevent a 4+2 peak timetable if 2 locals were possible.